Run This (16)
- Thread starter CueAndMe
- Start date
To end, I like 7, 6, break with the 2. Getting there is a little tricky with the 5-10 block and the 11. You would really like to save the 3 to get on the 7 but it looks like it has to go earlier.
An alternative is to use the 5 as the break with the 3 as the key ball.
An alternative is to use the 5 as the break with the 3 as the key ball.
Woohoo, I get the first shot at it. I like either the 6 or the 2 for the break shot. I chose the 2 this time but would switch to the 6 if I screwed up a position along the way.
MULLY
By the way, the first shot on the 10 might be a bit difficult to hold up for that second shot but you're not really going to get a better chance to get rid of it and on a slower table you can probably get away with it.
MULLY
By the way, the first shot on the 10 might be a bit difficult to hold up for that second shot but you're not really going to get a better chance to get rid of it and on a slower table you can probably get away with it.
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I went for what I thought was the easiest and most practical.
I saw that 11 and it was really not doing the end pattern any favors, so I went with the 3 in the corner, playing for the 11 down to the opposite corner. This way I get rid of the 11 with minimal cue ball movement.
I play the 11 down in the corner - drawing back for the 7 in the side
Which sets me up for the easy 7-2-5-10 - 6
The 2 was closer to the rack, but I felt as if the 6 ball gave me more room to come in one rail from the 10.
There are others that I like, I really like the 5 as a break ball too, but with the 11 there, I need to eliminate the 3 early, and IMO the 3 was the most workable key ball to get on the 5.
First I hesitated which ball to leave as a key ball. I didn't want to leave 10 for some reason and tried to plan a run to get shape on break 5 ball from either 6 or 2. But finished with 10 as a key eventually.
With stop shot on 7 I get angle to get to 3-11 after pocketing the 2. I should try to stay slightly above the 6 playing position on it to use side rail if I'm not straight on the 6 (which I don't fancy anyway). I marked the zone on the 10 from where I can get nice angle on the break ball 5 (dunno why but the 10 keeps disappearing from the table if I draw like this). Short rail will help me a lot with speed control.
My second attempt to play for side-rack break on 2. I love 6 as a key ball. With my first shot on the 3 I rey to barely get past the 5 and pocket the 10. Note that if I fail and underrun being blocked by the orange 5, I have the 7 and 11 as insurance balls to keep my run.
Note that if I fail and underrun being blocked by the orange 5, I have the 7 and 11 as insurance balls to keep my run. The end (11-10) is somewhat tricky then but it pays off imo.
mullyman, I like your post #4 variant.
Blackjack, I would fear playing 10 to 6 position (it's pinpoint imo). May be at the table it looks different but with overhead look I would either run into 6 after being too far on the 10 - or leave myself too shallow angle and be forced to apply too much English.
btw I'm curious how to add text comment for a certain ball like BJ did.
With stop shot on 7 I get angle to get to 3-11 after pocketing the 2. I should try to stay slightly above the 6 playing position on it to use side rail if I'm not straight on the 6 (which I don't fancy anyway). I marked the zone on the 10 from where I can get nice angle on the break ball 5 (dunno why but the 10 keeps disappearing from the table if I draw like this). Short rail will help me a lot with speed control.
My second attempt to play for side-rack break on 2. I love 6 as a key ball. With my first shot on the 3 I rey to barely get past the 5 and pocket the 10. Note that if I fail and underrun being blocked by the orange 5, I have the 7 and 11 as insurance balls to keep my run.
Note that if I fail and underrun being blocked by the orange 5, I have the 7 and 11 as insurance balls to keep my run. The end (11-10) is somewhat tricky then but it pays off imo.
mullyman, I like your post #4 variant.
Blackjack, I would fear playing 10 to 6 position (it's pinpoint imo). May be at the table it looks different but with overhead look I would either run into 6 after being too far on the 10 - or leave myself too shallow angle and be forced to apply too much English.
btw I'm curious how to add text comment for a certain ball like BJ did.
Vahmurka
I had the same concerns that you did on the 10 ball, which is why I switched from the 2 to the 6 for the break ball. I could get in there from where I diagrammed it - kind of hard to tell with a birds-eye view - but for me, I like the pattern I diagrammed.
As far as the text -
There is a text button on the CueTable toolbar - click on it and you will have a box appear - It will say
"Enter Text Here"
You type inside that box... when you are finished, Double click anywhere outside the box to get the box to close.
You can then move the box to you desired location by dragging it.
To remove the text, just click the box and delete the text.
Hope that helps.
I had the same concerns that you did on the 10 ball, which is why I switched from the 2 to the 6 for the break ball. I could get in there from where I diagrammed it - kind of hard to tell with a birds-eye view - but for me, I like the pattern I diagrammed.
As far as the text -
There is a text button on the CueTable toolbar - click on it and you will have a box appear - It will say
"Enter Text Here"
You type inside that box... when you are finished, Double click anywhere outside the box to get the box to close.
You can then move the box to you desired location by dragging it.
To remove the text, just click the box and delete the text.
Hope that helps.
I am wetodded so it took me a couple of tries to get the cuetable up there. This should really be a button available in the quick reply section as well. I thought I was crazy when I couldn't find it.
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Blackjack said:
Jack, do you agree though that there is a big possibility of getting hooked behind the 5 coming from the 3 for position? In my opinion coming off the 3 for the 10 is just trying to get less of an angle than what you have on the first shot and if that's what you're attempting you stand a huge chance of getting hooked. Coming off that 3 puts you just about where you started if you want to hit it firm enough to insure you don't get snookered there. That's why I decided on taking the 10 first in that first run I did. Holding it up down there would seem to be the only big problem to me because I wouldn't want to baby that shot.
