Secrets!

T-Blindness

ENGLISH! said:
Robin,

I just read a post last night where someone played badly for 15 years & is now so glad that some instructional info is finally getting him to play better.

I asked him if he had thought that doing the same thing for 15 years was going to yield a different result.

If one's mind is blocked closed with Testosterone or any form of ego then their mind can not take them any further than where they are.

I have played rather well for 46 years but CJ putting his TOI methods out & my being open to at least taking a look at what was the exact opposite of my english spin methods has certainly helped me to improve.

I can never understand why one closes their minds & thinks that they have all of the info & have made the correct decision. They just don't seem to understand that no one earth can contain all of the information that exists.

Like Bruce Lee said, 'Be Like Water My Friend'.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
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Nice Post Rick,
Yes I play pretty good myself and yesterday I actually got to work on my game..just a little for once. I usually end up playing someone and I practiced several things and then I hit onto TOI awhile myself.

It is an interesting concept. I most like it for the additional cue ball roll control. I try to use all English in my game and what doing this does for me to add assurance that Inside is a great answer to many shot solutions. After all angle is everything for position if nothing else. Getting the best solution for the next shot is what its about no matter what the English but I found myself ignoring the Inside at times when I shouldn't have.

I hope soon to share some things I've been working on that have taken up most of my time lately that opened things up for me. Its one thing to know how to do them, but its another to know how to share them.

Like your quote about being like water. You have to be open to finding out that things are much simpler than we tend to make them. Then you are able to see so much more.
 
dr_dave said:
That's why I have quotes around the word "secrets."

I disagree. I have personally met many very good players who didn't know (or intuitively understand) quite a few "gems" on the list.

Okay. How about this: If you already know everything, the only thing you can do to get better is to practice and focus.
But that's no "secret" either, is it?

Regards,
Dave
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Now Dave,

Please do not put words in my mouth like some others do.

I did not say that I know everything. Actually, the only thing that I do 'know' is that I 'know' nothing.

I was not being serious. That is why I 'winked'.

Perhaps you should change the quotation marks to single quotes.

As I have often said I appreciate all of your work & efforts. I think your publications are a treasure trove to anyone trying to learn about the game & how it can be played. And then as you say but those 'secrets' into play over & over & over again.

Best Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
 
336Robin said:
Nice Post Rick,
Yes I play pretty good myself and yesterday I actually got to work on my game..just a little for once. I usually end up playing someone and I practiced several things and then I hit onto TOI awhile myself.

It is an interesting concept. I most like it for the additional cue ball roll control. I try to use all English in my game and what doing this does for me to add assurance that Inside is a great answer to many shot solutions. After all angle is everything for position if nothing else. Getting the best solution for the next shot is what its about no matter what the English but I found myself ignoring the Inside at times when I shouldn't have.

I hope soon to share some things I've been working on that have taken up most of my time lately that opened things up for me. Its one thing to know how to do them, but its another to know how to share them.

Like your quote about being like water. You have to be open to finding out that things are much simpler than we tend to make them. Then you are able to see so much more.
Click to expand...

Robin,

Thanks.

But just to be clear & so no one gets confused, you are aware that CJ's TOI is not the same as simply hitting a shot with inside english, correct?

The tip placement to the inside is for two separate intentions & outcomes & they are dependent on the speed of the shot relative to the distance between the balls.

TOI is utilizing the squirt factor to add cut to the shot & inside english is used to either throw the OB or change the angle coming off a rail or both.

I've just seen too many that have not understood the difference & just think that TOI is inside english.

I would not want your post to add to the confusion.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
 
Jal said:
Maybe. :)

I mean I'm not sure whether by "sidespin" you're referring to the throw component of velocity added to the OB by the sidepin on the CB, or the induced spin on the OB itself. What I meant was, if Vn is the OB's speed in the forward direction (line of centers direction), and Vt is the throw component in the perpendicular direction (tangent line direction), per your earlier diagram, then its total speed is the square root of the sum of the squares of Vn and Vt:

V = Sqrt(Vn^2 + Vt^2) = Sqrt(Vn X Vn + Vt X Vt)

And yes, Vn and Vt are the legs of a right triangle where V is the hypotenuse!

The induced spin on the OB is irrelevant as far as its initial speed after the collision is concerned. It may be irrelevant to total travel distance as well (i.e., how fast it loses speed), but I can't say I'm really sure about that.

Jim
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Isn't V the instantaneous velocity of the contact point on the object ball? I thought you are interested in the direction the ball is going ( like to the hole ). Isn't that just Vn? How does Vt contribute to the path of the ball?
 
toi

ENGLISH! said:
Robin,

Thanks.

But just to be clear & so no one gets confused, you are aware that CJ's TOI is not the same as simply hitting a shot with inside english, correct?

The tip placement to the inside is for two separate intentions & outcomes & they are dependent on the speed of the shot relative to the distance between the balls.

TOI is utilizing the squirt factor to add cut to the shot & inside english is used to either throw the OB or change the angle coming off a rail or both.

I've just seen too many that have not understood the difference & just think that TOI is inside english.

I would not want your post to add to the confusion.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
Click to expand...

Rick,
I do understand the difference and like the versatility. Thanks for asking.
 
336Robin said:
Rick,
I do understand the difference and like the versatility. Thanks for asking.
Click to expand...

Robin,

I figured that you did. I just did not want anyone else to take it wrong.

I bet CJ would like it if more understood the difference.

As for me, I hope no one else ever finds out.:wink:

Best,
Rick

PS If you want, please feel free to bounce your 'new stuff' off of me in PM. I promise to keep it a 'secret'.
 
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Well I think a better way of saying it is....

