robert frost and eric densen innocent of all charges...

Let me go back to the found wallet story. I think it matters a lot how much I have into it, here is why:

Assume I find a wallet in street and realize its lost/stolen. I will give it back for free as I have nothing into it.

Now lets say I buy a nice used designer wallet for $50 at a flea market. I then realize its stolen. I want to give it back to the proper owner, but at the same time I want to be made whole too, or to get my $50 back. So I probably would ask the true owner for the $50......that doesnt automatically make me a jerk.
 
I have NO dog in this whole scenario but I wish that Robert Frost had just left this thread were it was and had not revived it to let all know about the court decision. The whole mess would have been better off private and not brought up here regardless of who is right and who is wrong. JMO..
 
It simply amazes me that people don't get the concept that if you unknowingly buy stolen property, you don't own it.

The original owner is under no obligation to cover your losses.

There is no wiggle room on this, there is no grey area. The right thing to do is to give it back and suck up your losses.

The only person you should be going after to get your losses back is the person that sold ( or gave it to you in lue of a gambling debt) you the stolen property in the first place.

Forget about asking what Jesus would do, I doubt anybody that doesn't get this would know, ask what your mother would make you do.
 
Scott Lee said:
master_cueist...You're new here, so we'll cut you a little slack...this time. Williebetmore probably has shoes older than you! LOL :D Add to that, he is one of the most respected posters on this site, and very knowledgeable on a wide variety of topic...but especially anything pool! You can be pretty certain that police depts were not always "hard wired to the local police department"...and we're likely talking about at least 40-50 years ago (depending on how old WBM was talking about in his post). Lastly, a poolplayer's first decent cue is a treasured item (mine wasn't that expensive, but I still have it, 40 yrs later). Losing it in that manner was a traumatic experience. Let's just leave it at that, and be grateful that nowadays pawn shops are better regulated, regarding stolen property. :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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It doesn't matter how respected he is or how much he knows about pool. My post had NOTHING to do with the actual game of pool, its my knowledge of pawn shops that I was talking about and it doesn't matter if it was 100 years ago, if you go to the police station and file a police report with a detailed description of your stolen item the police STILL went around and checked pawn shops back then because of the chances of stolen items. Then, when they do find it, they will go and require the pawn shop to show them the pawn ticket on that item, then they will contact the person and question them about how and when they got it, if their story doesn't make sense, and the person who filed the report does give a legit story and can prove it and has an aliby, which if it was a prize cue I am sure that other people had seen him shooting with it or people that knows he has it. When he can provide that and the person who pawned it can't there is no way in hell the police would take the side of the person who pawned it over the guy who provides people, evidence, and a legit story about that being his cue. There are tons and tons of things that they do when it comes to stolen items, all it takes is the person who owned it to actually take the time and the steps to follow them down.
 
supergreenman said:
It simply amazes me that people don't get the concept that if you unknowingly buy stolen property, you don't own it.

There is no wiggle room on this, there is no grey area. The right thing to do is to give it back and suck up your losses.

Forget about asking what Jesus would do, I doubt anybody that doesn't get this would know, ask what your mother would make you do.
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OK, I will agree the honorable thing to do is return it and suck up the losses.
 
Here's my 2 cent:

I had 3 paragraphs wrote out,,and deleted them,,,thought to myself. How can I say all that.

I don't know what the hell happened between these two,,or between them and police,,or how or what was bought /sold/ traded??

LMAO Don't buy stolen property!!!!! LMAO (you might end up bleeding on a public forum)
 
michael4 said:
OK, I will agree the honorable thing to do is return it and suck up the losses.
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While I agree with both statements here..

I also don't think that it is "Dishonorable" to attempt to see if you could possibly recoup some of your losses when offered a reward.

The intentions have to be true though, so this has to be understood that this scenario is considering both of these guys have perfect character and the intent was to give the stick back anyways, regardless.

First guy calls to give stick back

2nd guy offers a reward

First guy says, could I possibly get a bit more? I invested a lot of time to find you, and I am out some considerable amount of money. (Now, you need to understand he has every intention of returning the cue regardless, he is just throwing out a question, any answer is fine in his eyes, but he just wants to check.)

This doesn't make him a bad person, nor does it make him wrong. In this situation, he had every intention of returning the cue regardless, but just asked if he could possibly recoup some of his losses for his time and the money he had invested in them. This is not beyond reasonable, not one bit. Especially if he can accept No, and just move on.. (Like we are assuming in this scenario, remember.. perfect character.)

