I wanted to give my opinion of both SBE & Diamond tables, since it was my first time there. I feel the SBE should have been held at a different hotel. The hotel was down right disgusting in my opinion. I don't think the bathrooms had been cleaned in years, and they smelled like holy hell. The ceiling on the lower area was dirty(broken and stained tiles ), and the floors weren't cleaned all weekend. The rooms and reservations were horrible (the riviera gives this place the 6 out, and it's considered to be a dive). Why make reservations if they don't reserve what you ask for? As for the tables......... these were quite possibly the worst tables on earth! The tables downstairs had different levels of wear and each table played differently. The tables played so "springy" you had no idea what the q-ball was going to do. Hopefully Diamond can figure out why their tables only play well with fresh cloth and then fix them, because they stink with cloth that is worn out! had to vent! JMO
SBE and DIAMOND TABLES (LONG)
- Thread starter Cheessehead
- Start date
Earl says it's "boingy".
I can't argue. I love diamond tables but if you could figure out where the hell the que ball was going after it hit a rail god bless you because I couldn't. They coupled with the 860 simonis was just to damn fast. For what ever reason I always seem to play better up stairs.
And yes the hotel sucks. In case you didn't know you can't reserve for next year unless you pay it all up front and if you cancel you don't get your money back. Oh and they uped the price to 160 a night for sbe. ****em ...I'll stay some place else. In fact were thinking of going to the derby next year instead.
And yes the hotel sucks. In case you didn't know you can't reserve for next year unless you pay it all up front and if you cancel you don't get your money back. Oh and they uped the price to 160 a night for sbe. ****em ...I'll stay some place else. In fact were thinking of going to the derby next year instead.
I have always preferred the rubber that came new on my Diamond delivered in Jan '97. I was shocked at the "boinginess" a few years back at the BCAPL nationals. It just doesn't seem natural to me at all growing up on old Brunswicks & Gold Crowns & Valleys.
I feel most players can & will adjust over time (decades?) but I for one would still like to see the Diamond bar box rails "boinginess" taken down a notch or two.
The last time I visited SBE I stayed at the Motel 6 for $72 and it's only a few minutes by car.
I feel most players can & will adjust over time (decades?) but I for one would still like to see the Diamond bar box rails "boinginess" taken down a notch or two.
The last time I visited SBE I stayed at the Motel 6 for $72 and it's only a few minutes by car.
Cheesehead,
The Diamond's at SBE were slow compaired to the ones we play on at the Las Vegas Cue Club. I found the difference in cloth wear interesting. At most, it took me one to two racks to figure out rail and cloth speed. Perhaps you might prefer Valley's with grass for cloth? The biggest difference for me was the lighting. In-ceiling downstairs and standard Diamond hanging lights upstairs. More noticeable now that I've past 65. My guess is, in six matches, I missed maybe five or six balls. I got beat by opponents playing even better than me, not the tables. The tables were great by any standard. Can't wait to get to Vegas in May to play on them again! JMHO.
Lyn
The Diamond's at SBE were slow compaired to the ones we play on at the Las Vegas Cue Club. I found the difference in cloth wear interesting. At most, it took me one to two racks to figure out rail and cloth speed. Perhaps you might prefer Valley's with grass for cloth? The biggest difference for me was the lighting. In-ceiling downstairs and standard Diamond hanging lights upstairs. More noticeable now that I've past 65. My guess is, in six matches, I missed maybe five or six balls. I got beat by opponents playing even better than me, not the tables. The tables were great by any standard. Can't wait to get to Vegas in May to play on them again! JMHO.
