Scheduling conflict- Matchroom Hanoi Open and Reyes Cup clash with Predator World 8-Ball Championship

BasementDweller said:
Predator has one move left:

Switch their game of choice to 9 Ball.

Go with hat in hand to Matchroom.

Request a partnership where they takeover most of the North American tour. This would help Matchroom as it would help revitalize the US Pool scene.

Could become the WNT tour brought to by Predator.

Matchroom could still do their US Open and Predator could begin a long and fruitful partnership with Matchroom.

...or they just stick with the WPA and bow out completely in another year or two.
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Predator has many options. Switch to 9-ball with MR is unlikely. They can stay with WPA and continue supporting teams, women, juniors, 10-ball and 8-ball and lose the top players to bans. They can pressure WPA and its federations to end their required sanctioning and/or ban policies. They can drop the WPA and continue to run teams, women, 10-ball, and 8-ball without WPA sanctioning. They could just focus on the women and juniors. They could decide to step back from producing events.
 
BasementDweller said:
Predator has one move left:

Switch their game of choice to 9 Ball.

Go with hat in hand to Matchroom.

Request a partnership where they takeover most of the North American tour. This would help Matchroom as it would help revitalize the US Pool scene.

Could become the WNT tour brought to by Predator.

Matchroom could still do their US Open and Predator could begin a long and fruitful partnership with Matchroom.

...or they just stick with the WPA and bow out completely in another year or two.
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I think Cuetec might have an opinion on that since they're now a WNT sponsor.
 
BasementDweller said:
Predator has one move left:

Switch their game of choice to 9 Ball.

Go with hat in hand to Matchroom.

Request a partnership where they takeover most of the North American tour. This would help Matchroom as it would help revitalize the US Pool scene.

Could become the WNT tour brought to by Predator.

Matchroom could still do their US Open and Predator could begin a long and fruitful partnership with Matchroom.

...or they just stick with the WPA and bow out completely in another year or two.
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I emailed Predator basically the same thing several months back. Switch to 9 ball and partner with Matchroom. I didn't get a reply. I'm not sure it went to the correct people.
 
FranCrimi said:
With all due respect, Stu, you seem to keep jumping the gun and assuming the WPA is at fault before learning all of the facts. Your posts about them influence other people into hating the WPA for the wrong reasons.

Remember: The WPA isn't just a handful of people acting high and mighty, sitting around a conference table. It consists of the continental federations of all of the continents (except Antartica, of course). The issues are taken back to the federations and discussed with them.

Wouldn't it be better to just get all the facts first before issuing an opinion?
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Fran, I have always had the highest possible respect for you and appreciate the role you have played in the furtherance of our sport, but with due respect, I know the facts.

As Shane Tyree confirmed to me when I saw him at the 2023 BCA Hall of Fame dinner in November, the BCA voted against the ban-related actions voted upon in Qatar, so I know that America does not approve of the direction that was pursued by WPA at the time.

As a regular on the tournament trail, including some events in Europe, I know more members of WPA than you might realize. I also regularly have the ear of both tournament producers and pro players and know how they feel about what happened. I also met and had a chat with a few of the Federation Presidents during the 2022 World Games.

I have seen up close and personal the ill-will that the WPA actions in Qatar created in our sport, so I'm not speculating. I think a full reconciliation between the WPA and those it attempted to bully is likely, but WPA will need to drop the rhetoric that suggests others stand in the way of pool's march forward for the path to be smoothed over. The illogic that brought both the "ban on the basis of nationality" in 2022 and the "ban of those playing in non-WPA-sanctioned events" of 2023 might seem defensible to you, but I'll always view them as stains on the WPA's track record in overseeing our sport.

Yes, I'm 100% certain that you know things that I don't know, but in big picture terms, I know what has transpired in our sport of late and have every qualification to interpret and comment upon it as I see fit.
 
