Rule Question

CamposCues

CamposCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I saw an argument arise over this the other night and wasn't sure.

Say you are playing BCA 8 ball and you accidentally move a ball during a shot. Is it only a foul if the cue ball or the ball you shot come in contact with the ball moved or is it a foul if either ball even comes close to the ball you moved?
 
CamposCues said:
I saw an argument arise over this the other night and wasn't sure.

Say you are playing BCA 8 ball and you accidentally move a ball during a shot. Is it only a foul if the cue ball or the ball you shot come in contact with the ball moved or is it a foul if either ball even comes close to the ball you moved?
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Yes. Without looking, I can tell you this is a foul but you can probably find something in www.bca-pool.com
 
If it's not it should be. I don't like those "Cue ball fouls only" rules. Once you get to a ceratin level, and I'm talking even high C class here, you should have enough control over yourself and your equipment so that you don't go knocking things around the table. Never been a fan of the "Just move it back" rule.
MULLY
Yes, in my opinion John Schmidt's 164 ball run on his new DVD was over when he moved that 9-ball with his stick
 
1.16.1 CUE BALL FOULS ONLY
When a referee is presiding over a match, it is a foul for a player to touch any ball (cue ball or object ball)
with the cue, clothing, body, mechanical bridge or chalk, before, during or after a shot. However, when a
referee is not presiding over a game, it is not a foul to accidentally touch stationary balls located between
the cue ball and the shooter while in the act of shooting. If such an accident occurs, the player should
allow the Tournament Director to restore the object balls to their correct positions. If the player does not
allow such a restoration, and a ball set in motion as a normal part of the shot touches such an unrestored
ball, or passes partly into a region originally occupied by a disturbed ball, the shot is a foul. In short, if the
accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul. In any case, the Tournament Director must
be called upon to restore the positions of the disturbed balls as soon as possible, but not during the shot.
It is a foul to play another shot before the Tournament Director has restored any accidentally moved balls.
At the non-shooting player?s option, the disturbed balls will be left in their new positions. In this case, the
balls are considered restored, and subsequent contact on them is not a foul. It is still a foul to make any
contact with the cue ball whatsoever while it is in play, except for the normal tip-to-ball contact during a
shot.
 
Rule

Jude Rosenstock said:
1.16.1 CUE BALL FOULS ONLY
When a referee is presiding over a match, it is a foul for a player to touch any ball (cue ball or object ball)
with the cue, clothing, body, mechanical bridge or chalk, before, during or after a shot. However, when a
referee is not presiding over a game, it is not a foul to accidentally touch stationary balls located between
the cue ball and the shooter while in the act of shooting. If such an accident occurs, the player should
allow the Tournament Director to restore the object balls to their correct positions. If the player does not
allow such a restoration, and a ball set in motion as a normal part of the shot touches such an unrestored
ball, or passes partly into a region originally occupied by a disturbed ball, the shot is a foul. In short, if the
accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul. In any case, the Tournament Director must
be called upon to restore the positions of the disturbed balls as soon as possible, but not during the shot.
It is a foul to play another shot before the Tournament Director has restored any accidentally moved balls.
At the non-shooting player?s option, the disturbed balls will be left in their new positions. In this case, the
balls are considered restored, and subsequent contact on them is not a foul. It is still a foul to make any
contact with the cue ball whatsoever while it is in play, except for the normal tip-to-ball contact during a
shot.
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Thats what I had always though, although it never came up until the other night. I stayed out of it because I wasn't positive.

I was reading over some of the rules for the Midwest tournament this weekend and it seems to imply it's only a foul if they make contact.


"8. ACCIDENTALLY moving or touching any ball is not a foul unless: 1) the moved ball is the cue ball or 2) a moved ball makes contact with the cue ball or 3) a moved ball that is jumped off the table or pocketed or causes any ball to be jumped off the table or pocketed. (exception to #3: If the 8-ball is jumped off the table or pocketed, it is loss of game if called by the opponent before the next shot is taken.) Only opponent may replace the ball moved as closely as possible or leave it where it rests. If the shooter replaces the moved ball; it will be considered a foul.
a. If you accidentally move an object ball during a shot and it moves into the path of a ball that was shot, it is a foul if those balls collide.
b. If you accidentally touch and move a ball and it falls in a pocket, your opponent has the choice of leaving the ball down or replacing it on the table as close as possible to its original position.
c. If you intentionally touch a ball, it is a foul. (Example: Intentionally resting your hand on a ball to stabilize your bridge.)"
 
