Rules Question in Match at Texas Open

No offense

gromulan said:
I agree with this. Any TD that implements this rule should be barred from organizing, playing in, betting on, or having any opportunity to profit from a pool match for the rest of their lifetime. If you don't trust your players to respect a 'no concession' request of their own volition, you should just f*** off.

Furthermore, any player that accepts a game or two game penalty because his player conceded a game should be barred from all tournaments for 10 years. No one should gamble with this person ever again. Seriously, if you need the prize money that bad, go rob a liquor store.


Pool has enough nits and nit rules as it is. This is one of the worst!
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Im sorry but that's quite ignorant to say that someone needs to be banned for 'following' a rule, and to state thay any player who accepts the game should be barred. It's not about gamble in a tournament. Tournaments, granted are about money, are not a gambling match where this would make a difference. IF every player knew or had heard, [ no disrespect to anyone in this thread btw] then its their right by rule sets. Once again no offense but people like you who threaten and call someone following the rules a nit and questioning the character of these people is somewhat disrespectful on your part.


and by the way. If there's a rule in effect that says "Well you can make the nine ball of the second shot in the entire set as long as you shoot a combination shot one foot'd jacked up" Im willing to bet that there are several who would take advantage because by ruling it's a legal shot. Just like if someone were to play you and say that you weren't allowed bih after a scratch. You have to know the rules, but your 'punishment' and calling a legitimate player a nit has gotten under my skin severely.
 
n33njah said:
Im sorry but that's quite ignorant to say that someone needs to be banned for 'following' a rule, and to state thay any player who accepts the game should be barred. It's not about gamble in a tournament. Tournaments, granted are about money, are not a gambling match where this would make a difference. IF every player knew or had heard, [ no disrespect to anyone in this thread btw] then its their right by rule sets. Once again no offense but people like you who threaten and call someone following the rules a nit and questioning the character of these people is somewhat disrespectful on your part.


and by the way. If there's a rule in effect that says "Well you can make the nine ball of the second shot in the entire set as long as you shoot a combination shot one foot'd jacked up" Im willing to bet that there are several who would take advantage because by ruling it's a legal shot. Just like if someone were to play you and say that you weren't allowed bih after a scratch. You have to know the rules, but your 'punishment' and calling a legitimate player a nit has gotten under my skin severely.
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There's a way to play with honor, and a way to play without it. There's also rules that are without honor and when you play real pool you ignore them. That's an obvious example and anyone who tries to take advantage of it is worthless and should not be playing in real competition - it's as simple as that.

It's the same as when a guy tries to jump up and claim a game of eight ball because you didn't verbally "call the eight" when you were shooting it straight in to a pocket eight inches away from it. Sure it's the rule, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a nit move. Watch too honorable players going at it, I'd bet they wouldn't even think of calling something like that. Why? Because everyone knows these are nit moves. To say something like "its their right by rule sets" is just splitting hairs. Would you want to win the US Open like that? I mean you have to look at yourself in the mirror afterward, don't you?

Play with honor at all times, then you can hold your head high regardless of whether you win or lose. And when you do win the US Open trophy you can put it on your mantle and know it's there because you EARNED it.
 
Okay

I understand your point grom and I'm not attacking your character, What I was attacking was the fact that you attack people who are following the rules. Personally I wouldn't call this against my opponent because i'm lax as long as they are close to straight or if I fubar i'll make it a 'gimme' i'm just stating that your previous post which basically lambasted anyone who would, could, should, and can use this rule is a nit. I'm sorry that's ignorant imo. The rules apply to everyone, if its legal then it's legal whether you view it as nitty or not. I'm just saying that you saying anyone who does this should be banned or kicked in the nuts or whatever is a bit overboard, and there's NO LOSE OF RESPECT for following the rules. Once again i'm not attacking you as a person, it's just your statement irked me.

We play three foul in our sets. 3 consecutive fouls= lose of game. I've called that on people. There's not -much- different other than this instance doesnt get me a game on the wire, it awards my safety game. Its just a simple difference of opinion and as I said i meant no offense so I hope you didnt take it that way. Im just saying your ideas of fixing this were a lil overboard.
That simple man
 
an example

Big C said:
I think this is a NIT rule, as a concession is a part of the game. You see it all the time during local events. Why should the Texas open be different? Do the fans really benefit watching someone sink a gimme? Any golfers out there know that a concession is a sign of respect as well as a way to speed up the pace of play. If there is one thing the Texas open needs, it's a way to speed up play.
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I have seen a TOP Pro player at a tourney, miss a ball, and rake in 3 or 4 balls. The opponent breaks, don't make a ball, and the guy don't get out, and again rakes the balls. I have heard of an instance where this top rated player did this during a set, not letting the other guy shoot at a ball, other than when the guy makes a ball on th break. Thus helping keep the guy from getting a chance to get into stroke. Are you gonna say that's fair? I understand your thinking it being a NIT rule, but it has a legitimate purpose. They play this {or did} at DCC. Along with a rule for a loss of game for tapping the balls when you're racking.The main thing is if you play in a tourney, you need to know the rules, and try not to lose a set due to a rule violation.
 
