Rhythm

[berlowmj]

For me, one of the most useful comments on this forum was the suggestion that the practice strokes should be at the same velocity as the stroke when the trigger is pulled. I confirmed it by watching the masters on youtube & only looking at their stroke.

When I slowed my practice strokes, I found that they had been erratic & poking. The number of practice strokes was also drastically reduced. I went from counting 3 strokes to a subsconcious 3-5.

This all moved me to a higher level.

Now my attention has turned to my eye movement between CB & OB. When I pause after feeling comfortable with the practice strokes, I find that my eyes move from CB to OB & back to CB & then focus on OB before pulling the trigger.

I feel like my next step should be to eliminate some eye movements & try to pause, move my focus to the OB & fire.

Commentary welcome.

 

[sixpack]

For me, one of the most useful comments on this forum was the suggestion that the practice strokes should be at the same velocity as the stroke when the trigger is pulled. I confirmed it by watching the masters on youtube & only looking at their stroke.

When I slowed my practice strokes, I found that they had been erratic & poking. The number of practice strokes was also drastically reduced. I went from counting 3 strokes to a subsconcious 3-5.

This all moved me to a higher level.

Now my attention has turned to my eye movement between CB & OB. When I pause after feeling comfortable with the practice strokes, I find that my eyes move from CB to OB & back to CB & then focus on OB before pulling the trigger.

I feel like my next step should be to eliminate some eye movements & try to pause, move my focus to the OB & fire.

Commentary welcome.

The pause is a matter of some differing opinions. I know great players who say you 'have' to have it, and I know others that say it's destructive. I've played both with a pause and without. When I played without, I made sure my rhythm on my practice swings and my shot swing were the same, in fact I counted to make sure. People thought I really looked smooth, but I didn't notice a difference either way.

Once when I was aping a good player in Denver who takes 20-30 practice strokes before he hits, I found that mimicking his strokes helped me shoot REALLY good...so long as I used the practice strokes purposefully. That is every time I swung I mentally acknowledged whether or not it was the right stroke. By doing that, I mentally had hit the shot correctly several times before I actually hit it. I Made everything. I use this concept today and in fact, started using it in golf to GREAT advantage.

In golf, if most people were to hit three shots to a target. Say chip shots. They would hit one long, one short and one right up there. It's so accepted by people that they just expect it. That's one reason why everyone hits the second ball better when they drop a ball after hitting a bad shot.

Using the same methodology as pool, I mentally envision the three shots on my practice swings and then pick the best shot and hit it. You'd be surprised how well this works. It allowed me to shoot a 5-under 31 on the back nine of my home course. I used it for every shot (putting too) and only needed 11 putts to play 9 holes.

Then I took a job and went back to work, but what I learned about preconception is magical. Tiger and Jack Nicklaus both do something similar.

I know it's a little different from what you were talking about, but I hope it helps.

Cheers,
RC

 

[PKM]

I haven't seen too many pros that have practice strokes the same speed as their stroke. I was just watching Charlie Williams on propoolvideo, his are pretty fast but certainly not on all of his shots.

 

[arsenius]

I also found it very helpful to make sure my practice strokes were the same speed as my final stroke. Also, mentally rehearsing really made a difference in my game. Everything is easier when you've done it once already!

Sixpack, I think that idea is fantastic. Picking the best of 3 mentally rehearsed strokes is a really neat idea!

 

[sixpack]

I also found it very helpful to make sure my practice strokes were the same speed as my final stroke. Also, mentally rehearsing really made a difference in my game. Everything is easier when you've done it once already!

Sixpack, I think that idea is fantastic. Picking the best of 3 mentally rehearsed strokes is a really neat idea!

Let me know how it works. I bet if you try it you'll be amazed at the results.

Everybody who reads this forum is experienced enough to know by feel where the stroke is going to take the CB & OB if they let their mind feel it. If they allow themselves to follow to the imaginary conclusion of the shot, they'll know whether or not it's 'correct'.

The month I figured that out was unfortunately the last month I had to play golf every day. But that month I played every day and never shot over 75. I was a 7 handicap. And I had the 31 on the back nine and several 18's under par.

Cheers,
RC

 

[DelaWho???]

Bouncing eyes will destroy a good shot. Studies have shown increased accuracy with less eye movement.

Scott Lee says everyone has a pause in their stroke, some more pronounced than others. I think if you are taking notice of your pause and how long it is, it becomes exagerated because you are focused on it. The pause is nothing more than the transition from backswing to shot. It should be smooth and natural, something thats in the background, like blinking your eyes, you just do it.

Banger

 

[randyg]

Bouncing eyes will destroy a good shot. Studies have shown increased accuracy with less eye movement.

