Rules For Push-out 9 Ball
- Thread starter thepavlos
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Paul...Basically you could 'push', or 'roll out' on any shot. The incoming player had the option of taking the shot, or making you shoot again. Getting the shot back meant that you had to make a legal hit, or it was ball-in-hand for your opponent. That's why it was called "two shot shootout"!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
there was a little more to than that,i dont know the complete rules but a few more were. all balls made on the break got spotted, i think the original rules were no ball in hand after a foul you shot from the kitchen.Scott Lee said:
probably more of a challenge..but from the greats ive talked the matter over with Dan louie,Jack Madden,Earl (the crazy man)Strickland. they all sceme to think the chance to roll out takes some of the luck out. for the better.
Scott Lee said:
You could, but if your opponent scratched or committed some other foul before your turn, you would not push. At least, the way we played, ball in hand was only awarded after two consecutive fouls. ANY two consecutive fouls. Some people played two consecutive fouls by the same player, which could get complicated keeping track of the other guy's fouls. Ball in hand on a scratch with no previous foul got ball in hand behind the line. If the "on" ball was behind the line, it spotted on the foot spot. All balls stayed down on a scratch except the one before the money ball, often played with money on both the five and the nine.
A lot of people hear "You can push out anytime" and think it means just that, but it really doesn't. You never have to push out, it's not a requirement, it's an option. Sometimes it's advantageous to hit the object ball to another position, rather than pushing out the cue ball. Sure, your opponent could then push himself, but you have to take that into consideration, what will\can he do? What will I do if he does this\that? Some people bemoan that the so-called two way shot is non existent in push out 9 ball, but so what? I think you have to know much more about your opponent's game and your own. Ray Martin told me in 1978, and I quote, "Any idiot can hide the cue ball."
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"2 foul" or "pushout".....
9 ball was to me a more interesting game. It just brought more into play than texas express rules. Made for quite a different game IMO. For those who don't know what it is or how it's played, you should try it sometime.....may help your game. Not that it's better...just different....and I would think those that played under those rules before would favor them. Maybe not.....
Some other rules IIRC are ball in hand = in the kitchen, and all balls spot on a foul or slop.
Bar box has its' own feel and is just another kind of game....no need for one to bash the other..there's plenty of both around. Kind of like the difference between tennis and racketball IMO.
td
Mowem down said:
9 ball was to me a more interesting game. It just brought more into play than texas express rules. Made for quite a different game IMO. For those who don't know what it is or how it's played, you should try it sometime.....may help your game. Not that it's better...just different....and I would think those that played under those rules before would favor them. Maybe not.....
Some other rules IIRC are ball in hand = in the kitchen, and all balls spot on a foul or slop.
Bar box has its' own feel and is just another kind of game....no need for one to bash the other..there's plenty of both around. Kind of like the difference between tennis and racketball IMO.
td
The rules for push out 9 ball are pretty much word of mouth, I may have forgotten some stuff. I had a complete post on r.s.b with rules and suggested strategies and had a copy saved. I think, however, that it was on my computer that died due to motherboard failure.
I doubt the rules are posted anywhere, as such.
I doubt the rules are posted anywhere, as such.
thepavlos said:
Paul,
The rules are all above. As in 8 ball the general rules varied from place to place, but you can see the general rule of thumb is you can 'push out' on any shot unless you already have 1 foul on you. The oponent has the option as Scott stated of taking the shot or giving it back to you. If either player gets 2 consecutive fouls then the other player has 'ball in hand' in the kitchen. You can extrapolate all the rest yourself. If you need specific full set of rules I suggest you find a rule book printed before the late 70's with 9 ball in it. I also believe from my foggy memory that all balls are called, i.e. no slop.
That is pretty much it. Hope that helps.
td
it was originally two fouls by the same person. If one rolled out and the other shot, no chance for ball in hand. Later it changed to any two fouls.Pushout said:
most players could regularly make spot shots. Before the game we agreed to either spot all balls or one before the money. No ball in hand unless two fouls. One foul was installed to speed the matches up for T.V.