So.. once again, it all boils down to.. who the hell knows? Because we weren't there.. but there are instances, where I don't feel like it is out of line to discuss amounts of money, atleast in my eyes. I wouldn't be offended if someone brought it to me that way, and I wouldn't be offended if someone turned it down when offering it.
 
LoVe4DaGaMe said:
While I agree with both statements here..

I also don't think that it is "Dishonorable" to attempt to see if you could possibly recoup some of your losses when offered a reward.

The intentions have to be true though, so this has to be understood that this scenario is considering both of these guys have perfect character and the intent was to give the stick back anyways, regardless.

First guy calls to give stick back

2nd guy offers a reward

First guy says, could I possibly get a bit more? I invested a lot of time to find you, and I am out some considerable amount of money. (Now, you need to understand he has every intention of returning the cue regardless, he is just throwing out a question, any answer is fine in his eyes, but he just wants to check.)

This doesn't make him a bad person, nor does it make him wrong. In this situation, he had every intention of returning the cue regardless, but just asked if he could possibly recoup some of his losses for his time and the money he had invested in them. This is not beyond reasonable, not one bit. Especially if he can accept No, and just move on.. (Like we are assuming in this scenario, remember.. perfect character.)

So.. once again, it all boils down to.. who the hell knows? Because we weren't there.. but there are instances, where I don't feel like it is out of line to discuss amounts of money, atleast in my eyes. I wouldn't be offended if someone brought it to me that way, and I wouldn't be offended if someone turned it down when offering it.
Click to expand...

Excuse me. First guys calls to sell the sticks back. There was never an offer to give the cues to Bill (outside of the police who did it promptly).
 
LoVe4DaGaMe said:
While I agree with both statements here..

I also don't think that it is "Dishonorable" to attempt to see if you could possibly recoup some of your losses when offered a reward.

The intentions have to be true though, so this has to be understood that this scenario is considering both of these guys have perfect character and the intent was to give the stick back anyways, regardless.

First guy calls to give stick back

2nd guy offers a reward

First guy says, could I possibly get a bit more? I invested a lot of time to find you, and I am out some considerable amount of money. (Now, you need to understand he has every intention of returning the cue regardless, he is just throwing out a question, any answer is fine in his eyes, but he just wants to check.)

This doesn't make him a bad person, nor does it make him wrong. In this situation, he had every intention of returning the cue regardless, but just asked if he could possibly recoup some of his losses for his time and the money he had invested in them. This is not beyond reasonable, not one bit. Especially if he can accept No, and just move on.. (Like we are assuming in this scenario, remember.. perfect character.)

So.. once again, it all boils down to.. who the hell knows? Because we weren't there.. but there are instances, where I don't feel like it is out of line to discuss amounts of money, atleast in my eyes. I wouldn't be offended if someone brought it to me that way, and I wouldn't be offended if someone turned it down when offering it.
Click to expand...

How are you 'recouping " some of your losses by selling another party his stolen property back?
 
RobertFrost said:
i think it is funny listening to a bunch of league players try to put this story together....the point is a judge read and listened to the story and found me innocent....but I'm sure you know more than him from sitting in front of your computer...can any of you draw your ball? if so let's play some....
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whoa there with the league players i have not posted in this thread because i wasnt there for all the supposed actions of the involved parties and therefore can not have a valid opinion one way or the other. That said i would bet there are league supporters and league bashers on both sides of this. I am just tired of the term league player being used as a slur.
I play in leagues i play open tournaments and pro am events because i enjoy pool and challenges. Not all leagues players are bangers and not all money players are as good as they think they are.
just my $.02
 
love4dagame that is exactly what happened....i found out they were stolen....i called bill told him how i came about them he offered a500 reward per cue....1000 total..so since he offered 1000 i didn't think it would hurt to ask for two since that was close to what i had invested...he responded immediately that he had to get a few checks cashed but it shouldn't be a problem and he would met me at davey ks....if he had said no then we wouldn't be here now...he was always getting the cues back even before he offered money....he offered not me....i guess he thought they were being ransomed but they were not...i understand now that he had had this happen befOre...but i am not them...my name is not port huron bill...(the original thief) according to mr grassley.
 