n33njah said:
i'm just stating that your previous post which basically lambasted anyone who would, could, should, and can use this rule is a nit. I'm sorry that's ignorant imo. The rules apply to everyone, if its legal then it's legal whether you view it as nitty or not. I'm just saying that you saying anyone who does this should be banned or kicked in the nuts or whatever is a bit overboard, and there's NO LOSE OF RESPECT for following the rules.
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Sorry, but anyone who calls nit rules is a nit. I have no respect for them. The fact that it might be legal for them to act like a nit doesn't exonerate them, imo. It's not their fault, it's the fault of whoever created those rules in the first place - that person is obviously an idiot - but you still have to use your own brain when you compete, and rely on your own honor.
 
gromulan said:
Sorry, but anyone who calls nit rules is a nit. I have no respect for them. The fact that it might be legal for them to act like a nit doesn't exonerate them, imo. It's not their fault, it's the fault of whoever created those rules in the first place - that person is obviously an idiot - but you still have to use your own brain when you compete, and rely on your own honor.
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I have to agree here...we played a team once in scotch and had to have a ref called on a shot. He called a foul against our team. We argued with the ref on the rule has was using to call the foul. Our opponents tell us that even though they thought it was a good hit, the ref said it was a foul so they would take it. It was legal for them to take ball in hand just like it is legal for the player to take a game for their opponent conceding the 9, but was it right? I would lose respect for any player I saw pull either of these moves just to win, regardless if their is a rule in place that says it ok. This has been considered a gentlemen's sport and actions like that take from that title.

This situation is not stemming from Gabe sharking Zaid, which is what the rule was most likely set to avoid. It was an instance of a player upset that he scratched on the 9 in a close match, giving his opponent ball in hand. He wasn't trying to cool Zaid off by keeping him from shooting. He was simply conceding a ball in had shot to a good player. I am sure the rule that he has to give an additional game was nowhere in his mind set at that moment.
 
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How is this rule so different from other rules? I've had guys walk up to the table as if they were going to give me a shot and then say "Naw, go ahead and shoot it." It eliminates the chance for misunderstanding or sharking. As with any rule, if you break it there is a penalty. Are pool players so dense they can't remember a simple rule. My opponent was on the hill and I gave him the 9. He explained to me I couldn't do that or I would incur a penalty. I asked him what the penalty would be for givng the match ending ball. I got no answer.
 
Big C said:
I think this is a NIT rule, as a concession is a part of the game.
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The rule is in place so that people do not use (and not use) concessions as a a sharking technique. I have seen it done countless times where a player is given a relatively difficult shot in one game only to be made to shoot a certain slightly easier shot in the next and expecting to get the concession they are not mentally ready to shoot it and then think more about them not getting the concession then thinking about the shot itself.

Concessions need to go, all tours and events should use the same rule until people figure it out and thus noone is giving people the shots and the issue thus becomes a non-issue. The game is not over until you make the last ball, if it is THAT easy then take the 2 seconds to line up and shoot that easy shot in and now the game is over and the next can begin.

I could just see is happen, pool finally gets back in the good graces with the Casino's and lines are made on a match for betting purposes. Those of us out there with some sense know that this is a huge positive shift for the sport that can create alot more interest and money for pool. The finals are taking place, the bets are out there, the score is hill hill, and the last game is conceded on a fairly tough 9 by a player who seems like he might have winked. The players are both happily shaking hands on a good match and the casino managers who upped some sponsorship money based on there income from the cage are just standing there moot, knowing this will be the last time they support pool in any way.

Concessions are just another pain in the neck of this sport, we are better doing away with this practice, it is unprofessional, it can be used for sharking and leads to arguements, it can be used to keep your opponent from shooting a few shots on an easy 4 ball layout with ball in hand in order to keep your opponent from loosening up after a long wait in their chair, and it can be used in ways not intended that are in no way going to help this sport.
 
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Please for the sake of us all that want to be known as good rules followers... provide your list of 'nit rules' or is this the only one?

You must be one of the elite players that can follow only the rules that you think are VALID and NON Nit.

We cannot go forward without your list. Otherwise those of us who follow all the tournament rules that are suppose to be for everyone will be labeled by you as being a NIT.