JarnoV said:
I think another factor here is that it's so difficult to describe verbally things that you learn in a physical activity such as pool billiards. There are things that you could say, but you realize that they might sound banal and trivial when said out loud.

I think a good example is the concept of relaxed arm. I think it's safe to say that most people agree that it's best to keep arm relaxed when shooting. But term itself is pretty much meaningless. If your hand is completely relaxed, the cue stick will fall to ground. Of course, saying that the hand has to be relaxed, can give some guidance to a newcomer, but eventually everyone has to find just the right level of relaxedness themselves (or, everyone's brain has to figure that out).

The deeper you go, the more difficult it becomes to verbally describe the things you've learned.
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What I've been saying for years which gets to the WHY behind the loose arm thing is to "Let the weight of the cue do the work".

Jaden
 
New Stuff

ENGLISH! said:
Robin,

I figured that you did. I just did not want anyone else to take it wrong.

I bet CJ would like it if more understood the difference.

As for me, I hope no one else ever finds out.:wink:

Best,
Rick

PS If you want, please feel free to bounce your 'new stuff' off of me in PM. I promise to keep it a 'secret'.
Click to expand...

Send me a pm or email me at aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com I may do just that.
 
a blind squirrel finds a nut

(((Satori))) said:
Yes, self limiting beliefs about techniques, concepts, & abilities.

Glad...glad...gla...gl = funny!
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Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. ;)

Blind-Squirrel-Finds-a-Nut-small.jpg
 
pvc lou said:
Isn't V the instantaneous velocity of the contact point on the object ball? I thought you are interested in the direction the ball is going ( like to the hole ). Isn't that just Vn? How does Vt contribute to the path of the ball?
Click to expand...
V is the speed of the ball as a whole, whether it's spinning or not (i.e., translational velocity). Because of friction between the balls, on a cut shot the object ball doesn't travel exactly along the line drawn through their centers at the moment of impact. It has two components of velocity, one along that line of centers (Vn), and one perpendicular to it (Vt) due to the friction. Its total velocity is the vector sum of both. To add the vectors, place the tail of Vt onto the head of Vn, then V is the vector which goes from the tail of Vn to the head of Vt.
Vector_Add.jpg
Whatever length you choose for Vn, if Vt is accordingly proportional (i.e., its length represents the magnitude of the throw velocity relative to the length of Vn), then V represents the ball's velocity in both magnitude and direction relative to Vn and Vt. (The throw velocity here is a bit exaggerated.)

I don't know if that answers your question.

Jim
 
ENGLISH! said:
Satori,

Some very good points. Points that evryone should give some serious thought.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

PS I prefer to categorize & recognize my abilities both in the game & my ability to learn as gifts. Gifts that I graciously accept, appreciate, acknowledge, & remember to give thanks to Who Ever or Where Ever they come from.
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Thanks Rick.

I like the term gifts.
 
jay helfert said:
Ok, here's a couple, one a little more broad and one very specific. The pros all know this. ALWAYS keep your composure! Never let anything fluster you. Stay calm and you have a better chance to win. Sounds pretty simple but it isn't. Ever see what happens when a pool player gets excited? The good players stay calm even after making a great shot. Keep your emotions in check at all times and your results will be better.

Here's one you may not know. On a super thin cut shot, you can cut the ball more cleanly by cueing with low english (center ball, firm stroke). You'll make a cleaner hit and get zero skid. You can actually cut the ball thinner (and more accurately) using low english. TRUE! I'm talking super thin cut shots, where you need to hit the outside edge of the ball with a firm stroke. Try it, you'll like it! But remember, this is a secret! :cool:
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Thank you Jay. Been reading this post looking for something other than channel Amen Ra or some such. I can actually go practice this and see if it works for me. TOI from CJ helped me in a few tough spots.
 
why we would want to sub contact the "work" of playing the game to the cue.

Jaden said:
What I've been saying for years which gets to the WHY behind the loose arm thing is to "Let the weight of the cue do the work".

Jaden
Click to expand...

I never understood why we would want to sub contact the "work" of playing the game to the cue. 'The Game is the Teacher' , not the cue. ;)
 
I was thinking the same thing when I read that.

Put the cue down on the table & see how much work it does.

When I have played my best the cue was like a part of my body. It was like it was growing right out my hand.

It's that kind of connection & feel for which we should be striving, not a disconnection.

All of the above are just my opinions and...'I could be wrong'.
 
The way I describe it for me, "let the cue do the work", is to not force the shot. Stroke smoothly, and the cue will do the rest.

The more I try to impose my will on it, the worse it ends up. If I let the cue do the work, I get better results.
 
It's like an artist "letting the paint brush do the painting," or a musician as well

justadub said:
The way I describe it for me, "let the cue do the work", is to not force the shot. Stroke smoothly, and the cue will do the rest.

The more I try to impose my will on it, the worse it ends up. If I let the cue do the work, I get better results.
Click to expand...

As long as you're satisfied with the results then there's no reason to consider changing, "if it's not broke, don't seek to fix it"

For me I can't help but ponder the following:

It's like an artist "letting the paint brush do the painting," or a musician "letting the instrument do the playing (work)....or the golfer "letting the club do the playing" (work)....or the tennis player "letting the racquet do the playing (work)......or the baseball player "letting the bat do the hitting" (work).......etc.

Only in pool have I heard the notion of "letting the cue do the work (playing)"....One thing about the world of pool, it's certainly unique. ;) 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
Not to argue with a Champion.... :grin:

I think we are in different lanes on this highway.

I'm not expecting my cue to decide what to do and how to do it. I'm letting the cue do what it is supposed to do once I put it in motion....and I am not trying to force it. That relates to being relaxed versus gripping too tightly.

Does that make more sense, Sensei? :smile:
 
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