robert frost and eric densen innocent of all charges...

RobertFrost said:
love4dagame that is exactly what happened....i found out they were stolen....i called bill told him how i came about them he offered a500 reward per cue....1000 total..so since he offered 1000 i didn't think it would hurt to ask for two since that was close to what i had invested...he responded immediately that he had to get a few checks cashed but it shouldn't be a problem and he would met me at davey ks....if he had said no then we wouldn't be here now...he was always getting the cues back even before he offered money....he offered not me....i guess he thought they were being ransomed but they were not...i understand now that he had had this happen befOre...but i am not them...my name is not port huron bill...(the original thief) according to mr grassley.
Click to expand...

Didn't think it would hurt?

Did you ever consider Bill's position? $11,000 in cues where he probably had about $8500 in them and looking at giving you another $1000 for the promised reward. Then you squeeze him however gently in your mind for another $1000 and he has to travel to get the cues back.

If it were me I'd say anything at that point to get you to show up with my cues.

I mean really come on dude? You KNOW you are holding stolen property. The guy who gave them to is a lowlife who pawned them off on you after air barreling you and you then COMPOUND the situation by "asking" the owner to double his reward and you didn't think it would hurt?

WTF????

I hope sincerely that you are someday in the exact same situation. I have had cues stolen from me and I know how it feels.

Why don't you man up an apologize to Bill, apologize to your girl, apologize to this forum, and apologize to your God?

It's a super simple thing here, you knew the cues were stolen property the moment you looked them up on the internet. Everything BUT getting the cues back to him free of charge to him goes against what Jesus teaches.

So don't try to spin the BS here. You went for the reward and tried to get even more and it played out against you.

As a league banger who likes to gamble a little I will SPECULATE on what I think went through you and your backer's minds. My thought is you wanted to sell the cues which were obviously worth far more than the airbarrel the other guy fired at you but when you found out they were hot you contacted Bill and figured to try and get the airbarrel paid off. My thought is that you figured you were doing the guy a favor by only charging him $2k to get his cues back.

Unfortunately people have different ideas about what a favor is when it comes to money.

Next time you think something won't hurt maybe you should try being the one hit on.
 
Praise Allah!... Nah just kidding. Screw Allah and his shallow 70 virgins promise. Heaven is a much better deal :) :)
 
We need a patron saint of stolen cues. And what's worse cue design theft or cue theft?

Has anyone ever seen their Karmic bank statement?
 
RobertFrost said:
love4dagame that is exactly what happened....i found out they were stolen....i called bill told him how i came about them he offered a500 reward per cue....1000 total..so since he offered 1000 i didn't think it would hurt to ask for two since that was close to what i had invested...he responded immediately that he had to get a few checks cashed but it shouldn't be a problem and he would met me at davey ks....if he had said no then we wouldn't be here now...he was always getting the cues back even before he offered money....he offered not me....i guess he thought they were being ransomed but they were not...i understand now that he had had this happen befOre...but i am not them...my name is not port huron bill...(the original thief) according to mr grassley.
Click to expand...

I figured this to be a very reasonable scenario. I could see past most of the posts he made.

I am just making an outside observation, I do not know either gentleman, it just upset me, that they took one persons word for gold, before even hearing your side.

His story didn't seem to be 100% there, it seemed to have some questionable holes in it.. mix in the fact that you actually brought the sticks, and he claimed he didn't reach an agreement with you.. That you traveled all the way there to meet him.. and the fact that you didn't just sell the super fancy cues for profit in the first place if you were a crook all made it seem a bit fishy..

Now, I can see myself doing the same thing as you, not to hold his cues for ransom, but just to see if it was possible to reach an agreement that makes us both happy, and if not.. he was still going to get his sticks back, but why not try..

I would have probably done the same thing as you, and unfortunately been in the same position as you. As long as the conversation does go the way I assume.

I kind of feel like I would want to sue him for slandering my name. Especially when I was never trying to sell his cues back to him.. I was more just trying to see if there was a decent reward.

Either way.. I don't need to make enemies on this website.. I just joined! So, I am glad you are cleared of your charges, and I am glad he got his sticks back.

I wish you guys the best of luck in future tournaments, and Maybe we will cross paths some day soon!
 
supergreenman said:
What you had invested? Pardon me, but I thought you took the cues as payment for a gambling debt.

You obviously won the bet therefor no money left your pocket. You invested nothing but the time it took to beat the guy that air-barrelled you.
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What about the time it took to go out of his way to meet him, to give him his sticks back?