I am also curious about your last sentence.... You say we have to use our own brain... and rely on your own honor... please explain.. how we can do this without having your list of nit rules?


gromulan said:
Sorry, but anyone who calls nit rules is a nit. I have no respect for them. The fact that it might be legal for them to act like a nit doesn't exonerate them, imo. It's not their fault, it's the fault of whoever created those rules in the first place - that person is obviously an idiot - but you still have to use your own brain when you compete, and rely on your own honor.
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Tom In Cincy said:
I am also curious about your last sentence.... You say we have to use our own brain... and rely on your own honor... please explain.. how we can do this without having your list of nit rules?
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If you seriously have to ask then it's too late for you. My best advice is to take two weeks off from pool and then quit forever. Maybe get into duplicate bridge or something.



Celtic said:
The rule is in place so that people do not use (and not use) concessions as a a sharking technique. I have seen it done countless times where a player is given a relatively difficult shot in one game only to be made to shoot a certain slightly easier shot in the next and expecting to get the concession they are not mentally ready to shoot it and then think more about them not getting the concession then thinking about the shot itself.

Concessions need to go, all tours and events should use the same rule until people figure it out and thus noone is giving people the shots and the issue thus becomes a non-issue. The game is not over until you make the last ball, if it is THAT easy then take the 2 seconds to line up and shoot that easy shot in and now the game is over and the next can begin.
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I don't disagree that conceding the game is a lame-duck move, but the whole 'two game penalty' is a pretty lame response from tournament organizers thinking that pool players are like little children. The result is that some guy who may have no business winning a match against a real player somehow does because he gets a BS game award. If you must penalize game concessions, why not do it with a $100 fine for each concession? That way the other player wouldn't benefit in a way that he may not have earned.


Better yet would be to just ask the players not to do it and trust that they won't.

.
 
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Really poor attempt at humor and you definitely missed answering the question.

I like the idea of a FINE instead of loss of game. Maybe if more rules came with fines rather than fouls, only the RICH players instead of the REAL players would win.

Keep following only the rules you want to and you will lose more than just games.

gromulan said:
If you seriously have to ask then it's too late for you. My best advice is to take two weeks off from pool and then quit forever. Maybe get into duplicate bridge or something.
.

.
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well stated

Celtic said:
The rule is in place so that people do not use (and not use) concessions as a a sharking technique. I have seen it done countless times where a player is given a relatively difficult shot in one game only to be made to shoot a certain slightly easier shot in the next and expecting to get the concession they are not mentally ready to shoot it and then think more about them not getting the concession then thinking about the shot itself.

Concessions need to go, all tours and events should use the same rule until people figure it out and thus noone is giving people the shots and the issue thus becomes a non-issue. The game is not over until you make the last ball, if it is THAT easy then take the 2 seconds to line up and shoot that easy shot in and now the game is over and the next can begin.

I could just see is happen, pool finally gets back in the good graces with the Casino's and lines are made on a match for betting purposes. Those of us out there with some sense no that this is a huge positive shift for the sport that can create alot more interest and money for pool. The finals are taking place, the bets are out there, the score is hill hill, and the last game is conceded on a fairly tough 9 by a player who seems like he might have winked. The players are both happily shaking hands on a good match and the casino managers who upped some sponsorship money based on there income from the cage are just standing there moot, knowing this will be the last time they support pool in any way.

Concessions are just another pain in the neck of this sport, we are better doing away with this practice, it is unprofessional, it can be used for sharking and leads to arguements, it can be used to keep your opponent from shooting a few shots on an easy 4 ball layout with ball in hand in order to keep your opponent from loosening up after a long wait in their chair, and it can be used in ways not intended that are in no way going to help this sport.
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Nice post, sir. I think this is a great concept for tours and tourneys so that there is never a notion or thought given to concession. However if you and I play casually or match up, then it is difficult to not concede those ducks for whatever reason. Very tough to change this because we all play the casual games at some time or another when respect for your opponents ability to sink the last ball enters the game.

Green rep to you.
 
Celtic said:
The rule is in place so that people do not use (and not use) concessions as a a sharking technique. I have seen it done countless times where a player is given a relatively difficult shot in one game only to be made to shoot a certain slightly easier shot in the next and expecting to get the concession they are not mentally ready to shoot it and then think more about them not getting the concession then thinking about the shot itself.
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This is why the rule is in place. Theres one guy I play alot and he does this all the time. I bend down to shoot and he walks up to the table like hes gonna concede, then when I get up off the shot he says "no go ahead and shoot it". It doesn't get to me alot but then again its not the finals of the Texas open or the U.S open. If its a nit rule than its in place because all the nits out there make it necessary. Like the aforementioned one.

When EVERYONE out there plays the game with "honor" then rules like this wont be necessary, that'll never happen so like it or not this rule is necassary.
 
