selling out to japan!

cornerstone

cornerstone

Psalm 91:15
Silver Member
what do you think about people signing a contract not to sell anything to americans for years,and do you think it hurts thier market when they come back,with the overseas market getting soft and ours picking up,whats in store?what do you azers think about this practice,???
 
While I have not, and would not, deal with someone who forsake their American brethren, I have read several posts here of those who got caught in the middle of these contract negotiations and either were stuck for their deposits, with no cue ever delivered (illegal as hell), or were promised a cue and then denied because of the overseas contract.

One thing I have noticed is that is this whole overseas only contracts for cues has left a mighty nasty taste in many potential purchasers' mouths. I personally think these cuemakers are cutting off their own noses to spite their faces. There are just enough good to excellent cuemakers who will sell to those here in the States, that these other cuemakers are not making an impact....nor a demand. Most will and do feel betrayed, and will never deal with these cuemakers.

Bottom line is, they are hurting their potential to sell their cues here in the States; not our ability to purchase a well crafted, sought after cue.

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
While I have not, and would not, deal with someone who forsake their American brethren, I have read several posts here of those who got caught in the middle of these contract negotiations and either were stuck for their deposits, with no cue ever delivered (illegal as hell), or were promised a cue and then denied because of the overseas contract.

One thing I have noticed is that is this whole overseas only contracts for cues has left a mighty nasty taste in many potential purchasers' mouths. I personally think these cuemakers are cutting off their own noses to spite their faces. There are just enough good to excellent cuemakers who will sell to those here in the States, that these other cuemakers are not making an impact....nor a demand. Most will and do feel betrayed, and will never deal with these cuemakers.

Bottom line is, they are hurting their potential to sell their cues here in the States; not our ability to purchase a well crafted, sought after cue.

Lisa
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Well said..............................:) :D :)
 
First, let me say that I hate the fact that I can not order certain cues, because they are all going to Asia.

However, cuemakers are small businesses and, like any small business, they have to do what they have to do to make a success out of their buisness. They have to make a living and support their families and a guaranteed contract is a great way to do that. These are just people trying to make a decent living. Cut them some slack.
 
Hunter said:
Tony and Joe who...?????
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they both make good playing cues,Ihave a couple of boars but they did not move at the show! and tony said the fancy one is 4000.00 underpriced. one gentleman (A big collector) when i showed it to him he calle it the al-quida of cues and you couldnt talk him into buying it!
 
I believe in building a strong business on a base of satisfied repeat customers. Generally, the more your customer base is spread around, the less vulnerable you are to customer turnover.

In this sort of business, it's vital to have a loyal following. That means you must not only build the cues, but you must service them. If a foreign group came to me and offered me 10 years of income for 2 years of production, it would certainly be tempting. However, if it were at the expense of losing 10 years worth of hard won customers because I could no longer service them, I would definitely not do it unless I planned on retiring after the party was over.

To accept such an offer is risky business. I like to shoot for long term goals.

Chris
 
Sad, but for some, a neccessity

cornerstone said:
what do you think about people signing a contract not to sell anything to americans for years,and do you think it hurts thier market when they come back,with the overseas market getting soft and ours picking up,whats in store?what do you azers think about this practice,???
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The amount of goods coming IN to this country from overseas is letting us know that PRICE...NOT QUALITY...is driving our economic whims. For the few cuemakers that are in such demand that they can export them I say good luck. If Americans paid top dollar to get top quality then our manufacturing base would not be slipping away. Most the cues I sell now are from China, Indonesia, Taiwan etc. Pool tables are at 45% import and will be over 50% very soon. American consumers SAY they want to support American businesses and manufacturers, but the facts say otherwise. Cuemakers or whoever is signing an overseas contract is getting the most for his product. I am sure if an American wanted to buy out some cuemakers overseas contract...then all it would take is MONEY...If no one is doing it..you cannot fault the businessman. He is feeding his family and paying his mortgage same as everyone else. Most people buying cues are looking for a "deal" not looking to help the American economy.
 
Forgive me for trying to get a clarification on the following:

1) the overseas contract referred prohibits the cuemaker to sell to americans?

2) aren't these contracts some sort of a "futures" deal where the buyer "buys up" future production for a certain period? This means that anybody can still buy the cues in question. Its just that you now talk to the one who bought up all the cues.

Why it happens? For me, its economics (supply and demand). Secondly, products have a life cycle. Some have long product life cycles and some have short ones. The biggest companies no matter how great will plateau out in sales and profits. Then you reach the point of diminishing returns... despite increased prioduction, you still lose money. So they try to find a way to extend their life cycle while maintaning or reducing (ever increasing) costs. That's why buy-outs and mergers occur.
 
cornerstone said:
what do you think about people signing ?what do you azers think about this practice,???
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are these "people" the cuemakers? if that is so, it is their own,,,stupid,,,fault.

it is a brainless move, but whoever accused them of being smart.
 
