school me on chalk...

The Renfro said:
OK it's late so I'll be short since I actually have to prep a client for year end tomorrow... At least I get to help spend some money even if it's not mine =)

Basically chalk is made up of 3 parts... Binder, Fillers and Abrasives.....

Binders have one purpose... Hold the friggin chalk together... Clay has been used for years and will continue to be...

Fillers... For years fillers were just to make up volume but recently they have found out that using certain fillers will make the chalk go on smoother...
No offense intended but this is not a recent discovery.

ie Kamui... Some fillers can also help bind the chalk when it's pressed... Fillers have a lot to do with the chalks feel but not with how it works....



Abrasives... This is where the rubber hits the road... This is also where the premium chalk can excel if their QC is right... With a cube of masters there is no real standardized abrasive size..

Not true. The abrasives are selected specifically by size, shape and hardness. Microscopes have been around for quite a while.

Abrasives are measured in microns.. Too small they don't bite and too large your chalk feels gritty...

If you look at the surface of masters magnified you can see that there is not a consistency to the abrasives across the surface...
Perhaps what you mean is, there are multiple sized particles. This is true, by design, not negligence.

Different micron sizes and some ares that are nothing but filler...

Thats an awefully big claim without any actual proof. Could you provide pictures please?

If you put only filler on your tip you will be very surpised when you misscue after chalking... And if you say it's never happened I'd have to call BS...

On a premium chalk like Blue Diamond you will see a better distribution of abrasives there will be no filler only areas but some areas will be weak because the micron sizes vary... Small micron sizes don't do much more than filler so if you hit a patch of that stuff you might get a sliding feeling from your tip instead of a full misscue....

Kamui is 30 bucks because of the purity and consistency of the minerals they use... And because of the QC they put into making the chalk... Kamui under magnification is consistent in distribution and micron size.. If you misscue with Kamui it's ALL on your stroke.. It's not because you didn't get what you thought you paid for....

Now with that said as long as your tip is porous and doesn't glaze over for the most part the leather lets the abrasives set into the face of the tip... Most of the abrasives used are ruptile...

I wouldnt say "most".
Some of the most used and most popular silicates are nearly as hard as diamonds and do not break down.

which means that they fracture ad create new biting surfaces under pressure.. This means that you can likely shoot several shots before you run out of chalk.. Or what it really means is that you can rupture the abrasives several times before they are too small to create a bite... That's why Kamui can last a game or longer... You start with large micron sizes so as you break it down it keeps on biting....

If what you are claiming is factual, it means that the performance of the chalk would change the longer it has been on your tip.

OK that's longer than I intended but I'm a pool nerd and Outsville is working on chalk hopefully by Tunica... It's not gonna be $30 a cube but it's not going to be $2 bucks a cube either... Man I have toooooo many projects.. Tips and a COR tester will be out around Derby and I hope to enlist AZ's help on evaluations....

Chris Renfro
Click to expand...


I've mentioned this before - I think some of you should just perform your own "grit" tests at home, or else you'll never be satisfied.
(as far as old formulas working better than new. and this chalk is grittier than that one etc.)

Create an inclined plane. (a piece of wood or metal set up like a ramp)
Create a sled. (a piece of wood or metal to slide down the ramp)
Apply various chalks to the ramp or to the sled and measure the differences in their sliding charactersistics.

Sounds cheesy but they do it just like that in the lab.

According to Mr. Renfro, you might want to beat the chalk up a little bit too. (to break down the particles)
 
"congenial guesswork"

I wasn't trying to sound "intelligent"...I was trying to be reasonably kind with your "friendly guesswork"...(trying not to become too combative on a public forum) lets call it trying to be respectful of your thoughts...

Yes, I've read most every post about the masters chalk, for the past 3 years...
...and as someone else has posted, the green chalk had an extremely high volume of lead...which would now support a change in the formula of the green.

I do apologize that, I was not specific to my thoughts being pointed towards the green chalk in most all of my posts...but I am, in particular speaking about the green chalk...


Sorry if I was not completely specific on the difference of my preference of green chalk...as compared to the blue...OHHH...please note in my very first post, that I stated that I felt that the green was better than the blue...
 
Last edited:
Oh, and "evolutionary timing"...

obviously now, you agree that there were formula changes...

and again, I'm speaking directly of the green chalk...rather than the blue, so, again, sorry for my not being specific to my preference of and primary topic of the Green chalk.
 
In the past year, I've used Master, Blue Diamond, Predator and Kamui. I don't think using any of these four will make a SIGNIFICANT difference in one's game (with the possible exception of someone who forgets to chalk often, then Kamui could have a significant difference). My preference/rating is in descending order, Master last, Kamui first.

Given the cost per year for any of those chalks and given the comparative cost to other aspects of pool (cue, table time, travel cost to play, etc.) I cannot understand any argument for or against any of these chalks based upon cost. Assuming you don't lose the chalk, it seems like the maximum difference you would spend on Kamui per year is around $55.

I really don't know if Kamui provides more friction or more consistent friction. What someone posted about a more consistent grit size makes a lot of sense. I like Kamui because it goes onto the tip easiest, smoothest and most uniform. This really shows up if you're using it on a phenolic break tip. My lone dislike with Kamui is that it clearly marks up the CB far more than other chalk.

Seems to me this is really a meaningless debate as there clearly is no significant gain by using Kamui over Master. I seriously doubt a Professional Player using Master now would suddenly win more championships by switching to Kamui. It is more a matter of personal preference. If someone can't afford $27 to $55 per year on chalk, I'm wondering how they afford to play period, so I don't see cost as being a factor either.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Here are tables of lead content in pool cue chalk from testing done by the Department of Medical Toxicology, Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center, Phoenix, AZ and the Mecklenburg County, NC Health Department (from the late 90s, I think). It says that only green chalks (including Masters) had dangerously high levels of lead (over 7,000 parts per million - the US regulatory limit for childrens' products was recently lowered to 100 PPM).