If he traveled across two states to give them back, thats atleast 8 hrs of his time.. it takes 5 just to cross ohio to michigan. So.. add in the gas it took.. and I can see wanting to be compensated for that.. I also think he could want to be compensated for his effort in finding the original owner of the cues.. he could have just turned a blind eye and sold them.. but he dug into it..

I think people are looking at the wrong part of this.. He did a lot of good things in this situation, that I would hope someone would do for me, if I ever got my sticks stolen. So I wish some people would atleast acknowledge the decent things he did.. and these are things both parties have to agree upon..

He obviously looked up and researched who they belonged too and contacted him to give them back.. That is an effort I cannot say most people I know would do.. Heck.. I think most people around here, would be like.. "woot.. new sticks! Im stoked"
 
I have been watching this thread. Didnt read it all,,but allot of it.


Please don't tell me Robert is from Michigan!!! I have the feeling he is???

Reminds me of a different Crook from MI,,,every post,,,,,,he makes it's worst for himself and he thinks ,,the same post ,, is clearing his name.


The last guy,,,said,,,,,," for god sakes I live with my mom!!!

Do you two know each other?????

Terrible and I am ashamed to be in the same state.

Anyone know who I am talking about?? And both started the dam thread themselves!!!!! Jack asses!!!!


Would have been much better to not say a thing more about it. Amazing!!!!
 
LoVe4DaGaMe said:
What about the time it took to go out of his way to meet him, to give him his sticks back?

If he traveled across two states to give them back, thats atleast 8 hrs of his time.. it takes 5 just to cross ohio to michigan. So.. add in the gas it took.. and I can see wanting to be compensated for that.. I also think he could want to be compensated for his effort in finding the original owner of the cues.. he could have just turned a blind eye and sold them.. but he dug into it..

I think people are looking at the wrong part of this.. He did a lot of good things in this situation, that I would hope someone would do for me, if I ever got my sticks stolen. So I wish some people would atleast acknowledge the decent things he did.. and these are things both parties have to agree upon..

He obviously looked up and researched who they belonged too and contacted him to give them back.. That is an effort I cannot say most people I know would do.. Heck.. I think most people around here, would be like.. "woot.. new sticks! Im stoked"
Click to expand...

I think the $1,000 offered is compensation for his efforts to return the cues. He isn't really entitled to anything else.

If he is entitled, I'm dying to find out what could possibly warrant anything over and above the $1,0000 reward.
 
supergreenman said:
I think the $1,000 offered is compensation for his efforts to return the cues. He isn't really entitled to anything else.

If he is entitled, I'm dying to find out what could possibly warrant anything over and above the $1,0000 reward.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was just saying that he was entitled to something, not nothing.

I said earlier that I would give the sticks back, without any compensation, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get them back to him.. He would come get them.. not 50/50, but 100/0. I wouldn't leave my house to give him his stuff back. I know it sounds harsh, and I am going a little overboard, I might drive to a local pool hall and meet him there, but I damn sure wouldn't travel 2 states to give him his cues back, and get nothing in return.. hell.. My truck would take 120$ in gas to go that far.. lol
 
LoVe4DaGaMe said:
What about the time it took to go out of his way to meet him, to give him his sticks back?

If he traveled across two states to give them back, thats atleast 8 hrs of his time.. it takes 5 just to cross ohio to michigan. So.. add in the gas it took.. and I can see wanting to be compensated for that.. I also think he could want to be compensated for his effort in finding the original owner of the cues.. he could have just turned a blind eye and sold them.. but he dug into it..

I think people are looking at the wrong part of this.. He did a lot of good things in this situation, that I would hope someone would do for me, if I ever got my sticks stolen. So I wish some people would atleast acknowledge the decent things he did.. and these are things both parties have to agree upon..

He obviously looked up and researched who they belonged too and contacted him to give them back.. That is an effort I cannot say most people I know would do.. Heck.. I think most people around here, would be like.. "woot.. new sticks! Im stoked"
Click to expand...
What do you think he had to hire and pay a private detective to track down the owner? I guarantee you that if you come across 2 sticks worth $11,000 and put one post on AZ, the original owner will show up within 24 hours. You don't own sticks of that value and not cruise this site or have somebody who does not tell you about the post. And he didn't have to drive 2 or 3 states or whatever. That was his choice to make sure he got cash he wasn't entitled to. The return of the cues could have been done through the local authorities and the owner could have picked them up on his own dime.
 
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schmizz said:
What do you think he had to hire and pay a private detective to track down the owner? I guarantee you that if you come across 2 sticks worth $11,0000 and put one post on AZ, the original owner will show up within 24 hours. You don't own sticks of that value and not cruise this site or have somebody who does not tell you about the post. And he didn't have to drive 2 or 3 states or whatever. That was his choice to make sure he got cash he wasn't entitled to. The return of the cues could have been done through the local authorities and the owner could have picked them up on his own dime.
Click to expand...