When I see people fighting over fouls (especially ones like this).... it reminds me of people getting in a fight over 'cutting in line'... its just dumb. Rules are rules, but you gotta let little things like this slide. Even if your playing for money, if this "foul" is the difference between winning and losing, take the loss like a man and play better next time. Just my opinion.
 
cleary said:
When I see people fighting over fouls (especially ones like this).... it reminds me of people getting in a fight over 'cutting in line'... its just dumb. Rules are rules, but you gotta let little things like this slide. Even if your playing for money, if this "foul" is the difference between winning and losing, take the loss like a man and play better next time. Just my opinion.
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I agree with you about people nit picking over little things but dude, c'mon, if you hit a ball with your stick or nudge it with your bridge hand..........it should be a foul. I really really dislike that cue ball foul only rule. I think at this level you need to be able to control yourself. The cue ball only rule is as silly to me as guys in bars wanting to space the cue ball when it's up against a rail.
MULLY
 
mullyman said:
I agree with you about people nit picking over little things but dude, c'mon, if you hit a ball with your stick or nudge it with your bridge hand..........it should be a foul. I really really dislike that cue ball foul only rule. I think at this level you need to be able to control yourself. The cue ball only rule is as silly to me as guys in bars wanting to space the cue ball when it's up against a rail.
MULLY
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I agree. I really detest sloppy play. If you're concerned about moving a ball, it makes the shot harder. I've played A-level players and above that will accidentally move balls several times a set. Each time, I have to wonder if they were conscious of that ball, would they had made the shot.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I agree. I really detest sloppy play. If you're concerned about moving a ball, it makes the shot harder. I've played A-level players and above that will accidentally move balls several times a set. Each time, I have to wonder if they were conscious of that ball, would they had made the shot.
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If a player is so unconcerned about moving a ball that they pay no attention to it, can it really be considered accidental movement if they touch it? I've seen some players who when shooting over a ball seem to take no precaution at all to avoid grazing the ball with their ferrule/shaft.

I hope we eventually move to calling all fouls in the US as they seem to do already in the rest of the world. "Cue ball fouls only" seems to be an American thing.
 
I just think there is a difference between accidentally touching a ball and being totally careless. If someone makes a mistake that really doesn't affect the games outcome, let it go. If they move a ball, ask them to move it back. But to get in an argument over it... its kind of silly.
 
Yeah, the cue-ball-foul-only rule is a little annoying sometimes. On the other hand, it might create some fights to have all-ball-fouls without a ref. I imagine it could create a your-word-against-mine scenario and cause more fights than it solves.

I would actually like to have something similar to the Seminole Florida 10-ball rule:

When shooting over an object ball or passed an object ball to get to the cue ball and the cue ball is as close as 1.5 inches or closer, he must not move the object ball in any way or it is a foul.​

I guess, without a ref, you could have the same problem in that the shooter could argue that it wasn't within 1.5 inches, but maybe that problem could be solved by requiring a declaration before the shot, like with a frozen ball.

The other night this came up in a game for me. My opponent shot a masse around a close ball. I called a foul because I thought the cue ball had hit the blocking ball. Then he told me that it was his shaft that hit the object ball and that the cue ball did curve around where the ball originally was.

I ended up giving it to him because of the doubt-going-to-the-shooter rule and because we're good friends so I figured he was being honest, and we were only playing super cheap. But I think that's a gap in the WPA rules right there unless there's something I'm missing.
 
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Situation

The situation arose when a shorter player was jacking up over a ball on tip toes. It was an awkward shot for him to reach. He was kind of wobbly and slightly miscued but made clean contact with the object ball. His cue bumped the ball he was jacking up over and it probably moved 2". the object ball he made contact with didn't drop but hit two rails and came back toward the ball he bumped. It probably died about a foot short of touching the ball he moved. He told to guy sorry and asked him if he wanted to move the ball back but the guy said it was a foul. The short guy didn't think it was because they didn't touch and really would never have even if the cue ball kept rolling. I stayed out of it but listened to it cause it was funny.
 
Cuebacca said:
I would actually like to have something similar to the Seminole Florida 10-ball rule:

When shooting over an object ball or passed an object ball to get to the cue ball and the cue ball is as close as 1.5 inches or closer, he must not move the object ball in any way or it is a foul.​
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Oops, I guess this rule wouldn't have helped me because it only seems to apply to a situation where the object ball is between the cue ball and the shooter. A rule similar to that, but a little more general, is what what I'd like to have.
 
I play in a Wensday night league Its all ball fouls and the kicker is the cue cant be raised above you're armpit during the game. some one told them these keeps from having holes in the cloth most of the players dont know what a double hit his I call a foul and they yell at me, balls 1\4 inch apart shooting straight with draw and the cue ball goes forward 8 inches.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If a player is so unconcerned about moving a ball that they pay no attention to it, can it really be considered accidental movement if they touch it? I've seen some players who when shooting over a ball seem to take no precaution at all to avoid grazing the ball with their ferrule/shaft.

I hope we eventually move to calling all fouls in the US as they seem to do already in the rest of the world. "Cue ball fouls only" seems to be an American thing.
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AGREED! Such a rule would amount to perhaps 1 foul out of 5 sets for me.
 
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