Rosewood

R

rheester

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
like many of you out there, i have seen countless cues being made and sold described as having "rosewood" somewhere in the cue.

what does that exactly mean? there are so many different kinds of rosewoods out there, brazilian, honduran, borneo, bolivian, east indian, african, cambodian. how can you just blindly label it rosewood. there are also woods out there that are from the same "dalbergia" family that aren't commonly referred to as rosewood, such as kingwood, camatillo, tulip wood, palisander, even cocobolo

each rosewood has distinct qualities to it, from density, tonality, chatoyance, grain pattern, colors, etc. etc. even woods within the same species are different.

and these differences can be huge! for ex, east indian rosewood, much much lighter than honduran.

so when a cue is being sold as having rosewood, should it be more specific? do people even care or is "rosewood" just a buzz word that the general public need to hear.

just wanted to hear your thoughts.
 
As far as I know, the only rosewood that is referred to as "rosewood" is East Indian rosewood. It used to be Brazilian rosewood that was referred to as "rosewood" but that has long since changed. Basically, if it is listed only as "rosewood" then it's 99% of time going to be East Indian.
 
I'm with the OP 100%, Each have there own "personality". I too wish everyone would know what the wood is called and post it. Although I can see people in the forsale section that bought the cue and only know it is a "rosewood" and not the specifics, only puting "rosewood" in there thread, but cuemakers should know and devuldge exactly what wood it is.

If a wood supplier was selling boards of "rosewood" would I give him Brazilian rosewood price or Purple heart price????????
 
rheester said:
like many of you out there, i have seen countless cues being made and sold described as having "rosewood" somewhere in the cue.

what does that exactly mean? there are so many different kinds of rosewoods out there, brazilian, honduran, borneo, bolivian, east indian, african, cambodian. how can you just blindly label it rosewood. there are also woods out there that are from the same "dalbergia" family that aren't commonly referred to as rosewood, such as kingwood, camatillo, tulip wood, palisander, even cocobolo

each rosewood has distinct qualities to it, from density, tonality, chatoyance, grain pattern, colors, etc. etc. even woods within the same species are different.

and these differences can be huge! for ex, east indian rosewood, much much lighter than honduran.

so when a cue is being sold as having rosewood, should it be more specific? do people even care or is "rosewood" just a buzz word that the general public need to hear.

just wanted to hear your thoughts.
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I think in many cases the person labeling the thread for sale doesn't know enough about the different wood used to break things down to the level you have. So yes I think in most cases the word Rosewood is nothing more than a buzz wood, but as far as buzz words go I kinda think that title most likely applies to all the wood used in the cue.

JIMO
 
To the OP,
I happen to agree with a lot of what you're saying. Your questions are very contemporary as I've seen the use of the word 'Rosewood' used quite liberally lately with no reference made to the type of Rosewood. So in that sense you are correct. The use of the word Rosewood is being used as a 'buzz' word.
This may not be intentional and may very well not be anyone's fault.
I'm pretty certain that the builder knew what type of wood he built the cue from and I'm also pretty certain that he told the client/buyer. Most buyers are not very knowledgeable about woods. After a period of time, all he remembers is that his cue is made of Rosewood.
Unfortunately this can lead to some frustration because as you've stated, there are a large number of Rosewoods, each having it's own particular characteristics, etc.
The one common thread amongst the Rosewoods is that for the most part, they are 'tone' woods. This means that they have good tonal qualities which in pool cues translates to the hit. Tone is an expression of vibrations and this is what you feel in your grip-hand when striking the QB and setting those vibrations in motion. These woods will talk to you in this manner. Each speaks a different language yet some are very similar.
Lest we forget, some of the world's greatest musical instruments are made of Rosewoods.

I also happen to agree with Mr. Fisher in that the seller, be it the builder or the seller in the secondary market, should know and state the species for the benefit of the potential buyer. As stated, each of these woods has different characteristics, particularly of tone. This would certainly help the buyer in pre-determining what type of hit this cue might have.

As is the nature of any commodity that is in demand, we are using-up Rosewoods at an alarming rate. Replanting is of no concern when the objective is to clear the land.
What this means is that the price of Rosewoods is going up on a daily basis; supply and demand. True Brazilian Rosewood, delbergia nigra, is all but extinct. What's being harvested today is from the stumps of trees that were initially felled in the `60s & `70s.
It's called 'slab' wood and it's quality is becoming questionable. So is the price as a single bd/ft can cost several hundred dollars and more.

So yes, if the seller can fit the word Rosewood into his sales-pitch, a certain buzz of interest will be generated. I would hope that we can maintain a certain degree of 'truth in advertising' to go along with the sales-pitch, as we go forward.

