Sad State of Pool

T

Troy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I posted this in another thread, but I think maybe it should stand alone ---

Promoters, like sponsors, require something in return for their investment. It's called BUSINESS. Most of them are fully aware that people will NOT pay even $5.00 for a worthwhile event. As a result, zero return on investment means zero promotion/sponsors.

Pool players are always trying to weasle free table time and won't even help support their "home room". I see it all the time -- "What time does FREE practice" start ??" prior to a tournament. "OK, I'll wait 'til then to get on a table". In the meantime, they wonder why it's not OK to bring in their outside soft drink instead of buying something from the pool room.

No wonder the room owners are fed up.
No wonder there are no promoters and/or sponsors.
No wonder the WPBA must PAY ESPN to broadcast and get what limited exposure thay have.
No wonder pool on TV is so bad.
Sad but true.

Troy
 
I have only been playing for a dz yrs but I have to say that pool players are the cheapest I have ever seen in over 40 yrs of organized sports. They think that the room owners "owe them" and you are a 100% right about the sodas and food. When a local room owner said that no more food and drink could be brought into the room where he offers food and drink I could not believe the bitching. So many of the players are near too being bums and have no concept of business or of fairness. Sometimes I wish that I did not enjoy the game soooooo much!
 
Gerald said:
I have only been playing for a dz yrs but I have to say that pool players are the cheapest I have ever seen in over 40 yrs of organized sports. They think that the room owners "owe them" and you are a 100% right about the sodas and food. When a local room owner said that no more food and drink could be brought into the room where he offers food and drink I could not believe the bitching. So many of the players are near too being bums and have no concept of business or of fairness. Sometimes I wish that I did not enjoy the game soooooo much!
Click to expand...

I dont know how my local room stays in business.They have 12 tables,a couple video games,thats it,some soda machines.Table time is their major source of income ,these tables have to be going 24/7 to be making anything.
Then when tournament time comes around $25.00 entry fee ,$5.00 goes to the room for expenses,you should hear the bitching..these guys are going to spend 5-6 hours having a good time for less than a dollar an hour..
God bless the poolroom owners...I dont know how they do it..
 
I used to own a couple of pool rooms and it can be an absolute nightmare to deal with some people. On the other hand, 11 years after I closed up I still have guys tell me how much they enjoyed the place. I feel I made a positive impact on at least a couple of them so it was worth all the headaches. Sam
 
satman said:
I used to own a couple of pool rooms and it can be an absolute nightmare to deal with some people. On the other hand, 11 years after I closed up I still have guys tell me how much they enjoyed the place. I feel I made a positive impact on at least a couple of them so it was worth all the headaches. Sam
Click to expand...
SINCE YOU WERE IN THE BUSINESS HOW DO YOU MAKE MONEY? WHAT % OF TABLE TIME IS MAIN INCOME ,AS COMPARED TO VIDEO AND VENDING MACHINES?ARE TOURNAMENTS A PROFITABLE VENTURE?
SOME ROOMS EVEN CHARGE TABLE TIME FOR GUYS THAT PLAY CARDS ALL DAY;2.50 AN HOUR PER PERSON TO SIT AT A TABLE AND PLAY CARDS..,SOMETIMES THIER SEEMED TO BE MORE INTEREST IN CARDS THAN POOL..
 
image

THE IMAGE AROUND OUR SPORT, STINKS,
After many years of doing my best to help our image, I still try. Pool-players, there are good ones and bad ones. [not ability, just image].One rotten apple!

The points that Troy has made are true. I have been on both sides of the fence.

Satman, I had a friend who owned 2 rooms, and he wouldn't let the guy bring in food and or drinks, and the leader of the so called pack, said, if you don't, we will go to another room. He said bye bye, and 3 month's later he closed both rooms and lost about 1/2 million dollars, along with his family..
Yep, because of one pool player who didn't believe in paying his own way........

I go to a tournament and buy a booth for displaying cues and doing cue-repair. I also donate a cue at "EVERY" one I attend.

One that I attended last year, the room-owner [promotor] told me I could not set up, but we will accept your cue. I was told that they didn't have room for me to set up.[there was room].I went ahead and honored my word and gave the cue anyway.
They took my cue, rasied the [retail],price from, $1,000.00 to $1,500.00 and made the remark, that this should make us extra money.
They were already being sponsered in whole by another group.[ sponsered in full with plenty to spare].........