TATE said:
I believe in building a strong business on a base of satisfied repeat customers. Generally, the more your customer base is spread around, the less vulnerable you are to customer turnover.

In this sort of business, it's vital to have a loyal following. That means you must not only build the cues, but you must service them. If a foreign group came to me and offered me 10 years of income for 2 years of production, it would certainly be tempting. However, if it were at the expense of losing 10 years worth of hard won customers because I could no longer service them, I would definitely not do it unless I planned on retiring after the party was over.

To accept such an offer is risky business. I like to shoot for long term goals.

Chris
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Its a "feed the family now" and "starve them later" mentality !!!!!!!! LMAO:D
 
monski said:
Forgive me for trying to get a clarification on the following:

1) the overseas contract referred prohibits the cuemaker to sell to americans?

2) aren't these contracts some sort of a "futures" deal where the buyer "buys up" future production for a certain period? This means that anybody can still buy the cues in question. Its just that you now talk to the one who bought up all the cues.
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The oversees contracts do not prohibit cuemakers from selling to Americans. They generally prohibit cuemakers from selling to anyone. When most of these guys sign with Lucky (or whoever else) they are signing a contract saying that they cannot and will not take any orders from anyone. All orders are to go through the "contractor" (Lucky).

So no. It doesn't really prohibit sale to Americans. But it does prohibit selling to anyone other than the guy who contracted you.

And you are right. Any American can contact the contractor (dealer, whatever you want to call him) and buy cues through him. However, as I experienced when I got in touch with Lucky, he'll flat out tell you that you are better off trying to find one on the second hand market because he marks his cues up so high that he'd be ripping you off. The difference is, people in the overseas market will pay the money and thus, he can afford to mark up his cues.
 
cornerstone said:
what do you think about people signing a contract not to sell anything to americans for years,and do you think it hurts thier market when they come back,with the overseas market getting soft and ours picking up,whats in store?what do you azers think about this practice,???
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I've got mixed feelings concerning this subject. I don't mind seeing a cuemaker selling his product to the Japanese. I just don't think it wise to limit themselves to that market only.

The American market can be tough. Try putting 3 months into building a cue that looks and plays jam-up only to have some guy that can't run 3 balls tell you it's over-priced. It's the difference between making a decent salary, and Wal-Mart wages..
 
I don't think you have it right

What I have heard is that alot of the cream of the crop cue makers are makeing a high percentage of thier cues for people that are willing to pay a premium and buy a high percentage of the cues produced. Because the buyers are sometimes paying another 50-100% in duties to get the cues legaly and sell them in thier country they ask that the cuemakers not sell below what they are offering to pay willingly.So the cue makers are bound only by the fact that if they sell at a lower price to the public they will only insure that thier best buyers will go elsewhere! Nick
 
cornerstone said:
what do you think about people signing a contract not to sell anything to americans for years,and do you think it hurts thier market when they come back,with the overseas market getting soft and ours picking up,whats in store?what do you azers think about this practice,???
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Think that we have been down this road a couple of times before. My feeling is that the cuemakers who are signing these contracts are basically turning their backs on the players/collectors that supported them as they perfected their craft. Most, if not all, are true master craftsmen who are very well respected. Unfortunately, I see a rude awakening for them when they decide to return to the open market. As my Dad said "Don't s@#t where you eat, and don't eat where you s@#t.
 
nick serdula said:
What I have heard is that alot of the cream of the crop cue makers are makeing a high percentage of thier cues for people that are willing to pay a premium and buy a high percentage of the cues produced. Because the buyers are sometimes paying another 50-100% in duties to get the cues legaly and sell them in thier country they ask that the cuemakers not sell below what they are offering to pay willingly.So the cue makers are bound only by the fact that if they sell at a lower price to the public they will only insure that thier best buyers will go elsewhere! Nick
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Very interesting perspective...............
 
personality

It personally wouldn't bother me if Joe G never sold another cue in this country. I bought 7 cues from him in the late nineties and early 2000. I met him at a tournament and he basically blew me off. I had heard he was arrogant, but it took a first hand experience to confirm this.

Don't normally like to put up negetive posts, but it shows how strong I feel about this. Sorry........

Jimmy
 
Jimmyrayk said:
It personally wouldn't bother me if Joe G never sold another cue in this country. I bought 7 cues from him in the late nineties and early 2000. I met him at a tournament and he basically blew me off. I had heard he was arrogant, but it took a first hand experience to confirm this.

Don't normally like to put up negetive posts, but it shows how strong I feel about this. Sorry........

Jimmy
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I can't imagine why he is so arrogant. His cues are generally unattractive and based on the consensus of many people that I've talked to, most people won't buy his cues because he went over sees and returned with jacked up prices!
 
Custom Cue Market in General

Some cuemakers have sold out to collectors / dealers, while others simply have limited their production which has created an increased demand for their product. I remember when I first got into pool in the early 90s custom cue makers really couldnt give them away in a sense, now its 1000 for a no-pointer. I think the pool community has to decide on what direction to go...
 
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