Whether a Detective did it or not, he still went out of his way to find the owner, and compensation could be warranted.

If you read my other posts, I gave my idea on the situation. I am just throwing out different scenarios that must be considered, because we don't know what happened at all.. just word vs word.. So I choose to speculate, rather than assume one is correct over the other.

I also made comments about how I would make them come get them theirselves if it was me.. but he asked Frost to meet him somewhere, which he did, which proves intent to give the cues back.. so I don't really know what you are getting at.. I think you assume I think he was doing the right thing, I am trying to show that there could be more than one way to look at it.. It definitely isn't as "Black and White" as most of you are making it.. that is all..

No hard feelings.
 
no scenarios needed

It is black and white and the answer is simple:
Do the right thing.
He didn't.
No scenarios needed. No justifications or rationalizations needed, either. They all fall short.
Do the right thing.
That is all.
Karl
 
My opinion is solely based on what robertfrost has posted in this thread and his story sounds as shady as a 5 o'clock shadow. I haven't read any other threads on this issue, although I would like to hear what the other guy's response to this thread is. Though he seems a little wiser and is keeping his mouth shut about the whole situation.

My thought on this is that these sticks were too hot to handle and would have drawn too much attention if he used them. It's like owning a stolen Picasso on a much smaller scale. You can't brag about or enjoy owning it and if you try to sell it you take the risk of jail time.

If he sold them and they were traced back to him, he would definitely have been complicit in a crime. So he decided he would "track down" the owner and "gently squeeze" some juice out of him, since it was his only real option to get some cash and try to still come off as a stand up guy.

It don't work that way!
 
LoVe4DaGaMe said:
What about the time it took to go out of his way to meet him, to give him his sticks back?

If he traveled across two states to give them back, thats atleast 8 hrs of his time.. it takes 5 just to cross ohio to michigan. So.. add in the gas it took.. and I can see wanting to be compensated for that.. I also think he could want to be compensated for his effort in finding the original owner of the cues.. he could have just turned a blind eye and sold them.. but he dug into it..

I think people are looking at the wrong part of this.. He did a lot of good things in this situation, that I would hope someone would do for me, if I ever got my sticks stolen. So I wish some people would atleast acknowledge the decent things he did.. and these are things both parties have to agree upon..

He obviously looked up and researched who they belonged too and contacted him to give them back.. That is an effort I cannot say most people I know would do.. Heck.. I think most people around here, would be like.. "woot.. new sticks! Im stoked"
Click to expand...

I think you're running with the wrong crowd. :rolleyes:

Here's what most people I know would have done (hint: it's called the right thing).

First, they wouldn't have played for that kind of money without posting up. This eliminates every bit of the subsequent problems and character testing dilemmas we've seen here.

But for argument sake, let's say that they did slip up and got barreled only to be settled with 2 stolen cues worth approx $11k (the value doesn't really matter to honest folks). They would have made sure the rightful owner got his property back regardless of whether or not a reward was being offered.

Then it would be time to go back to squeeze the head of the air-barreling offender from whom I would not only want my $2500, but also an apology for jeopardizing me by putting hot merchandise in my hands.

Like KCRack'em said, it's black and white. Do we really need 20 pages of opinions and hypotheticals?

And the comment from Robert Frost about league players, drawing the cueball, and putting out a challenge to play some. That's like me pointing out my back window and saying "Is that Lady Gaga?" so when everyone turns to look, I can grab the last donut off the platter. It's a diversion, a (lame) move. It's called subterfuge.

To those who feel more than $1000 was in order to compensate for the time and effort to return Bill's stolen cues, please keep in mind they could have been Fedex'ed with insurance for probably less than a c-note.

As far as getting to the truth, the gang on azb is like a warm shot of sodium pentothal. . .

Best,
Brian kc
 
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again only god will judge me...peace out
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Yes he will. Don't be surprised if you get up some cheery sunny morning and God makes you have a nice big Code Blue and your face does a swan dive into your bowl of Corn Flakes.

God also works in Mysterious ways and contrary to popular belief, does have a sense of humor as well.

Think about that every time you look at your bowl of cereal.
 
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Kickin' Chicken said:
IAnd the comment from Robert Frost about league players, drawing the cueball, and putting out a challenge to play some. That's like me pointing out my back window and saying "Is that Lady Gaga?" so when everyone turns to look, I can grab the last donut off the platter. It's a diversion, a (lame) move. It's called subterfuge.
Best,
Brian kc
Click to expand...

