Scratch While Attempting To Pocket Eight (but not making the 8)

Redneck Jim

Redneck Jim

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I started playing pool in the late 1950's. I played mostly in bars, & only played a few times in a real pool hall.

Everyone seemed to play that you lost if you scratched on the 8.
They also went by the rule that if you missed making the 8, but scratched, it was a loss of game.
The only time I played you didn't lose if you scratched and the 8 didn't fall, was playing last pocket, or bank the 8.

I read the BCA - WPA rules, and it states that:
2-9 Shooting the 8-Ball
1. The 8-ball becomes your legal object ball on your first shot after there are no balls of
your group on the table. The player who legally pockets the 8-ball wins the game. (AR p. 97)

2. With the exception of the provisions of Rule 2.10, it is not loss of game if you foul
when shooting the 8-ball but do not pocket the 8-ball. Your opponent receives ball in
hand.

2-10 Loss of Game
You lose the game if:
a. you illegally pocket the 8-ball; (AR p. 97)
b. you jump the 8-ball off the table on any shot other than the break;
c. you pocket the 8-ball on the same shot as the last ball of your group;
d. you violate any General Rule that requires loss of game as a penalty;
e. you pocket the 8-ball on a shot defined as not obvious that you do not call
(Rule 1-16-6 does not apply to 8-Ball);
f. you commit a foul under Rule 1-33-4 or 1-33-7 and the 8-ball falls into a
pocket.

Are there any other official rules that say that scratching while attempting to, but not pocketing the 8 results in a loss of game?

Or is this just a bar rule that became commonly accepted ?

What other governing body rules besides BCA or WPA are commonly used that I could check?
 
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Redneck Jim said:
I started playing pool in the late 1950's. I played mostly in bars, & only played a few times in a real pool hall.

Everyone seemed to play that you lost if you scratched on the 8.
They also went by the rule that if you missed making the 8, but scratched, it was a loss of game.
The only time I played you didn't lose if you scratched and the 8 didn't fall, was playing last pocket, or bank the 8.

I read the BCA - WPA rules, and it states that:
2-9 Shooting the 8-Ball
1. The 8-ball becomes your legal object ball on your first shot after there are no balls of
your group on the table. The player who legally pockets the 8-ball wins the game. (AR p. 97)

2. With the exception of the provisions of Rule 2.10, it is not loss of game if you foul
when shooting the 8-ball but do not pocket the 8-ball. Your opponent receives ball in
hand.

2-10 Loss of Game
You lose the game if:
a. you illegally pocket the 8-ball; (AR p. 97)
b. you jump the 8-ball off the table on any shot other than the break;
c. you pocket the 8-ball on the same shot as the last ball of your group;
d. you violate any General Rule that requires loss of game as a penalty;
e. you pocket the 8-ball on a shot defined as not obvious that you do not call
(Rule 1-16-6 does not apply to 8-Ball);
f. you commit a foul under Rule 1-33-4 or 1-33-7 and the 8-ball falls into a
pocket.

Are there any other official rules that say that scratching while attempting to, but not pocketing the 8 results in a loss of game?

Or is this just a bar rule that became commonly accepted ?

What other governing body rules besides BCA or WPA are commonly used that I could check?
Click to expand...

If by "other official rules" you mean league rules, then probably yea. But it's not an official rule that you'd see at say a pro tournament. I think the only time anyone would play by league or just random bar rules is if you come up against a player that just does not know any better.
 
my guess is you are right about it becoming an official rule of bar table players. many of these bar table players often do not play at a high level and i believe it gave these players a perceived advantage to hang around and sometimes one could win on the shooters mistakes.

in the pool world one must be adaptable to all different types of situations and hence different rules. so instead of researching "the correct rules" and instead play by "the local rules" if you are the visitor and if it's "your House", then by all means play by any rules that you think are correct.

but whatever you decide, make sure each of you know what rules are being utilized. this makes the match more fun and cuts the crazy factor way down. pool should be a fun game
 
When playing in a BCA league if you scratch while shooting the 8 and 8 does not go in it is ball in hand for opponent..You lose if you scratch and pocket 8....
 
b. you jump the 8-ball off the table on any shot other than the break
Click to expand...

Obviously you copied and pasted this from a site. Is this a BCA Rule?

Funny as it may seem, I was just on the phone with our local head ref as I was reading your thread. So, we discussed this quoted rule above.

As far as I know, any time the 8 ball leaves the playing surface of a table, other than being a legal shot when all your balls are down. Loss of game.

Drop one one the floor at any point, even the break.

If I am wrong or this is BCA and not VNEA, then I apologize in advance.

Always can learn a thing or two. At 57, I am still finding out how many ways of skinning a cat there is that I still don't know.

I should change my Sig Line. To Ref is to Suffer. When a person knows every single rule there is, yer FKing Superman in my book.
 
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Redneck Jim said:
I started playing pool in the late 1950's. I played mostly in bars, & only played a few times in a real pool hall.

Everyone seemed to play that you lost if you scratched on the 8.
They also went by the rule that if you missed making the 8, but scratched, it was a loss of game.
Click to expand...

That is ridiculous common bar rule. Probably to speed up the game so more games can be played and more $$ for owner
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
Obviously you copied and pasted this from a site. Is this a BCA Rule?

Funny as it may seem, I was just on the phone with our local head ref as I was reading your thread. So, we discussed this quoted rule above.

As far as I know, any time the 8 ball leaves the playing surface of a table, other than being a legal shot when all your balls are down. Loss of game.

Drop one one the floor at any point, even the break.

If I am wrong or this is BCA and not VNEA, then I apologize in advance.
Click to expand...

Apology not necessary...it's just a matter of which rule set is being quoted.

In CSI/BCAPL/USAPL rules, Rule 2-10-b (quoted in the above post) applies, as well as Rule 2-3-5:

"In all cases on the break, jumped object balls other than the 8-ball are not returned to the table except in the case of a re-rack. If the 8-ball is jumped it is spotted."


Under WSR Rule 3.3(g) applies:

"If any object ball is driven off the table on a break shot, it is a foul; such balls remain out of play (except the eight ball which is re-spotted); and the incoming player has the option of

(1) accepting the table in position, or
(2) taking cue ball in hand behind the head string."

Emphasis added in both quotes.

Buddy
 
Bar rules = different animal, yes?

I can almost say that more fights have been caused over bar tables, rules, alcohol etc, than jealous boyfriends.

I would guess that our 8 on the floor after break is a local league rule.
 
My (bar) "league" plays loss of game for any scratch. I think the rule stems from ball in hand behind the headstring or "the kitchen", because there are situations in which a purposeful scratch would be advantageous. Especially when both players are on the 8 and it's sitting behind the headstring or you can easily push it there and scratch. I've played "bar rules" many times, and it's come up often where my opponent has his remaining ball or two behind the headstring and I've thought about scratching on purpose; it's a talentless, yet effective safety. I just can't get myself to do it.
 
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