Safes and Kicking More Important that pocketing balls

[Mikey Town]

I don't know about you or anyone else, but I don't play pool because it's an easy game, nor do I want to make it easier for me aside from me actually learning to play better. There are some aids in sports or other areas that are not allowed even if they are new and will make things easier. Chess players don't take out their smartphones and look up a database of moves when they are playing, there was even a new swimsuit that was banned because they made things too fast. You can have some funky ground effects on race cars but it's very controlled so as to keep things even and let the driver have some part in the victory.

We could all play on 5.5" pockets with laser sight aiming on our cues if the goal is to make things easier.

My post was regarding jump cues... Not pocket size, or anything else you mentioned.

Do certain limits need to be controlled? Sure, but that's the case with any competitive game/sport.

None of us play pool because it's an "easy game." However, the idea that the introduction of the jump cue makes pool an "easy game" is absurd.

While it takes away from one skill (kicking), it introduces jumping as a new skill. Far too many people assume that a shot becomes automatic just because you can pull out a jump cue... A jump shot is difficult, just like a kick shot is difficult... They are separate skills that need to be practiced if you want to utilize them as a strength.

 

[koskimomin]

Yeah, you are right

 

[koskimomin]

Yeah,i think you are saying it true.

 

[Tommy Joe]

It seems to me after watching the last 5 major 10 ball tournaments that safes and kicking has become a lot more important than ball pocketing skills. This is why I think the no jump cue rule is the way to go in 10 ball. JMI that it make for a more skilled game. Also a 40 sec shot clock with 1 ext. a game would be good. Johnnyt

The older I get the more I see and appreciate that defense is more important than offense in all sports and maybe all competitions period. Please don't argue with me about this, I am not in the mood to be put on the defensive. I'm serious though, I love good defense in all endeavors even though I was never good at using it myself. I remember when just hitting the object ball after getting hooked was a big deal. Now they play out of the safety and put one on their opponent, and sometimes it goes back and forth a while, and I think that's very exciting actually. The tighter pockets took the dance out of the game. I think you've got to step more careful now. I no longer play and was never as good as I thought I was even when I did play - although I wasn't bad - but anyway, just from what I've seen on tv (and I've seen plenty of pros play in person), I believe the level of safety play has improved, and I respect it. Defense. Hey, I'm a Steeler fan.

TJ

TJ

 

[CJ Wiley]

There's not much strategy in the present rules and the reasons are simple

It seems to me after watching the last 5 major 10 ball tournaments that safes and kicking has become a lot more important than ball pocketing skills. This is why I think the no jump cue rule is the way to go in 10 ball. JMI that it make for a more skilled game. Also a 40 sec shot clock with 1 ext. a game would be good. Johnnyt

There's not much strategy in the present rules, basically you do one of two things - try to run our or play safe (then the opponent has to "kick" at the ball which has a lot of luck involved)... it's almost as boring{strategically}as bowling where you try to make a strike or attempt to make a spare.

Two Shot Push Out brings in hundreds of times more strategy to the game, which some like and some do not. I, personally like to see more strategy where you are testing each other for weaknesses and strengths during the course of the match. You simply can't do this playing one foul rules.

 

[trob]

There is no group in games or sports more close minded to change then pool players lol Hell gloves have been around for more then 20 years and even though it makes complete sense when you use one and have the same stroke every time players still make fun of it. Golfers have different clubs depending on the situation why shouldn't we.

Jumping adds another element to the game. It doesn't have to be either/or. You have to decide is this a jumping situation or is it better that I kick at it? It's just another acquired skill.

How about next we have an argument whether football should get rid of the forward pass! It makes it far to easy to gain yardage by throwing the football...Lets go back to running the ball every down! That would be exciting lol

 

[hang-the-9]

There is no group in games or sports more close minded to change then pool players lol Hell gloves have been around for more then 20 years and even though it makes complete sense when you use one and have the same stroke every time players still make fun of it. Golfers have different clubs depending on the situation why shouldn't we.

Jumping adds another element to the game. It doesn't have to be either/or. You have to decide is this a jumping situation or is it better that I kick at it? It's just another acquired skill.

How about next we have an argument whether football should get rid of the forward pass! It makes it far to easy to gain yardage by throwing the football...Lets go back to running the ball every down! That would be exciting lol

For some reason people confuse two things, Jumping and Jump Cues. I don't know anyone that is against Jumping. But many are against Jump Cues.

I don't like gloves not because they look odd or anything, I just don't like how they feel.

I was thinking about the golf anology also for different cues, but it does not quite line up the same way, you can have way too many sports or situations to list to say why something should be different. For example, you don't play safe in golf on the other guy, so why have it in pool at all? If you have a hard shot in the rough, you don't just send it somewhere harder and have the other guy hit the ball. In basketball you can be trying to shoot and the other guy can block it and steal the ball from you, why not in pool have the other guy try to knock the cuball away with his stick? Some things are just different in different sports.

 

[hang-the-9]

There's not much strategy in the present rules, basically you do one of two things - try to run our or play safe (then the opponent has to "kick" at the ball which has a lot of luck involved)... it's almost as boring{strategically}as bowling where you try to make a strike or attempt to make a spare.

Two Shot Push Out brings in hundreds of times more strategy to the game, which some like and some do not. I, personally like to see more strategy where you are testing each other for weaknesses and strengths during the course of the match. You simply can't do this playing one foul rules.