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TXsouthpaw said:
This is why the rule is in place. Theres one guy I play alot and he does this all the time. I bend down to shoot and he walks up to the table like hes gonna concede, then when I get up off the shot he says "no go ahead and shoot it". It doesn't get to me alot but then again its not the finals of the Texas open or the U.S open. If its a nit rule than its in place because all the nits out there make it necessary. Like the aforementioned one.

When EVERYONE out there plays the game with "honor" then rules like this wont be necessary, that'll never happen so like it or not this rule is necassary.
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And yet you keep playing him?

That's what I tried to say originally. Nitty players or angle shooters should not get action from anyone ever.
 
I'm curious

gromulan said:
If you must penalize game concessions, why not do it with a $100 fine for each concession? That way the other player wouldn't benefit in a way that he may not have earned.


Better yet would be to just ask the players not to do it and trust that they won't.

.
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How is the tourney director gonna fine a player $100 for a rules violation? Most pool players ain't got food money when they arrive at a tournament. Sorry, it's called sarcasm. But I honestly don't think a fine will work. They may follow the rules a little closer though if it costs them a match once.
 
TXsouthpaw said:
This is why the rule is in place. Theres one guy I play alot and he does this all the time. I bend down to shoot and he walks up to the table like hes gonna concede, then when I get up off the shot he says "no go ahead and shoot it".

When EVERYONE out there plays the game with "honor" then rules like this wont be necessary, that'll never happen so like it or not this rule is necassary.
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I usually think most pool players are too quick to label someone a "nit". In this case, however, that's a total nit move...

The only reason he would do something like that is because he doesn't think he can beat you fairly, so he's trying to get into your head.

I'm waiting and hoping for the day when everyone plays this beautiful game with honor....but I'm not holding my breath.
 
Celtic said:
The rule is in place so that people do not use (and not use) concessions as a a sharking technique. I have seen it done countless times where a player is given a relatively difficult shot in one game only to be made to shoot a certain slightly easier shot in the next and expecting to get the concession they are not mentally ready to shoot it and then think more about them not getting the concession then thinking about the shot itself.

Concessions need to go, all tours and events should use the same rule until people figure it out and thus noone is giving people the shots and the issue thus becomes a non-issue. The game is not over until you make the last ball, if it is THAT easy then take the 2 seconds to line up and shoot that easy shot in and now the game is over and the next can begin.

I could just see is happen, pool finally gets back in the good graces with the Casino's and lines are made on a match for betting purposes. Those of us out there with some sense no that this is a huge positive shift for the sport that can create alot more interest and money for pool. The finals are taking place, the bets are out there, the score is hill hill, and the last game is conceded on a fairly tough 9 by a player who seems like he might have winked. The players are both happily shaking hands on a good match and the casino managers who upped some sponsorship money based on there income from the cage are just standing there moot, knowing this will be the last time they support pool in any way.

Concessions are just another pain in the neck of this sport, we are better doing away with this practice, it is unprofessional, it can be used for sharking and leads to arguements, it can be used to keep your opponent from shooting a few shots on an easy 4 ball layout with ball in hand in order to keep your opponent from loosening up after a long wait in their chair, and it can be used in ways not intended that are in no way going to help this sport.
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Right on the money.Rules are rules, if you don't like a rule in a tournament
don't play in it.

The IDIOT is the person who coined the phase
"Rules are made to br Broken"
 
satman said:
I have seen a TOP Pro player at a tourney, miss a ball, and rake in 3 or 4 balls. The opponent breaks, don't make a ball, and the guy don't get out, and again rakes the balls. I have heard of an instance where this top rated player did this during a set, not letting the other guy shoot at a ball, other than when the guy makes a ball on th break. Thus helping keep the guy from getting a chance to get into stroke. Are you gonna say that's fair? I understand your thinking it being a NIT rule, but it has a legitimate purpose. They play this {or did} at DCC. Along with a rule for a loss of game for tapping the balls when you're racking.The main thing is if you play in a tourney, you need to know the rules, and try not to lose a set due to a rule violation.
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Not a good comparison, but I get your point. Someone that rake's the table should probably be DQ'ed. I'm not saying that the rules should not be followed. I just think that this particular rule is ridiculous. If my opponent has a ball in hand or just as easy of shot to win the game, I'll give it to him as a sign of respect and to speed up the match. This rule is not going to keep the sharks from pulling childish antics. If I am playing someone and they fake a concession on me...they get one warning.

NIT rule#2: Three foul, loss of game. C'mon man, this is 9 ball. It's an offensive game made to be played, not ducked. This is for hacks, not sticks. Besides, it takes too long and that is bad for tournaments.

NIT rule #3: Someone else please fill in the blank.
 
I dont ever remember seeing a football game with one team in the red zone and the other team say "thats good".......Ron
 
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