Drew said:
Wow, and all that from some one who was not even alive when the game was popular. It can't get any more elitist than that Sweet Heart!!!!!!!:rotflmao1:
However, in truth the only reason 9 Ball is played like it is today, is because they had to shorten the length of the games for TV, or I seriously doubt it would have ever changed.
Elitist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup: Kids, you gotta love em!!!!!!!!!!!
Scott, as I recall we played that you could push out on any turn in which you couldn't get a clear shot on the object ball. Oftentimes your opponent would have to agree that you were hooked. However this rule did take 90% of the luck out of 9-ball, and made the outcome much more skill oriented.Scott Lee said:
Doc
Two fouls by the same person was quite a bit different than two consecutive fouls by anyone. A different strategy altogether. Not too popular then because it was too complicated and took too much time.Pushout said:
In regular two fouls you could pushout anytime even if you were not hooked. A great deal of luck was eliminated playing two fouls.
Back then I preferred to put it all into a session of so many ahead instead of playing races. If you were the better player the odds were heavy in your favor to win the set because of the diminished luck factor.
Drew said:
Not hardly. It's an opinion that is shared by many of us who grew up on 2-foul 9-ball.
9-ball is not a "luck" game but sets are often decided on key LUCKY shots. The thing is that two foul nine ball made the game more like chess in that you had to really out think and outplay your opponent. There were so many things you could do, push to a tough cut, push to a bank, tie up the table with clusters, push to a jump shot. You had to really challenge your opponent.
When I got to Europe they didn't play push after the break. Honestly it was a welcome change. I HATE 1-foul 9 Ball with a push out after the break. If you are going to have it be 1-foul ball-in-hand then have it be that way all the way through. WHY? Because the obvious answer to a push after the break is a safety in 99% of the times a push is made. Stupid rule.
Two foul nine ball is a slower game with more strategy but also with great great run outs and shot making.
However it doesn't really lend itself to learning the kicking game and that's where 1-foul nine ball has brought the game to a higher level.
There are pros and cons on both sides. I prefer two foul nine ball.
thepavlos said:
If I remember correctly the way we played it in OKC was as follows.
After the break you did not have to try to hit the lowest numbered ball on the table. You could take a foul by not hitting the lowest numbered ball. This was called a push.
Then the outgoing player was on 1 foul. The incoming player had to then choose to accept the shot or give it back. If they accepted the shot then the outgoing player's foul was erased. The incoming player then had to make a legal hit on the lowest numbered ball.
Only when the incoming player was coming to the table without any previous push could they push. So there was never a situation where two players were just pushing the cue ball around.
Now here is where my memory is hazy;
I think that IF the incoming player chose to accept the shot and then fouled then it was ball in hand for the other guy. I think that this was to prevent the snenario I just described where two players are not trying to hit the lowest numbered ball. So IF I am right then two foul nine ball is that the incoming player after two consecutive fouls has ball in hand.
The other rules were that a foul on the break caused all balls made on the break to be spotted. Sometime we played that the only ball to spot was the lowest numbered ball if it was behind the headstring. Since a foul on the break was the first foul the incoming player didn't get ball in hand - they had to shoot from behind the head string and had the choice to take the shot or give it back.
Thus players really had to know how to make spot shots under these rules.
I can't remember if we had to shoot at all balls we could see. I think so, but I am not sure. Sometimes you would play someone safe knowing where they would push to and then you would take the shot and run out.
Much more strategy in this game.
One foul nine ball is like paint by the numbers. Still takes a lot of skill to play at a high level but the moves are pretty much the same no matter where you go in the world. In two foul nine ball you'd see people pushing to crazy cut shots, crazy banks, combinations, caroms, jumps. And you knew that SOMEBODY was going to have to try that shot.