OK, at your skill level, there is probably a much smaller amount of luck in kicking, I'm guessing there is not "a lot" or luck in your kicking game LOL. Or those of other pro players. Even as a B player I know about what speed to hit to try to leave a tougher shot at least, if not hook the guy after a kick, enough so you don't send the cueball and other ball randomly around the table. The trick is to hit the right side of the ball most of the time, with rail differences it can be tough, even on a table you play at often if the weather is different. Several times in league in a room I play in every week, the place got so humid and warm that the rails and cloth were playing like totally different tables.

I've never played by the old rules of pushout mid-game, but I can see where it changes the game a lot. Would take a bit out of the safety play though, but add some more knowledge in setting up shots, more similar to a player knowing one pocket shots and position playing someone that does not.

 

[GeoEnvi]

I wonder how the pros felt back in the day when a guy showed up with chalk. All of the sudden he could make more shots and play position better and do all these wild shots....I wonder if they condemned him for using chalk and said chalk should be banned and anyone with real skill plays without the "magical twisting powder".

The repeated comparison of a Jump Cue to "cubes of chalk on the table" is a straw man argument.

Obviously, we wouldn't deny that chalk is standard equipment. Most places even leave it on the rail for you to use as you wish. Same thing goes with the mechanical bridge. Almost every bar or room with a table has one, even if it has one of those cue-ruining pot-metal heads.

Still.. I never saw a jump cue laying around for everyone to use.

 

[Johnnyt]

Someone write a song "Please don't take my jump cue away". and what music to sing it to. Like "Please don't take my sunshine away". Johnnyt

 

[Mikey Town]

The repeated comparison of a Jump Cue to "cubes of chalk on the table" is a straw man argument.

Obviously, we wouldn't deny that chalk is standard equipment. Most places even leave it on the rail for you to use as you wish. Same thing goes with the mechanical bridge. Almost every bar or room with a table has one, even if it has one of those cue-ruining pot-metal heads.

Still.. I never saw a jump cue laying around for everyone to use.

There aren't any break cues lying around for anyone to use, but nobody has a problem when others use a break cue of their own.

The cubes of chalk thing is not a straw man argument. Currently, chalk is considered standard equipment, but it wasn't always that way. There was a time when people played billiards without chalk... that is what JB was referring to.

When chalk was first introduced (much like jump cues have been recently introduced), was it condemned, because it allowed you to more easily put different types of spin on the cue ball? Chalk took away from one particular skill set, but introduced a completely different skill set with the greater amount of spin that you could produce by using it. That resulted in an evolution of the game. Jump cues do the same thing... they take away from kicking, but add jumping as a completely different skill set.

The game is evolving (as all games do)... there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[CreeDo]

I guess if you feel that having only say what 500-1000 viewers to a 10 ball match is a good thing, than it is not broken. 10 ball would never be a game for ESPN or the like cable network. If it were, it would be so chopped up you would see the first game and instantly be taken to the last 3 to fit it in their time slots. I love watching pool, and find even myself bored by it after say an hour.

What's ESPN got to do with whether a game is skilled or fun?

Don't base rule decisions on whether a new rule will entertain or bore a crowd.
That's fine if you're the NFL but pool will never be the NFL in the same way I'll never be Rihanna.
Players will tell you some games actually get ruined by changing the rules to make them more
entertaining for the crowd... see CJ's comments on 2-foul vs. texas express.

Chess is boring for a lot of people to watch, good luck finding it on ESPN.
But it's been around over a thousand years. They must be doing something right.
It's a good game regardless of how many people fall asleep watching it.

Besides, you're crazy if you think banning jump cues will ever make the game
more entertaining for ESPN. Casual viewers love that jumping shit

 

[hang-the-9]

- snip -
Besides, you're crazy if you think banning jump cues will ever make the game
more entertaining for ESPN. Casual viewers love that jumping shit

You're right there, most people probably won't even say you know how to play unless you bank 4 balls in a game and have to jump 2 others. Actually playing good position so you have easy shots is not "good" playing Just look at the pool movies, all the "cool" shots are jumps, banks or combos.

 

[Spider1]

There aren't any break cues lying around for anyone to use, but nobody has a problem when others use a break cue of their own.

Uh....there's not? Every pool hall I have ever been in has racks of house cues.



Jump cues should be banned. What's next, a spring loaded cue for breaking?

 

[Mikey Town]

Uh....there's not? Every pool hall I have ever been in has racks of house cues.

Jump cues should be banned. What's next, a spring loaded cue for breaking?

Yes, but those house cues are not made specific for the break shot, like true break cues are. Just because you use a cue to break doesn't make it a "break cue."

Do the house cues you speak of have phenolic ferrules, and rock hard tips? No. But nobody minds if I pull out my Dymondwood break cue, with a G10 ferrule and Samsara tip just so I can use it for the first shot of the game.

My point was that a Break Cue is not "common equipment" in the same way that a Jump cue is not "common equipment." However, nobody seems to mind when break cues are used. Jump cues... different story.

If anyone really wants to fight the use of jump cues, do it by improving your safety game. If the cue ball is locked up, then a jump isn't possible. If your opponent can jump a blocking ball, and make the shot, then the safety wasn't strong enough... period.

I don't see jump cues going anywhere for a while... they just keep increasing in popularity. Either learn the skill, or learn the necessary skills to combat it. Simple, really.

 

[softshot]

the pro's have pretty much evolved beyond the jump shot as it is..at this point if you left a jump shot then you didn't get safe.


I think a more elegant solution would be "One cue per player per match" use whatever you want...

 

[trob]

See that' s open minded...you tried it..it felt odd and it wasn't for you. you in my opinion are not the norm in the pool world

I don't like gloves not because they look odd or anything, I just don't like how they feel.

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