running out/planning positio

LOL Neil based on your "how would you play this?" posts I would have been upset if you had replied any other way....

By nature I am of the if I can see it I can make it camp... It has been with great difficulty that I have been attempting to change camps...

Here is why......

On a forgiving table safety play is not as effective as sitting your opponent in their chair while you string racks with a healthy does of circus shots intermixed. I grew up on generous 9footers and 8-overs that would reward aggression... Keep from hooking yourself and you could run out..... Do it enough and you run over your opponent like a steam roller.....

For several years I watched the pro matches and every time they ducked I thought to myself "man what a chump" I coulda fired that in and came around table for position.....

Then I went to the US Open for the first time... Rodney Morris fired a long rail bank playing Donny Mills and it stuck in my head... It stuck in my head because it was the only long table bank I saw attempted in the matches I watched all week long that wasn't also a 2way safe... He missed it by 2 inches.... Mills ended up beating him but in hindsight Rodney needed something to happen right then so I think that the bank WAS the right shot for the occasion....

I got to hit balls on the TV table that trip and came away with a little better understanding of what the differences were in the equipment.....
You hit it perfect or you sit down....

The next year when I went back to the Open my game had taken on a little more defense but I still didn't quite understand how the world class players calculated percentages and I still shot at lots of shots that I could make that offered safety options even knowing many would be considered circus shots....

Then Pat Fleming did me a great favor and asked me to score some of the matches on the TV table using the Accu-Stats formulas.... I sort of knew what the Accu-Stats ratings were as I had seen them for years on the matches but until I actually scored some matches I didn't understand the difference between Professional pool and shortstop pool....

It's not just about playing great it's about playing perfect....

number of balls made divided by number of balls shot at plus errors.....

You can make a position error and recover and you are forgiven the error but if you make a position error AND shoot the next ball and miss you get the position error and the miss...If you play safe you only get the position error....

If you miss a shot easier than a spot shot you get 2 errors...

Missing a shot harder than a spot shot only costs you 1 error.... But odds are unless your opponent left it for you you are gonna get the position error to go with it.....

A safety error is only given IF you allow the incoming to make the ball.....

After scoring the matches I left the Open understanding a little more about the percentages....

Harder than a spot shot is subjective. It may be harder to you than me or vice versa but I came home and decided that anything I saw that I thought was harder than a spot shot would automatically having me looking for a safety or a 2way when shooting it.... I still have some circus shots I love to shoot that I would bet are way harder for most people than a spot shot but it's up to me to make that determination....

I do this now even on loose tables in practice... I may shoot a few more circus shots in a match if the table is forgiving but I won't stray to far... I want to attempt to play the game the way you have to play it at the highest level to be successful under the toughest conditions....

They call Efren the Magician because of circus shots but if you watch his matches you will realize that they don't happen all the time... He comes with them when he needs them... Usually late in a tournament when he has to rise to an occasion.... He didn't shoot them every game every match to get to the finals... Even the Magician would run out of magic trying to play that way under tournament conditions playing other world class players.....
 
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Then I went to the US Open for the first time... Rodney Morris fired a long rail bank playing Donny Mills and it stuck in my head... It stuck in my head because it was the only long table bank I saw attempted in the matches I watched all week long that wasn't also a 2way safe... He missed it by 2 inches.... Mills ended up beating him but in hindsight Rodney needed something to happen right then so I think that the bank WAS the right shot for the occasion....

There are certain positions where the safe is too weak, difficult, or even impossible, so the bank is actually the easist shot - even on a tight table. He may not have had much choice.

That being said, I play a lot more defense than I ever did, and I see even more in my future.

Chris
 
When

you watch pro matches, how many bank shots do you see? Right, you will be lucky to see 1. They play safe because the percentages are with them being cautious than trying to perform some circus shot.

I look over the table, decide whether I can run the table, whether I have to break up clusters evaluating what position I will need to break the cluster, if I can't I decide on what ball I will play a safe and the best postion to be at to play the safe. The sooner you can take care of 'problem' balls, the better off you will be.

And one other thing, I am not a cherry picker by nature. My motto is, if you don't like the table, change it, and I do. I will break out balls to a more acceptable layout rather than trying to cherry pick all the time.
 
One more thing to think about for shot selection is the score. If you are faced with a do or die shot vs a so-so safety, if I have a good lead, I will play the so-so safety and make my opponent come with a good shot. If it might be my last turn at the table, I am shooting, no questions asked.
 
Much good advice so far, so I won't give my own advice except to reiterate a few things that I too think are very important:

- Noticing any problems in the beginning and starting to formulate a plan to address them

- Center of the table, as Blackjack said, is your friend, and having an intuitive knowledge of when you absolutely have to leave that area is good

- Paying attention to what side of the ball you need to be on for the next shot (looking ahead in groups or 2/3), also trying to isolate any shots where getting a very specific angle or getting as close as posisble to the ball is critical. Most of the time you have a decent amount of leeway, and it's up to you to screw it up (which I do frequently...)