Scott Lee says everyone has a pause in their stroke, some more pronounced than others. I think if you are taking notice of your pause and how long it is, it becomes exagerated because you are focused on it. The pause is nothing more than the transition from backswing to shot. It should be smooth and natural, something thats in the background, like blinking your eyes, you just do it.

Banger

TAP-TAP-TAP....SPF=randyg

 

[randyg]

For me, one of the most useful comments on this forum was the suggestion that the practice strokes should be at the same velocity as the stroke when the trigger is pulled. I confirmed it by watching the masters on youtube & only looking at their stroke.

When I slowed my practice strokes, I found that they had been erratic & poking. The number of practice strokes was also drastically reduced. I went from counting 3 strokes to a subsconcious 3-5.

This all moved me to a higher level.

Now my attention has turned to my eye movement between CB & OB. When I pause after feeling comfortable with the practice strokes, I find that my eyes move from CB to OB & back to CB & then focus on OB before pulling the trigger.

I feel like my next step should be to eliminate some eye movements & try to pause, move my focus to the OB & fire.

Commentary welcome.

Sounds great but dosen't work that way. Just to prove a small issue. Make your backstroke the same speed as your forward stoke on the break......SPF=randyg

 

[mikepage]

Bouncing eyes will destroy a good shot. Studies have shown increased accuracy with less eye movement.

Scott Lee says everyone has a pause in their stroke, some more pronounced than others. I think if you are taking notice of your pause and how long it is, it becomes exagerated because you are focused on it. The pause is nothing more than the transition from backswing to shot. It should be smooth and natural, something thats in the background, like blinking your eyes, you just do it.

Banger

It is not true that everyone has a pause in their stroke. Many good players have a nice slow steady consistent transition between drawing the cue back and forward motion that incorporates no pause at all. A pause is not merely the transition between back and forward motion. It requires that you take a cue and an arm that under no influence want to fall down under the influence of gravity and exert a force that holds them still for a period of time in the pulled back position. A pause like Buddy Hall has is fundamentally different from no pause like the Miz had.

It would not be correct to view the Miz's stroke as like Buddy's but with the length of the pause shortened to zero. There's a fundamental difference between pause and no pause.

Obviously champions can develop with or without a pause.

 

[berlowmj]

powerful example

Sounds great but dosen't work that way. Just to prove a small issue. Make your backstroke the same speed as your forward stoke on the break......SPF=randyg

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I slowed the practice strokes, relaxed, increased fluidity, got in touch with my chi energy, & moved the practice strokes to my subconcious level.

Now I need to do the same for my eye movements. I am feeling some tension in my neck. Bad sign.

Controlled studies have shown the value of mental rehearsal.

Perhaps Hamlet was misquoted & really said, "To pause or not to pause."

As always, A-Z er wisdom & discourse is extraordinarily profound & helpful.

Thank you!!!!

 

[mattman]

Are you talking about the pause before or after your backstroke? I took it as the pause before the backstroke.

 

[radge69]

Everyone has a pause when they transition between backstroke and forward. Even if the eye can't see it, it's there. It's impossible to go back and then forward without some type of pause, even if it's brief where you don't notice it. If you watch a stroke in slow motion, you can see the pause at the transition between the two. JMHO

 

[mikepage]

Are you talking about the pause before or after your backstroke? I took it as the pause before the backstroke.

I'm not sure who you're responding to. I am talking about a pause or lack of pause between the end of the backstroke and the beginning of the final forward stroke.

 

[cubc]

I have no pause on my backstroke. I pause before i take the last final "swing" but not on the backstroke. Like when I'm aiming where I want to hit the cue ball i know when I'm going to execute the shot I'll pause by the spot i want to hit the cue ball then in one fluid motion i pull back and 'fire' in a very fluid stroke.

Also I dont stroke the speed I'm going to hit it... I actually just visualize what's going to happen before it happens then I just do it and it works. When I'm stroking I make sure I can visualize the line the ball is going to travel perfectly and then see where it's going to end up based on the english i want to put on it. When all of that is set I shoot.

Overall I take maybe 4 strokes and fire.

The pause on the backstroke is just weird logically to me. The game is about finesse and control. Theres muscles in your arm which creates a slingshot action when you shoot. If you stop when you go back before you go forward again in your stroke you're cancelling that out and that's a huge level of control for me.

Just like when you're breaking you shouldnt pause on the backstroke because it kills most of the power. Just like if you break with a tight wrist. You're cancelling out a lot of things that give extra power.

The same thing is on a stroke in my opinion. You can do more if you dont pause between the back and forward motion with much less effort.

That's how I perceive it and it's also improved a lot of peoples control that I've helped before that way too.