Well PRA was incorporated in Dec 2023.
According to their website (which was setup in Feb2024)

About | The Pool Regulation

www.poolregulation.com www.poolregulation.com

activities.PNG


Directors include Chris Hornsby , Nigel Mawer who are officials are WPBSA which owns shares in WST (majority owned by Matchroom) that runs professional snooker. Maybe this model works for snooker cos the governing body WPBSA has a stake in WST
:LOL:
 
MattPoland said:
Predator has many options. Switch to 9-ball with MR is unlikely. They can stay with WPA and continue supporting teams, women, juniors, 10-ball and 8-ball and lose the top players to bans. They can pressure WPA and its federations to end their required sanctioning and/or ban policies. They can drop the WPA and continue to run teams, women, 10-ball, and 8-ball without WPA sanctioning. They could just focus on the women and juniors. They could decide to step back from producing events.
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a Couple of thoughts:

Right now, MR does not seem to be pulling in too many "new" or "casual" fans from the US. Nothing scientific, just my own observations from the bars, pool room, etc. My personal opinion is that it is the PPV model, Dazn, and having all the Euro and Asian tourneys that are usually done by early afternoon our time...i.e. (no prime time).

I would venture to guess that more casual fans in the US will recognize Predator right now than MR or WNT. Again just a hunch. But if the predator branded tables start showing up in more pool rooms, it could solidify that opinion.

If predator wanted to venture into some kind of competitive relationship with MR, now would be the time vs. waiting another year or two. Whether it be attempting a more organized North American tour with their free streaming model or something else.

Either way, IMO the first promotion that gets a cable deal, wins the US, whether it be espn, foxsports, TNT, whatever.

Note: None of this applies to MR outside of the US. They seem to be killing it with the Asian market.
 
MattPoland said:
Predator has many options. Switch to 9-ball with MR is unlikely. They can stay with WPA and continue supporting teams, women, juniors, 10-ball and 8-ball and lose the top players to bans. They can pressure WPA and its federations to end their required sanctioning and/or ban policies. They can drop the WPA and continue to run teams, women, 10-ball, and 8-ball without WPA sanctioning. They could just focus on the women and juniors. They could decide to step back from producing events.
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"Supporting" teams, women, and juniors is exactly that. Sadly, I just don't see any profit in that down the road. 8 Ball and 10 Ball without the top players, effectively becomes an amateur tour. I don't see a path to success in that either.
 
jay helfert said:
Due to being on opposite sides of the International Dateline, October 13th In Hanoi is actually October 12th in Venezuela. It's conceivable a player could play in Hanoi and travel on Oct. 14th (Oct. 13th in Venezuela), arriving there on Oct. 14th! Yes, it could be done.
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So you're talking time travel! Cool!
 
BasementDweller said:
"Supporting" teams, women, and juniors is exactly that. Sadly, I just don't see any profit in that down the road. 8 Ball and 10 Ball without the top players, effectively becomes an amateur tour. I don't see a path to success in that either.
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My concern is that some of our best players not named SVB (Skylar, Oscar, Billy, Hennessee, Jeremy Sossei, etc.) aren't going to globe trot around Europe and Asia, spending time away from friends and family, with not a very high chance to make significant money in the Big tourneys.

I could be wrong, we're just having a discussion here, but if I put myself in their place, If there were viable options at home with a chance to make similar payouts, it would be a no brainer.

One thing I believe, there will always be opportunities to make money in pool in the US. I mean, how much money have folks like Earthquake, Matlock, even Hennessee made by primarily playing stateside?
 
jokrswylde said:
My concern is that some of our best players not named SVB (Skylar, Oscar, Billy, Hennessee, Jeremy Sossei, etc.) aren't going to globe trot around Europe and Asia, spending time away from friends and family, with not a very high chance to make significant money in the Big tourneys.

I could be wrong, we're just having a discussion here, but if I put myself in their place, If there were viable options at home with a chance to make similar payouts, it would be a no brainer.