RobertFrost said:
love4dagame that is exactly what happened....i found out they were stolen....i called bill told him how i came about them he offered a500 reward per cue....1000 total..so since he offered 1000 i didn't think it would hurt to ask for two since that was close to what i had invested...he responded immediately that he had to get a few checks cashed but it shouldn't be a problem and he would met me at davey ks....if he had said no then we wouldn't be here now...he was always getting the cues back even before he offered money....he offered not me....i guess he thought they were being ransomed but they were not...i understand now that he had had this happen befOre...but i am not them...my name is not port huron bill...(the original thief) according to mr grassley.
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dude seriously? the above bold really makes you look bad!! lol if it was me i would have given the guy back his cue's for free and go hunt down the other dude.
 
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champ2107 said:
dude seriously? the above bold really makes you look bad!! lol if it was me i would have given the guy back his cue's for free and go hunt down the other dude.
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Sometimes its best to not go hunt down "the other dude".....
 
I'm liable to get flamed or red-repped for this, but please understand that I'm not condoning anyone "ransoming" stolen property...

All I'm suggesting is that, hypothetically, if I were in possession of stolen merchandise, given to me to settle a debt, I might have made mention of the amount that the merchandise was in lieu of. And that's all.

That being said, I would not have EXPECTED any more reward money than what was offered (frankly, I would not have expected ANY money, but that's a different discussion).
Maybe the value of the cues would have made the owner suggest a higher compensation for my loss. But I would have NOT tried to "extort" monies from the owner.

Doesn't matter how I type it or what disclaimer I add, though... I'm sure someone will be along shortly to pick this post apart.

I'm not taking sides, all I'm suggesting is that the scenario may have played out many different ways. And only the parties involved know what really happened...
 
RobertFrost said:
love4dagame that is exactly what happened....i found out they were stolen....i called bill told him how i came about them he offered a500 reward per cue....1000 total..so since he offered 1000 i didn't think it would hurt to ask for two since that was close to what i had invested...he responded immediately that he had to get a few checks cashed but it shouldn't be a problem and he would met me at davey ks....if he had said no then we wouldn't be here now...he was always getting the cues back even before he offered money....he offered not me....i guess he thought they were being ransomed but they were not...i understand now that he had had this happen befOre...but i am not them...my name is not port huron bill...(the original thief) according to mr grassley.
Click to expand...

The last line say's it all....[the original thief], wouldn't that imply a second?
 
RobertFrost said:
i think it is funny listening to a bunch of league players try to put this story together....the point is a judge read and listened to the story and found me innocent....but I'm sure you know more than him from sitting in front of your computer...can any of you draw your ball? if so let's play some....
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Although I don't enjoy gambling. I have done a lot of cue deals, and I have been in a similar situation.
I understand what happened, and although you were just trying to recoup your money, anyone dealing
in cues knows, or has a good idea when a cue is stolen.
I know guys that are far lower in stature than a league player who know a stolen cue when they see one.
Did you really think that the cops weren't going to be brought into this?
What did you expect Bill Grassley to do?
Even a league player would know that the cops would be brought into this and you can't judge Bill Grassley
unless you've been in this situation.
Most people would of said anything to get these cues back, so I don't blame Bill, they were his cues.
Buying stolen equipment is illegal, even if you are totally naive and living under a rock.
Good for you that the judge ruled in your favor, I hate cops (that's a lot coming from a league player) but
you got a little lucky, and regardless what you say on a public forum, you had to learn a lesson on this one.

Besides all that, the most important thing here it to assure you that I can execute the highly difficult draw shot at least 98 times out of 100...:smile:
 
RobertFrost said:
love4dagame that is exactly what happened....i found out they were stolen....i called bill told him how i came about them he offered a500 reward per cue....1000 total..so since he offered 1000 i didn't think it would hurt to ask for two since that was close to what i had invested...he responded immediately that he had to get a few checks cashed but it shouldn't be a problem and he would met me at davey ks....if he had said no then we wouldn't be here now...he was always getting the cues back even before he offered money....he offered not me....i guess he thought they were being ransomed but they were not...i understand now that he had had this happen befOre...but i am not them...my name is not port huron bill...(the original thief) according to mr grassley.
Click to expand...

What you had invested? Pardon me, but I thought you took the cues as payment for a gambling debt.

You obviously won the bet therefor no money left your pocket. You invested nothing but the time it took to beat the guy that air-barrelled you.
 
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