 

[berlowmj]

pause and...

Are you talking about the pause before or after your backstroke? I took it as the pause before the backstroke.

I have been referring to a pause between the completion of the practice strokes and "pulling the trigger" which I took for granted incorporates a back stroke & is distinguished from the practice strokes by including a follow through the CB.

I originally stated that thanks to previous feedback from another thread, I have slowed my practice strokes, thereby reducing the number, eliminating choppy & erratic components & incorporated them at a subconcious level & made significant improvement.

NOW that we have that settled, could someone please share your insights on the 2nd part of my question which involves the eye movement between the CB & OB. I feel some tension in my neck during the eye movement stage & take that as a bad sign. I'm thinking that I should reduce the number of eye movements between practice strokes & "pulling the trigger,"
& merely pause, make one eye movement from the CB to focus on the OB & "pull the trigger."

I don't mean to excessively pick your brains, but I have found that A-Z er
insights & discourse significantly reduce my learning curve & contribute to my progress.

Thank you!!!!

 

[RBLilly]

It is not true that everyone has a pause in their stroke. Many good players have a nice slow steady consistent transition between drawing the cue back and forward motion that incorporates no pause at all. A pause is not merely the transition between back and forward motion. It requires that you take a cue and an arm that under no influence want to fall down under the influence of gravity and exert a force that holds them still for a period of time in the pulled back position. A pause like Buddy Hall has is fundamentally different from no pause like the Miz had.

It would not be correct to view the Miz's stroke as like Buddy's but with the length of the pause shortened to zero. There's a fundamental difference between pause and no pause.

Obviously champions can develop with or without a pause.

They still have a pause whether you choose to believe it or not. You cannot draw a cue back without pausing before bringing the cue forward. It is scientific law. An object in motion wants to stay in motion. When you bring it back that cue wants to continue to go backwards. You have to stop it before bringing it forward. It may be true that some people have a very quick pause, but the pause is still there. If you didn't pause the cue would continue to go backwards and out of your hand!

 

[mikepage]

They still have a pause whether you choose to believe it or not. You cannot draw a cue back without pausing before bringing the cue forward. It is scientific law. An object in motion wants to stay in motion. When you bring it back that cue wants to continue to go backwards. You have to stop it before bringing it forward. It may be true that some people have a very quick pause, but the pause is still there. If you didn't pause the cue would continue to go backwards and out of your hand!

No, this is false.

You and/or gravity have to give the cue a forward force that slows it down, sends it's velocity right through zero, and accelerates it forward. The velocity going through zero is not a pause, though I can see this is a common misconception.

For a pause, there has to be no force on the cue. At the end of the backstroke, there is always a gravitational force on the cue. A pause requires your muscles balance the gravitational force. That's what Buddy Hall does, balances the gravitational force with his muscles for a time at the end of the backswing.

 

[Kevin]

I haven't seen too many pros that have practice strokes the same speed as their stroke. I was just watching Charlie Williams on propoolvideo, his are pretty fast but certainly not on all of his shots.

Off topic and I apologize for it, but I played Charlie once and he seems to like warming up with his early match shots at warp-speed tear the pocket off the table power, just to see if his stroke and aim is on or to terrify the opposition. Haven't worked out yet which is his primary intent, but it is intimidating nonetheless.

I haven't much to add here except, do whatever it takes before (pre-shot routine) to where when you get down on the shot you know where all balls are going and CB ends up, then execute smoothly. Observe after. Then let that one go and try again. Wash, rinse, repeat (like my shampoo says). Works for me when it does. When it doesn't it is simply brain farts.

 

[kildegirl]

Eye Movements Versus P0cketing Balls

For me, one of the most useful comments on this forum was the suggestion that the practice strokes should be at the same velocity as the stroke when the trigger is pulled. I confirmed it by watching the masters on youtube & only looking at their stroke.

When I slowed my practice strokes, I found that they had been erratic & poking. The number of practice strokes was also drastically reduced. I went from counting 3 strokes to a subsconcious 3-5.

This all moved me to a higher level.

Now my attention has turned to my eye movement between CB & OB. When I pause after feeling comfortable with the practice strokes, I find that my eyes move from CB to OB & back to CB & then focus on OB before pulling the trigger.

I feel like my next step should be to eliminate some eye movements & try to pause, move my focus to the OB & fire.

Commentary welcome.

I would think that your focus should be accurate aiming, as that is paramount in improving your game. Eye movements do not pocket balls.

 

[Kevin]

Great quote

Perhaps Hamlet was misquoted & really said, "To pause or not to pause."

That is the question. And not so far-fetched. Our great sport was played in the Bard's time (1620), in publik rooms, for $$. And so, let us off to billiards!