Then was told not to sell any cues out of my trunk. [I don't sell cues as some carpet-baggers do, out of my trunk]. When ask about cues, we went to my motel room, and did my business there. Never told anyone to go to my room, they ask me about my cues.

This shows that they too[room-owners] are greedy sometimes.

The first event I was helping to promote was 20 some odd years ago in Tampa. Me and Grady help the "world all around championships". Price tag to get in was only $3.00 bucks. Had people complaining that it was high-way robery. Sneaking in, getting caught and then want to fight over 3 bucks.
We lost over 20 thousand bucks. We paid off, without a hitch.
No one complained then. However if we would of not been able to pay off, world war 3 would of been on.....

If our IMAGE can change, maybe, just maybe, we will get noticed..
Thanks to all who try to mprove pool's "IMAGE".
blud
 
Blud, I know a guy who worked for one of those room owners. He had 5-6 older guys that came in the room and played 3 cushion 4-5 and sometimes 6 days a week. Spent an average of 20 to $40 each every day. He got caught giving one of the guys a free refill of coffee instead of charging him 50 cents. The owner wanted him to go get the money and he paid it out of his pocket.
As far as not letting someone bring in food or drinks, I had extremely low prices on the items we offered. I had a very low investment and low overhead. I always treated people fair and allowed no swearing or fighting. We were'nt getting rich, but it was extra income. I had a full time job and my wife helped run the place. I had friends who helped us out by working real cheap and some free table time. The biggest problem I see at the tournaments we go to now is the cost of food and drinks. We had the BCA state tournament here and they were charging $3.50 a beer. most people can't pay that much over a 2-3 day event. This ain't pro football or basketball where they're trying to pay million dollar salaries. I know They could make more money at the pro events on concessions if they'd drop the prices to a somewhat affordable level so the spectators don't feel like they're getting gouged. Sam
 
What a great thread ! As a customer this has been one of my pet peeves over the years. The guys that think there owner owes them something for just being there... or worse if they happen to have a good pool game. A few years ago a really good player came into Anchorage and started living in his car in the parking lot ( the manager and I started referring to him as “Stinky” for obvious reasons, so I won’t mention his name here) Although Stinky clamed he was in a transitional period in his life and played little pool he would hang out drink water, bitch about the price of a coffee refill and engage in constant banter of “what they should do”. After some infraction the manager informed Stinky that he could not come in for 30 days. He began ranting about the hundreds of thousands of dollars the management is giving up by not letting him in ! People like that just litter up the room. Winter began to set in so Stinky headed south. If everyone paid their way and didn't get there panties in a bunch when they think someone ( the owner) is making a buck or two things would be better for all of us that don’t mind paying full price for food, booze or table time, it’s just the price of having FUN. One little thing I practice in conducting my own personal business is that I don’t give action to people that are doing it just for the money. People that are playing only trying to get in my pocket don’t get a game with me, whether I can/will win or not. I won‘t encourage it or contribute action to it. These are the same sort that bring in their own soda , bitch about table time etc.
 
Coffee's Free

satman said:
Blud, I know a guy who worked for one of those room owners. He had 5-6 older guys that came in the room and played 3 cushion 4-5 and sometimes 6 days a week. Spent an average of 20 to $40 each every day. He got caught giving one of the guys a free refill of coffee instead of charging him 50 cents. The owner wanted him to go get the money and he paid it out of his pocket.
As far as not letting someone bring in food or drinks, I had extremely low prices on the items we offered. I had a very low investment and low overhead. I always treated people fair and allowed no swearing or fighting. We were'nt getting rich, but it was extra income. I had a full time job and my wife helped run the place. I had friends who helped us out by working real cheap and some free table time. The biggest problem I see at the tournaments we go to now is the cost of food and drinks. We had the BCA state tournament here and they were charging $3.50 a beer. most people can't pay that much over a 2-3 day event. This ain't pro football or basketball where they're trying to pay million dollar salaries. I know They could make more money at the pro events on concessions if they'd drop the prices to a somewhat affordable level so the spectators don't feel like they're getting gouged. Sam
Click to expand...

That is so sad, Sam. The owner begrudging a very good customer an occasional free re-fill on coffee.

I am sure if and when you get to visit my favorite room, Southern Billiards in Starkville, MS, you will find the Professor and his entire family bending over backwards to please you as he does all his customers. I believe this attitude has been adopted by virtually all of his regular customers. Contagious, you might say.