What you are working on now is something that I struggle with from time to time as well. I get too analytical and worry about what the absolutely "proper" shot is, sometimes even why I'm shooting it! I've gone back and forth sometimes as to whether for instance 1 rail straight back is better than 2 rails out of the corner, I've seen both used well by pro players. I try to watch matches and see what works and listen to the commentators and pick out situations where most players would play something the same way and when it's really just personal preference. Guys like Grady and Billy are great and isloating these things during commentary, and for me at least once I see these situations and can firmly decide on an approach it just keeps removing doubt slowly from my game and allows me to just concentrate on pocketing the ball cleanly.

Scott
 
Cleary, here's a typical 9 ball layout. Show how you would run them out if you could play the position you want to on each shot. Please, let Cleary do this first before anyone else chimes in on how to run them. You get to start with BIH.

CueTable Help


Neil, I gotta take a look at this tonight after work, I don't have the plugin on my work computer here. But I'm looking forward to checking this out tonight.
 
Neil, I gotta take a look at this tonight after work, I don't have the plugin on my work computer here. But I'm looking forward to checking this out tonight.

If anyone could post a screen shot of this layout rather than the cuetable, I would appreciate it. I'm freelancing at a place that will not allow me to install shockwave on this machine.
 
hmm.JPG

there u go...
 

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If anyone could post a screen shot of this layout rather than the cuetable, I would appreciate it. I'm freelancing at a place that will not allow me to install shockwave on this machine.

Here you go.
 

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This is the kind of exercise that really helps someone figure out position play. Neil has cleverly arranged the balls to offer a few different options, and those seemingly small choices will make the table a lot easier or a lot more difficult.

One thing I would like to mention is that position play is always an ongoing "work in progress". No matter how good your cue ball control is, you're going to make mistakes, not get your desired position, and have to make adjustments. This re-thinking is critical to success.


Chris
 
Here you go.

Thank you Guys for posting this.

I'll explain what I would try to do... My first thought is the 1, 2 and 3 are the hardest. Getting the correct angle on the 2 to the 3 is the key to the rack, after that it flows fairly easy.

1ball, pocket in the top right corner, following with a touch of outside off the long rail, between the 8&9 off the bottom long rail and to the bottom short rail.

Stun draw the 2 ball into the top left corner pocket playing the cueball just above the 5ball.

Pocket the 3ball in lower right corner, following 1rail off the short rail, to the upper center of the table leaving a small angle on the 4.

Stun the 4 in the top left corner to get straight in on the 5 or possibly a small angle either way.

Pocket the 5 in the lower side, follow the cueball fairly close to the rail.

Pocket the 6 in the lower right pocket, same way as the 3, following 1 rail to the center of the table, just north of Straight in on the 7

Pocket the 7 in the top left corner, drawing back for the 8

Pocket in the 8 in the bottom left orner and one rail out for the 9 in the same pocket.

What will actually happen? I'll hang the 1ball and scratch!
 
Thank you Guys for posting this.

I'll explain what I would try to do... My first thought is the 1, 2 and 3 are the hardest. Getting the correct angle on the 2 to the 3 is the key to the rack, after that it flows fairly easy.

1ball, pocket in the top right corner, following with a touch of outside off the long rail, between the 8&9 off the bottom long rail and to the bottom short rail.

Stun draw the 2 ball into the top left corner pocket playing the cueball just above the 5ball.

Pocket the 3ball in lower right corner, following 1rail off the short rail, to the upper center of the table leaving a small angle on the 4.

Stun the 4 in the top left corner to get straight in on the 5 or possibly a small angle either way.

Pocket the 5 in the lower side, follow the cueball fairly close to the rail.

Pocket the 6 in the lower right pocket, same way as the 3, following 1 rail to the center of the table, just north of Straight in on the 7

Pocket the 7 in the top left corner, drawing back for the 8

Pocket in the 8 in the bottom left orner and one rail out for the 9 in the same pocket.

What will actually happen? I'll hang the 1ball and scratch!

Where are you placing the CB on your first shot?
 
Yeah thats kind of what I was thinking. This run out really depends on your skill. If your good enough to get the correct position on all of the shots than run it. Otherwise draw whitey back to center table and lock up the two ball!
 
That 8 is a very big ball going that direction. It a big blimp on my radar.
 
True, so is the scratch but I would rather tango with the 8, what do you prefer?

Take the scratch and the 8/9 ball out of the shot-

Put the CB about a half diamond below the head spot and cut the 1 ball into the upper right corner, hit the long rail and try to go between the 2 and 9. You might need about a tip of draw(depending on your stroke). If you are short, you wont be hooked. If you are long, you wont scratch. The speed I'm shooting for is to make the CB hit the middle diamond and bounce off 8 inches.

Either way (long or short) you have a shot at cutting the 2 in. If your speed is way off, you should still be able to see the 2, to play safe.


Eric
 
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