Brian,

Using Lady Gaga for a diversion would've had you and I scrambling for that last donut if I would've been in that room :p. Now, if you'd have said Jessica Biel, you'd have been licking sugar off of your fingers before I got turned back around :thumbup:!!!

Maniac
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
I think you're running with the wrong crowd. :rolleyes:

Here's what most people I know would have done (hint: it's called the right thing).

First, they wouldn't have played for that kind of money without posting up. This eliminates every bit of the subsequent problems and character testing dilemmas we've seen here.

But for argument sake, let's say that they did slip up and got barreled only to be settled with 2 stolen cues worth approx $11k (the value doesn't really matter to honest folks). They would have made sure the rightful owner got his property back regardless of whether or not a reward was being offered.

Then it would be time to go back to squeeze the head of the air-barreling offender from whom I would not only want my $2500, but also an apology for jeopardizing me by putting hot merchandise in my hands.

Like KCRack'em said, it's black and white. Do we really need 20 pages of opinions and hypotheticals?

And the comment from Robert Frost about league players, drawing the cueball, and putting out a challenge to play some. That's like me pointing out my back window and saying "Is that Lady Gaga?" so when everyone turns to look, I can grab the last donut off the platter. It's a diversion, a (lame) move. It's called subterfuge.

To those who feel more than $1000 was in order to compensate for the time and effort to return Bill's stolen cues, please keep in mind they could have been Fedex'ed with insurance for probably less than a c-note.

As far as getting to the truth, the gang on azb is like a warm shot of sodium pentothal. . .

Best,
Brian kc
Click to expand...

Haha.. I am not running with the wrong crowd, I just live in a crappier area than you do, that is quite obvious. lol.

When I refered to people saying "sweet new sticks", this is not the crowd I roll with, this is how I percieve my area to be. I just don't see many stolen sticks getting recovered around my area, but then again.. a lot of stolen sticks aren't this expensive either.

I've stated many times, that I would have given his sticks back for free, but I wouldn't have occurred any costs in doing so. I would have gladly accepted the 1000$, but I can see myself also thrown out there if it was possible to get more of a reward, call it greedy, or what not.. I dunno, I just can see where he is coming from I guess, but I absolutely would be open to no payment as well.

I understand you may think its black and white, but asking if the reward could be greater is not illegal, you might claim he is holding out, but you cannot prove that he wasn't going to give the sticks back regardless, just like he cannot prove he was, all I can tell you is that I can see how this could have been a trap, and set up as well. I can see it going both ways, which I have said many times.

I don't agree with his bashing of League players, as I am one myself.. How else is one supposed to learn? If everyone who was good played in League, then there wouldn't be an issue with League being too easy, now would there? (Directed towards those who don't like League Play)

Either way.. the point is moot because we will never really know the true story, both stories sound like they are missing a piece or two.. I just choose to look at it from Frosts point of view, because everyone else was looking at it from Cornerstones, and I am by no means a fan of someone getting jumped all over.

Regards,
Justyn
 
Maniac said:
Brian,

Using Lady Gaga for a diversion would've had you and I scrambling for that last donut if I would've been in that room :p. Now, if you'd have said Jessica Biel, you'd have been licking sugar off of your fingers before I got turned back around :thumbup:!!!

Maniac
Click to expand...

Lady Gaga attends a Local Gay Club around here quite often called the Masque, so I am assuming this could happen in the Dayton Area.. So if you guys are ever craving some donuts..

:thumbup:
 
Anytime I hear of a break in where property is stolen, the police are called, they make a report, you then send that off to your insurance company as part of a homeowners claim. You then get a check, minus your deductible amount. So if this situation has played out to the point of Mr. Frost getting arrested, then Mr. Grassley should be at this point, two cues and roughly $10,000 richer. If that's the case, then he's commiting insurance fraud here.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
Anytime I hear of a break in where property is stolen, the police are called, they make a report, you then send that off to your insurance company as part of a homeowners claim. You then get a check, minus your deductible amount. So if this situation has played out to the point of Mr. Frost getting arrested, then Mr. Grassley should be at this point, two cues and roughly $10,000 richer. If that's the case, then he's commiting insurance fraud here.
Click to expand...

And if Bill Grassley was so depressed and upset over having been ripped off and he went downtown with a gun and shot someone in the head, he'd be a murderer. :rolleyes:

What else can we speculate about?

Best,
Brian kc
 
The only way to be arrested for being in possession of stolen property is to have a police report saying the property is stolen.
 
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