One thing I believe, there will always be opportunities to make money in pool in the US. I mean, how much money have folks like Earthquake, Matlock, even Hennessee made by primarily playing stateside?
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oscar just finished 2nd in scotland and is playing the UK open now.. he runs a business but i think he will be playing many MR events. here are the other americans in the ongoing UK open:

Lukas Fracasso-Verner UNITED STATES
Fedor Gorst UNITED STATES
Sam Henderson UNITED STATES
Hunter Lombardo UNITED STATES
Danny Olson UNITED STATES
Jeremy Sossei UNITED STATES
Tyler Styer UNITED STATES
Billy Thorpe UNITED STATES
BJ Ussery UNITED STATES
Shane Van Boening UNITED STATES
Shane Wolford UNITED STATES
Skyler Woodward UNITED STATES
Jeremy Jones UNITED STATES
Mike Delawder UNITED STATES
Robert Hart UNITED STATES
Paul Song UNITED STATES
 
spartan said:
Well PRA was incorporated in Dec 2023.
According to their website (which was setup in Feb2024)

About | The Pool Regulation

www.poolregulation.com www.poolregulation.com

View attachment 757206

Directors include Chris Hornsby , Nigel Mawer who are officials are WPBSA which owns shares in WST (majority owned by Matchroom) that runs professional snooker. Maybe this model works for snooker cos the governing body WPBSA has a stake in WST
:LOL:
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It looks like I owe a dozen dollars. Although maybe a doughnuts are worth more today!
 
skogstokig said:
oscar just finished 2nd in scotland and is playing the UK open now.. he runs a business but i think he will be playing many MR events. here are the other americans in the ongoing UK open:

Lukas Fracasso-Verner UNITED STATES
Fedor Gorst UNITED STATES
Sam Henderson UNITED STATES
Hunter Lombardo UNITED STATES
Danny Olson UNITED STATES
Jeremy Sossei UNITED STATES
Tyler Styer UNITED STATES
Billy Thorpe UNITED STATES
BJ Ussery UNITED STATES
Shane Van Boening UNITED STATES
Shane Wolford UNITED STATES
Skyler Woodward UNITED STATES
Jeremy Jones UNITED STATES
Mike Delawder UNITED STATES
Robert Hart UNITED STATES
Paul Song UNITED STATES
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Great representation, no doubt.

I wonder how many on that list will play scottish, uk, WPC, Dubai open, Lushan Open, China Open, Helsinki Open, Euro open, etc.

I am not trying to factor in sponsorships, because I have no idea, but how much would Danny Olson have to make each tourney to at least break even. Against loaded fields full of killers?

My point is limited tourneys in the States ain't gonna likely bother SVB, but Robert Hart, Paul Song?
 
jokrswylde said:
Either way, IMO the first promotion that gets a cable deal, wins the US, whether it be espn, foxsports, TNT, whatever.

Note: None of this applies to MR outside of the US. They seem to be killing it with the Asian market.
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That is just not going to happen. US Cable TV stations aren't going to invest in covering a pool tour. If by some crazy chance Fox Sports 2 or some lower tier cable network takes a chance on it, it will air over night or some such.

But maybe, just maybe, a streaming service that is friendlier than DAZN for the US market might happen. And that would certainly help whichever tour lands such a deal, immensely.
 
It’s fun looking at the history. I welcome corrections.

It’s also important to highlight the relationship between WPBSA and Matchroom. Matchroom owns 51% of World Snooker Tour and WPBSA owns 26%. Barry Hearn was once briefly the chairman of the WPBSA. After him Jason Ferguson, a close collaborator with Hearn, has since been the chairman. So they established a completely intertwined relationship where both entities are quite unified and most importantly separate from the IBSF / WCBS / IOC. The WPBSA vice chairman is Nigel Mawer.

Now imagine you’re Matchroom and you want to recreate that outcome with darts. You get to start green field. You create the Darts Regulation Authority with Nigel Mawer as the chairperson. Life is pretty easy there because there is not a IOC recognized body for Darts to contend with.

Now imagine you’re Matchroom and you want to recreate that outcome with pool. You’re ready to abandon the WPA / WCBS / IOC. You know you can start green field again because you’ve done it before. You create the Pool Regulation Authority with (you guessed it) Nigel Mawer as the chairperson.
 
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MattPoland said:
Keep in mind this is no longer about who announced which date first. Like iusedtoberich just said, Matchroom dates require complex arrangements with broadcasters, venues and other partners.
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That is complete BS. You got to take a breath and get off those Matchroom nuts.
 
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