Rules ideas for 9 / 10-ball

dirtypool40

dirtypool40

I love this freakin' game
Silver Member
I have had a couple ideas for helping make 9 & 10-ball "better".

Now we can all agree 9-ball is broken, let's not argue that here.

10-ball is better, and rack your own & eliminating the "bottom two corners" for the 10-ball win is better. BUT: we all know how to sauce the rack for a 10-ball to squirt towards a corner, making the old "combo / carom race" part of the game.

So the problems are:

1- pattern racking

2- the 10-ball scoring "early" in the bottom two corners because of a juiced rack.


What if we played by these rules?

1 - rack your own, with the pattern being "random", meaning you throw the balls in the rack while your opponent (or referee) watches then move IN ORDER, and ONLY the 1-ball and 10-ball.

No goofy break box, or "I get to shoot after my break no matter what" rules. No patterning, should return the "random puzzle" nature of the game as intended.

2- The 10-ball ONLY SCORES A WIN WHEN POCKETED IN ROTATION. NO 10-ball on the break as a winner EVER. If it goes, it spots. If you juice the rack and it squirts towards a pocket, fine. Make it early and it spots. Now you have the added DIFFICULTY of playing shape AFTER a combination.

I have never heard anyone come up with a rule like this, and wondered what players would think.

As a variation, what about letting the 10-ball "score" if it's called, and NEVER IN THE BOTTOM TWO CORNERS.


It would seem to me that if we racked like this, and took AT LEAST the bottom two out of play for a lucky 10-ball EXCEPT IN ROTATION, we might have most of the scams worked out, preventing a 9-ball like decay.

These rules would also help 9-ball, although I for one would love to see 9-ball fade out entirely.


What do you think?
 
I would also love to see 9 ball stay an amatuer game and let the pro tournys switch to 10 Ball. 9 Ball has been screwed up beyond repair at this point on the pro level.

My suggestion. Make the rack order MANDATORY and not random. Too many guys will learn a trick if trying to keep it random. And it will only add a few seconds to the time of a game.

I saw a tourny last year that had a race to your handicap but if you ran out you got 2 points and a combination you got 1. So if you make a combo and wish to get the extra point you can opt to have the 10 ball respotted and try to get out. Can make for some interesting strategy.

I've also seen tournys where the 10 Ball MUST be done in rotation. Also making the cue ball spot in the kitchen, and if the next ball is also in the kitchen that ball gets spotted.

10 Ball has great potential to help the pro level players. I wish they would all push for this game over 9 Ball at major tournaments.
 
I guess you didn't get the memo on it :) "no 10b on the break" and "no 10b in the bottom two corners" are both used in 10b tournaments, notably under WPA and UPA rules. Most of the major 10b tournaments you might have heard of use these rules.

They also specify random racking order, and it's hard to juice the racks because the WPA rules pretty much explicitly suggest using a racking template/tapped tables. Try intentionally putting a favorable gap in there with the magic ball rack. It's pretty tough.
 
9-ball is not broken, it is still a fast exciting game, suited for action, and easy to understand for the non pool crowd. Leave it alone, it is fine just the way it has been for the last 25 years.
 
I agree 9 ball is fine and should be left just as it is, slow breaks and all leave it be. But as an amateur game and a money game. Professional tournament rotation pool though should be 10 ball. Short enough and action packed enough to please the channel hoppers and the casual TV fan, but a challenge for the best players.
 
CreeDo said:
I guess you didn't get the memo on it :) "no 10b on the break" and "no 10b in the bottom two corners" are both used in 10b tournaments, notably under WPA and UPA rules. Most of the major 10b tournaments you might have heard of use these rules.

They also specify random racking order, and it's hard to juice the racks because the WPA rules pretty much explicitly suggest using a racking template/tapped tables. Try intentionally putting a favorable gap in there with the magic ball rack. It's pretty tough.
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Thanks I got that one.

I was really thinking more about "fixing" the rolls of $hitting in a 9 or 10-ball.

I still think there needs to be something done about combos in the bottom two.

Maybe call the 10-ball to win anywhere else, and the 10-ball only wins in rotation in those bottom two.
 
Recently, my buddy and I (he's entered in the upcoming US Open 10-ball Championship tournament in Vegas) have been practicing together on my table using the rules planned for the tournament... and I gotta say... most pros would definitely vote for this rule set. It's about as clean as you can get from a slop basis.

Essentially, the rules are... rack your own... 10-ball made on the break gets re-spotted, breaker continues shooting... push out rule are in place.. call pocket after break... if a ball is pocketed illegally (a ball is called but it is not made,yet another ball is made... that's one situation... and the other situation being when a safe is called but a ball is made inadvertantly by the shooter), the opponent has the option of making the shooter shoot again. BIH for all fouls.

The only situation where luck comes into play is when a shooter trys to make a shot... they miss the shot... and then they totally luck into a hook of the incoming player on the next ball.. The incoming player has no choice but to make the best out of what shot/opportunity they are left.
 
cigardave said:
The only situation where luck comes into play is when a shooter trys to make a shot... they miss the shot... and then they totally luck into a hook of the incoming player on the next ball.. The incoming player has no choice but to make the best out of what shot/opportunity they are left.
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Which could easily be remedied by allowing either a pushout or pass-back option after a failure to make a called shot. Wonder why they are not doing that?

Aaron
 
Aaron_S said:
Which could easily be remedied by allowing either a pushout or pass-back option after a failure to make a called shot. Wonder why they are not doing that?

Aaron
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I am good with a push-out after a missed called shot and a pass-back option after a push-out or safety. I think it would eliminate some of the safety battles, which I tend to enjoy, but many people feel slow down the pace of the game too much and turn off potential viewers/fans.

As far as all the racking regulations goes, how about we take the time we spend trying to figure out how to "trick" the rack to our advantage and use that time to work on our game, so we might actually, you know, play better? The number of ways people come up with to cheat at this game (and the amount of time spent on them) just astounds me sometimes.
 
poolplayer2093 said:
how is 9 ball broken? i only know 3 people that actually play well enough for pattern racking to work for them
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Broken may be too strong of a word. I think many people just do not consider the game to be worthy of championship play. To me, pattern racking is not as big of an issue as the wing ball flying in 95% of the time, and a 9 on the snap winning the game.

Aaron
 
Aaron_S said:
Broken may be too strong of a word. I think many people just do not consider the game to be worthy of championship play. To me, pattern racking is not as big of an issue as the wing ball flying in 95% of the time, and a 9 on the snap winning the game.

Aaron
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That and the easy patterns left after making the wing +1 or more balls.

No, it's not that easy forme, I am a lowly B-player. But the shape of the rack, how the 9-ball squirts around the table, and how once you find a break spot the racks are easy, spread out 6-7 ball patterns.

10-ball just produces tougher patterns. There's something about the weight of that rack or where the balls go, the 10-ball rack just produces tougher patterns, even given the same # of balls on the table after the break. It IS tougher to run a 10-ball rack with a ball removed after the break, than it is to run a 9-ball rack, even if nothing goes.
 
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