MULLY
bluepepper said:
With the 6/2 options and the 7 as a perfect keyball, I'd probably not opt for the behind-the-rack breakshot here.
I am usually the first one to opt for the below-the-rack breakshot, but the 10 ball is in a bad spot for the key ball.
In the diagram below, I slightly changed the positions of the 3, 5, 10, and 7. The 3-10 is now laying perfectly for an end pattern to the 5 as a breakshot. The 5 is now laying better as a breakshot than in the original diagram, and I had to move the 7 so we'd have a better opening shot.
In this new layout, I would very much consider playing for the behind-the-rack breakshot. It's high-yielding, it's easy to get to, it's virtually unmissable, and there's no risk of getting stuck to the rack. Keep doing that and you'll run a lot of balls.
- Steve
Thank you Blackjack, I was aware of how to add text to the layout but had no idea about dragging possibility. You explained it to the bone.Blackjack said:
As for starting with 10 right away I didn't like it because the cut angle is too sharp and the cb will travel quite a distance imo. Hence my suggestion to improve cb position a bit IF you want to deal with 10 sooner than later.
It is usually easier on a Cuetable than in reality. I think if we set up this shot and look at it we wouldn't like to start with 10. You wouldn't want babying this shot trying to hold a cueball (which is necessary I suppose).
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mullyman said:
Mully
When I looked at this layout, the first thing that popped up at me was the 11 ball. That is why I shot the 3 ball first - it was an easy shot to get to that ball.
Here's the lesson -
Say in Bluepepper's layout, your opponent has just missed and it's your shot. When I come to the table and evaluate what is there and what is not there, I look for the balls that serve a purpose - and balls that DO NOT serve a purpose.
To me, that 11 ball is sort of out in the woods - it is not part f my end pattern - and its close to that rail... so shooting the 3 first and getting to it as soon as possible - that goes back to something I learned from John Schmidt - it's a problem - it's actually a straggler - work to get on that ball get rid of that as soon as possible. That is how I see that ball, so I started with the 3 to get rid of the 11 ball and then I enter the contained area around the rack to get on my break ball.
Would I ever go from the 3 to the 5? Not me. I go from the 3 to the 11 - then I try to get inside where those other balls are laying beautifully.
This is one of those layouts where you have multiple options. The decisions players will make will be based on what shots and patterns keep them in their comfort zone. There are no wrong answers unless you miss - or crash into something when you don't have to.
Steve, you have me wondering what makes the 5-ball a better break shot after it was moved slightly toward the foot rail.
Mine is almost exactly like Mully's second post. I came off of the 11 a little differently, and I ended up with the 10 ball as the break shot instead of the 5.
Mine is almost exactly like Mully's second post. I came off of the 11 a little differently, and I ended up with the 10 ball as the break shot instead of the 5.
bluepepper said:
Bluepepper - look at the below diagram both pages - it will explain why Steve's layout is easier to work with for a behind the stack break ball on the 5 - look at both pages...
Also, I don't like using that shot on the 10 for a break ball - at all - for me that shot looks a little itchy... the 5 sits pretty.
The 10 ball looks right on the edge of being usable. It depends how the WEI graphically represents the rack area. On a standard table with lines drawn for 14.1, you must remember that the corner ball will be quite a bit to the inside of the line. I'm not sure if the WEI does this as well.
OK, I just checked, and it looks like WEI does this. Because of this space, to me it looks like the 10 is unusable, as you won't be able to hit the rack.
Even if you could just barely clip it, you'd only be hitting the edge of the outer ball, which I don't like. Not enough energy is transferred to the rack, and the cueball will really go flying.
I moved the 5 because your original position of it would lead me to hit a bit too much towards the inside of the rack. It looked like the original position would have the cueball strike the 2nd ball on the inside part of it - I would rather hit between the 1st and 2nd ball or at least towards the outer part of the 2nd ball.
If I had to use the first position of the 5, I'd possibly (I'd have to see it live to know for sure) play it with inside to go 3 rails. As pretty as that shot is, I find it to be more missable and more subject to bad kisses than the standard outside english shot. As our goal is to run balls, not look pretty (
), your original position of the 5 was one of the reasons I would have stuck with the 6/2 options. It is a very minute difference between our diagrams but in my mind it changes everything.
When I am looking at an open table and I find a ball lying exactly where I like it under the rack, with a nice end-pattern available to get to it, I will choose it over most side-of-the-rack breakshots. That is how effective (and easy to play for) I find these balls.
- Steve
OK, I just checked, and it looks like WEI does this. Because of this space, to me it looks like the 10 is unusable, as you won't be able to hit the rack.
Even if you could just barely clip it, you'd only be hitting the edge of the outer ball, which I don't like. Not enough energy is transferred to the rack, and the cueball will really go flying.
I moved the 5 because your original position of it would lead me to hit a bit too much towards the inside of the rack. It looked like the original position would have the cueball strike the 2nd ball on the inside part of it - I would rather hit between the 1st and 2nd ball or at least towards the outer part of the 2nd ball.
If I had to use the first position of the 5, I'd possibly (I'd have to see it live to know for sure) play it with inside to go 3 rails. As pretty as that shot is, I find it to be more missable and more subject to bad kisses than the standard outside english shot. As our goal is to run balls, not look pretty (
), your original position of the 5 was one of the reasons I would have stuck with the 6/2 options. It is a very minute difference between our diagrams but in my mind it changes everything.When I am looking at an open table and I find a ball lying exactly where I like it under the rack, with a nice end-pattern available to get to it, I will choose it over most side-of-the-rack breakshots. That is how effective (and easy to play for) I find these balls.
- Steve
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(Incidentally, my reply above was to bluepepper - blackjack and I were composing at the same time I guess...)