The Professor sells hotdogs, pizza, corndogs and alike at ridiculously low prices, yet allows food from the outside. As a matter of fact, he just might ask you to bring him something back when you go out to get food.

Like Breakup said, every room is going to have a few, "Stinkys" from time to time but it seems like the nicer the owner is the fewer "Stinkys" there are.

And yes, the coffee is always free at Southern Billiards.
 
I'll be glad when all Tournaments have a cover charge, if the Pool Room owner will offer up what JOB does in Nashville. If you want to watch the Tournament action, you will have to pay for the privilege. The Camel Tour in Tulsa used to offer big bleachers at that annual tournament with beverage & food service.

There are about four UPSCALE Pool Rooms in Tulsa. Just about all of them have large Tournaments. No one is charged a dime to enter & watch. Even the drinks & food are reasonable. All of these Pool Rooms are busier than a beehive just about daily. Just about every golf course on the planet has good equipment for sale & someone offering to give lessons, so that your game & enjoyment increases. There's not 300 teachers listed on the BCA Instructors list (active & inactive), worldwide. There's literally 2 dozen Pool Halls within a 50 mile radius of my home & no one offers lessons. I can only imagine how many beer joint players have a $300 + Pool Cue & no idea how to use it.

Some Pool Players just aren't classy people. I really enjoy casually dressing up, going to one of the big Rooms, sitting in a luxurious Leather spectator Chair & playing on a Diamond Pro 9 footer with a Big Diamond Pool table light (not some cheap two lamp fluorescent fixture). It's like I'm somebody special for a few hours. I live in a small town north of Tulsa & my small Pool Room is a shithole. It's actually turned in to a big baby sitting center with loud music, illiterate patrons, rude patrons, kids hanging on the walls & poor service. I'm preparing to move away to another town, just because my hangout has been degraded to level of SHITHOLE. My BreakRAK business is also getting better & I need to find a Pool room with a Big Tournament agenda so I can sponsor one.

Having spent several years of my life as a Golf Professional (assistant Pro at Colonial Country Club in Ft. Worth Texas) I can truly say that gambling is also a way of life in that sport too, but somehow doesn't come off as a dirty.
But remember this, there's a big difference between a dingy smoke filled room & a beautifully landscaped park. And most times an absolutely magnificent 19th HOLE is the scene of high dollar gaming. People don't mind paying Big Bucks to watch the Golf Players ... by the way, some of them sleep in their cars, just about all of them have a foul mouth (they get that from the rich), some of them are dopers, some cheat on their wives, some are theives & some are worth killing, but they are still revered... it's a phony image, gilded by a thin layer of gold.

Golf was a game for the rich, just a Billiards used to be. Every Golf Course on the planet has your hustlers, just like the Pool Rooms, but again the scenery is better. If you will think about it... look at the hoards of people that flock to casinos around the planet to "try their luck". People also think that if the rich are doing it, it must be good. People enjoy rubbing shoulders with the rich, there's always a chance of something rubbing off.

If gambling made the sport bad, the frigging Stock Market would be like shunned like a "shithole" by businessmen worldwide, but everyone likes the rush, that a risk provides. All of your brokerage houses are considered first class businesses & we all know that a good percentage of the Stock brokers are theives.

A $30,000 ring game on ESPN would garner more TV Audience than any poker game.... because of one thing... the folks are DOING SOMETHING that requires talent. Imagine a couple of good commentators chatting with the stake Horses while their pony was strokin'... There's NO BLUFF shooting a 3-railer for $500 a player. Once the audience arrived, the RING GAME would go to 50K, then a 100K, then who knows...

When the entreprenuers give back some of what they take, all of the Billiard Equipment folks band together as sponsors & Frito-Lay, Budweiser & the rest of the concession folks are corraled to cough up some sponsor money, you'll see a lot of UPSCALE Beautiful Pool Rooms & Big Dollar Tournaments. BCA had a good start by charging the business community $500 or $1000 to be a member, but I can't tell you where the money or if it done a damn thing for the game.