Lyn
I thought the tables were awesome considering the amount of play that they got over the weekend. As far as the hotel goes, ya it was dirty in certain areas but I was unconcerned with the conditions of the bathrooms. There was so much going on there that the last thing on my mind was the sh$@%y bathrooms, ,no pun intended. I was there to play pool, meet pros and AZer's and that's it.
i vote thumbs up...
to me the diamonds at sbe played great. yes, the cloth was fast and that's magnified on a bar box for those of us used to 9 footers. The op mentioned about worn cloth and i believe all of the tables at sbe were newly clothed for this event. am i wrong?
as always with new cloth you are going to have to adjust for the slippery/slidey action off of the cushions. Usually a rack or two of practice prior to a match will let you get dialed in. i do agree, however, that the cushions were a bit "boingy".
Brian (KC)
to me the diamonds at sbe played great. yes, the cloth was fast and that's magnified on a bar box for those of us used to 9 footers. The op mentioned about worn cloth and i believe all of the tables at sbe were newly clothed for this event. am i wrong?
as always with new cloth you are going to have to adjust for the slippery/slidey action off of the cushions. Usually a rack or two of practice prior to a match will let you get dialed in. i do agree, however, that the cushions were a bit "boingy".
Brian (KC)
Brian,
Most of the tables had "worn" cloth on them. It ranged from barely used to just plain worn out. There were lots of tables with new cloth as well. As hard as I try, I just can't remember "boingy" rails. They played just like all the other Diamonds I play on.
Perhaps I just like Artimus Rail Rubbers. I hear from detractors all the time. Some times from very highly respected professional players about the rail rubbers. The greatest percentage of them grew up on Brunswick tables. Unforunately, I hear an overwhelmingly positive number of comments from other, younger "Pros". Who is right?
Lyn
You can not defend how the diamonds played downstairs on the coin op tables. They were horrible. Everybody knew it and we just played but that doesn't mean they played good. There is simply no reason for a CB to react like that off a rail. Bongy - Bongy -BongyBongy - Bongy.
I don't think the tables could have played any better. Most played consistantly the same even the ones in the pit that received more use. Cloth was fast, rails were lively and accurate, pockets were tight.
tables
I have no problem with "responsive" rails. What I have trouble with is when the cue ball comes off the rails faster than the speed it came in with. the tables upstairs played decent and a few of the tables downstairs played ok, but the majority of the tables played "boingy". I like diamonds, I didn't think they played tough at all ( besides not knowing what speed the q-ball would come off the rails). They (diamond) need to fix the "boingy" rails, and I believe they know how, they just haven't done it yet.
I have no problem with "responsive" rails. What I have trouble with is when the cue ball comes off the rails faster than the speed it came in with. the tables upstairs played decent and a few of the tables downstairs played ok, but the majority of the tables played "boingy". I like diamonds, I didn't think they played tough at all ( besides not knowing what speed the q-ball would come off the rails). They (diamond) need to fix the "boingy" rails, and I believe they know how, they just haven't done it yet.
It's a common fact that this is supposed to happen on all pool tables. The cue ball always gains speed off a normal rail.
I don't think that's possible. A CB always loses speed. Otherwise, it'd never stop if you hit it hard enough.
Why have I always heard that? It may be miniscul but the ball always leave the rail faster then when it contacted it. Not enough for that gain in speed to carry across the cloth to the next rail... friction of the ball and cloth and skid after contacting the rail will slow it back down hence the ball stopping eventually.
I think people perceive an increase if there's a more efficient transfer in energy (compared to rails that are traditionally more dead); however, the rubber absorbs a % of the energy of the CB. It's impossible to get 100% energy transfer (which would result in speed in=speed out, with no increase in speed).
Why do you have to go getting all smart on me
Well I guess it's like you said, perception. I mean if you hit a ball about medium speed from the foot rail to the head rail, the ball will naturally slow down on the way up table, then when it comes off that other rail it definately looks like the ball is going faster then it did right before contact.
Try it and let me know if it at least looks the same to you. Like you said it may look like that, but not actually be happening.
Can we at least agree that Super Speed and Artimus rail rubbers respond differently? The older you are, the more you remember the way it was. I think it is why Diamond has had such a great impact on our game. They really do play different from older Brunswick's etc.
Lyn
Lyn