Excellent thread. Thank You Sir.
 
thanks for your responses.

you're all correct. before i started dabbling with woods, i guess i wouldn't have known or cared, but since i have worked w a few different rosewoods and can appreciate the differences (some of which are huge) i just thought i'd ask what everyone else's thoughts were.

what i do find odd is that there are some cues posted by the actual cuemaker or by well-known sellers that don't elaborate on type of rosewood.

anyhow, thanks again.
jason
 
rheester said:
what i do find odd is that there are some cues posted by the actual cuemaker or by well-known sellers that don't elaborate on type of rosewood.

anyhow, thanks again.
jason
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Though it may seem odd, it happens to the best of makers. There will be instances where the wood is not clearly identified for a myriad of reasons, but can be narrowed down to a certain genus with a fair amount of certainty. Woods stored for so long become intermingled with other woods and unless each piece has been marked for identification guesses will be made.
 
hangemhigh said:
Though it may seem odd, it happens to the best of makers. There will be instances where the wood is not clearly identified for a myriad of reasons, but can be narrowed down to a certain genus with a fair amount of certainty. Woods stored for so long become intermingled with other woods and unless each piece has been marked for identification guesses will be made.
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You just hit the nail on the head, the storage thing, I have seen huge hoards of woods at cue makers shop's. Wood that is moved around for years and years before it is ever used, makes for great wood(I am of the school old wood cues hit better) but while it's moved around with the best possible care the specific name of it can get lost in time, so It can become a guess after its been in a shop for 15-20 years. the name can and will rub off if its written on it, it its stamped on it and that end is cut off the saved end can get forgotten. So its a guess after a while.

In a perfect world it would be great to know exactly what woods are in a cue, but its just not possible given the nature of the cue shop biz, from what I have seen. Often guys dont have a lot of room and things get mixed up. Its the way of the world from order to disorder is reliable as gravity.:)
 
IMHO, it's the quality, not the name that matters

I don't feel it's that big an issue. Regardless of the exact species, each piece of wood is unique. Is a cue with a crappy piece of Brazilian Rosewood better than a cue with a really nice piece of some other Rosewood?
 
rheester said:
. . . . .
each rosewood has distinct qualities to it, from density, tonality, chatoyance, grain pattern, colors, etc. etc. even woods within the same species are different.

. . . . . . ..
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Did no one else have to Google "chatoyance"?

Every day I learn more good stuff here.

Great thread.

Thanks

Gary
 
Fatboy said:
You just hit the nail on the head, the storage thing, I have seen huge hoards of woods at cue makers shop's. Wood that is moved around for years and years before it is ever used, makes for great wood(I am of the school old wood cues hit better) but while it's moved around with the best possible care the specific name of it can get lost in time, so It can become a guess after its been in a shop for 15-20 years. the name can and will rub off if its written on it, it its stamped on it and that end is cut off the saved end can get forgotten. So its a guess after a while.

In a perfect world it would be great to know exactly what woods are in a cue, but its just not possible given the nature of the cue shop biz, from what I have seen. Often guys dont have a lot of room and things get mixed up. Its the way of the world from order to disorder is reliable as gravity.:)
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thanks for your perspective. i would totally agree w/ you on this point. my collection of wood is so sparse, that even 20 years from now i'd know what it was, but for those bigger cue makers, i can see how you'd forget what it was after so many years of dust collecting on it, also if the blank has wax all over it.
 
I guess I don't see what you all see. I have never seen a cue that was described as having "rosewood" that wasn't either Brazilian or East Indian, usually depending on age of cue. Every other rosewood has a specific name & that is what is used. Personally, I have never seen cocobolo, kingwood, tulip, camatillo, etc. referred to as anything except what it is. The only cues I see commonly referred to as "rosewood" are production cues that utilize East Indian rosewood. I'd say 99% of cues I see listed as rosewood are made with EI rose. The other 1% is Brazilian in old cues.
 
qbilder said:
I guess I don't see what you all see. I have never seen a cue that was described as having "rosewood" that wasn't either Brazilian or East Indian, usually depending on age of cue. Every other rosewood has a specific name & that is what is used. Personally, I have never seen cocobolo, kingwood, tulip, camatillo, etc. referred to as anything except what it is. The only cues I see commonly referred to as "rosewood" are production cues that utilize East Indian rosewood. I'd say 99% of cues I see listed as rosewood are made with EI rose. The other 1% is Brazilian in old cues.
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http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=207751&highlight=tascarella
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=204026&highlight=tascarella
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=213463
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=191573&highlight=rosewood
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=191568&highlight=rosewood
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=207648&highlight=rosewood
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=211886&highlight=rosewood
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=212412&highlight=rosewood

these were just a few that i was referring to in the past few weeks.

as you can see, you are correct, some do look like EIR, however, some do not.

but you may be correct in that the default is EIR.

just thought i'd raise this as a point of discussion
 
Yeah I see what you mean. Everything shown I am nearly 100% certain was EIR except for the Bender & the second Tasc. The Tasc I think likely to be EIR but could also be Amazon or Mayan rose. But the Bender wasn't even rosewood, or at least any rosewood I have ever seen. I'd have to hear from Mike that it was a rosewood & him tell me the identity before i'll even believe that it's rosewood.
 
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