Money gets everybody's attention.... cb
 
Ceebee, You say golf has hustlers and thieves just like pool. The big difference is they keep the stuff hidden better. Imagine what would happen if the sponsors and the PGA found out the players were splitting up the pot before the tournament. Or one of the big skins games and one player is obviously dumping to his buddy and then bragging about it. Would the PGA penalize that player? My guess is he would be in the deep rough. It's time the more honest players and the true lovers of our sport band together to help clean up the image and push the low-life people back to the shadows. If you know these people, refuse to give them action, stake them or even side bet their matches. Don't give them any prestige by bragging about how good they cheat. Make them get a job or earn a living by playing as an honest player. Sam
 
If Iron Chef can make it onto TV and develop a following, there has to be some way that Pool can get popular!
 
RACK 'EM Pool Room in Aurora, Colorado

Avoid that poolroom because the owner, Rich, is a real cheap bastard. I SAID BASTARD. I'm a chiropractor and he wanted me to give him chiropractic adjustments in exchange for one Budweiser instead of Anchor Steam Beer. "Too expensive to give you Anchor Steam Beer.", he quipped. Well, I took my business elsewhere in the Denver area. And after I explained our interaction to several pool room owners, they all agreed on one thing: "Rich is responsible for generating a lot of business at our pool halls!"

Go figure.
 
Last edited:
Steam

Williebetmore said:
What the hell is Anchor Steam beer? I've never heard of it - is it worth looking for??
Click to expand...

Anchor Steam is a steam brewed beer from SF. Use to be brewed and served on the waterfront. That is wher the expression " Out Of Steam" came from.
Excellant beer. They also make a Christmas Special " herbal" beer. Very nice brew.
Don P. :D
 
This thread really makes me count my blessings and appreciate the owners of my favorite local pool hall. My regular spot is Doc & Eddy's in Albuquerque. I go 3-4 times a week and take my wife with me at least once a week. I probably put in 10-15 hours a week on the tables. Every time I, or we, go, we are greeted by name, given our favorite table if available, a pitcher of iced tea is sent over whether I am with my wife or not, and a cute and friendly waitress checks on us at least every 15-30 minutes. Food is good and reasonable. Last week, my wife left early and I stayed a couple hours longer. When I left, the owner told me she forgot to take my wife off the clock for the table, so it was all on the house for that day. Wow. This is not an upscale or downscale place. It caters to all kinds of folks, but give really good, friendly, fair service, and takes good care of their equipment. It's been there for about 25 years and is still going strong. Without fail, I eat, drink and tip to show my appreciation. Great place.
rayjay
 
Anchor Steam sells for approximately $7.50 a sixer. It's beer fermented at higher temperatures than usual hence the moniker "Steam".
 
Troy,

Let me tell you what a couple of room owners said to me after hosting one of my tournaments. They were so impressed with the professional courtesy and overall sportsmanship of the members of my tour that they debated hosting another men's tournament in the future.

Why? Because most men players are cheap. They try to sneak their own food into an establishment or they'll just eat in the parking lot. They don't purchase the RO's beverages, they'll sneak in their own.

It's a different attitude with the women - more like a weekend out to hang together and socialize and play some jam up pool, to boot. At JPNEWT's first event at Prime Time Billiards, the RO scrambled to get the kitchen up and running and was damn pleased he did because all we did was sit and sweat matches and eat and drink all weekend. And their food was great, too!! After it was all over, the ROs told me that we spoiled them and couldn't believe how much fun hosting us was. They want us back and will throw in some more money added or spring for two Qualifiers. Great!! All you have to do is show the RO some respect and support his business and things will happen.

Of course, I know that there is the flip side of the coin and ROs out there that could care less. Luckily, I haven't come across one yet.

I run my tournaments on time, start early in the day so I can get out of the RO's nighttime biz, and have a zero tolerance for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Host a women's event and see what happens.

Barbara

Troy said:
I posted this in another thread, but I think maybe it should stand alone ---

Promoters, like sponsors, require something in return for their investment. It's called BUSINESS. Most of them are fully aware that people will NOT pay even $5.00 for a worthwhile event. As a result, zero return on investment means zero promotion/sponsors.

Pool players are always trying to weasle free table time and won't even help support their "home room". I see it all the time -- "What time does FREE practice" start ??" prior to a tournament. "OK, I'll wait 'til then to get on a table". In the meantime, they wonder why it's not OK to bring in their outside soft drink instead of buying something from the pool room.

No wonder the room owners are fed up.
No wonder there are no promoters and/or sponsors.
No wonder the WPBA must PAY ESPN to broadcast and get what limited exposure thay have.
No wonder pool on TV is so bad.
Sad but true.

Troy
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top