Masters blue (and all non-green chalk except Pioneer tangerine, apparently) had only trace amounts of lead, so that probably wasn't the reason for any formula change, if there was one.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

For the record, the values given in the reports are expressed as mg/kg, which is not the same as ppm. (regardless, the ppm is still going to be high)

One of you scientific types could probably calculate the conversion based on the density etc.

P.S. To put the mg/kg value in perspective, Cali just adopted a law stating that a tract of land cannot be used for residential purposes if it contains more than 80 mg/kg of lead. (320 mg/kg for industrial land)
 
Mr. Bond said:
For the record, the values given in the reports are expressed as mg/kg, which is not the same as ppm.
Click to expand...
Actually, they are the same. There are a million milligrams in a kilogram, so mg/kg (milligrams per kilogram) = ppm (parts per million).

pj
chgo
 
Now here's a twist. I went and shot some pool last night and witnessed a man perforating his tip with a cuetec multi tool. Not your average few pokes, but like ground beef with a cleaver until his tip finally stopped crying. Then he pulled out a plastic bag with bluish powder in it. He jammed the tip in and ground it in repeatedly then placed the shaft on his butt. I watched him play and he repeated his routine between racks. I for one can't see how he had a tip still and why his shaft wasn't plastered blue.

I guess I can say now, I've seen stranger uses of chalk. I just wonder what brand it was lol
 
I don't understand why this is always bantered about. Its really as simple as different people like different things. There will always be different types of chalk becuase they all sell. If they didn't sell, they would stop producing it.

I have personally tried and experimented with about 20+ different types of chalk. I still do to this day, just on a smaller scale.

To boil down my personal experience to the chalks I like and will use:

1. Blue Diamond
2. Magic
3. No Flag Masters (old stuff only)
4. Cosmo
5. Balabushka
6. Predator
7. Flagged Masters
8. Old Nat'l Tournament

How do guys rank the chalk you have tested and used ??????????
 
I like Blue Diamond more than Kamui, which I like more than Masters... but this is only because I prefer my chalk in alphabetical order.
 
s5gEp.jpg


Anyone hear about/try this chalk out yet?
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Actually, they are the same. There are a million milligrams in a kilogram, so mg/kg (milligrams per kilogram) = ppm (parts per million).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

In theory, yes.
But unless one knows the density of the particles, (or their volume) then one is truly missing part of the whole picture.

One ant in a herd of elephants vs. one elephant in a herd of ants.
 
Mr. Bond said:
In theory, yes.
But unless one knows the density of the particles, (or their volume) then one is truly missing part of the whole picture.

One ant in a herd of elephants vs. one elephant in a herd of ants.
Click to expand...

Actually PPM can be by weight or volume... Lead hazard is very often listed in PPM by weight... And I found the study from 1996... The PPM was by weight.... Recently lead BY weight is down to acceptable at 100PPM so some chalks were 70 times what is considered healthy... Thanks PJ... That actually hurt less to say than I thought =)
 
Last edited:
Actually, they are the same. There are a million milligrams in a kilogram, so mg/kg (milligrams per kilogram) = ppm (parts per million).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Mr. Bond:
In theory, yes.
But unless one knows the density of the particles, (or their volume) then one is truly missing part of the whole picture.

One ant in a herd of elephants vs. one elephant in a herd of ants.
Click to expand...
Yes, I guess official lead limits could be in parts-per-million of chemical amount instead of parts-per-million of weight (I don't think volume works) - do you know which? As you say, either way it's easy to tell which chalk might be dangerous.

pj
chgo

[EDIT: LOL, Renfro - I was typing this while you were posting the answer above. Thanks for finding out. Mr. Bond is right in principle.]
 
Last edited:
poolhustler said:
I don't understand why this is always bantered about. Its really as simple as different people like different things. There will always be different types of chalk becuase they all sell. If they didn't sell, they would stop producing it.

I have personally tried and experimented with about 20+ different types of chalk. I still do to this day, just on a smaller scale.

To boil down my personal experience to the chalks I like and will use:

1. Blue Diamond
2. Magic
3. No Flag Masters (old stuff only)
4. Cosmo
5. Balabushka
6. Predator
7. Flagged Masters
8. Old Nat'l Tournament

How do guys rank the chalk you have tested and used ??????????
Click to expand...



Magic
BD
Predator
Masters(either flag status)



Anybody have an opinion on Sang Lee chalk?
 
wontonny said:
Anyone hear about/try this chalk out yet?
Click to expand...
Being a Chicagoan, I like that poster, so I stole a copy from you. Let me know if you'd like a trimmed and brightened copy.

In return, here's a pic of Tweeten's Worldwide Headquarters on Chicago's near west side:

Tweeten Fibre Co.jpg

pj
chgo
 
Last edited:
I have not read all of the thread, but my cube of Kamui chalk is more than 2 years old now and am now down to the 2nd half of the cube.At 24 cents per week and getting cheaper, I am more than happy with the price per performance of the product.
Untill someone else makes a better performing product, I am sticking with what I have.
It may be another year before I need to open the second packet of chalk.
neil
 
Do you guys seriously believe you miscue less with a different chalk?


I mean come on.... Get your body in a good/solid position, Keep your head down, Follow through smoothly, and listen for the ball to drop. You won't miscue, I promise!

I have gone 2 or 3 games at a time without chalking but once and no miscuing. No, I am not a center ball player either. I use regular old master chalk. There is nothing ANYONE could tell me that would make me spend $30 on a piece of chalk. GET REAL!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top