Hunter said:
THAT IS THE BEST POST IN THIS WHOLE THREAD. THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD ORDER A CUE FROM EITHER OF THESE SELLOUTS.
selling out to japan!
- Thread starter cornerstone
- Start date
THAT IS THE BEST POST IN THIS WHOLE THREAD. THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD ORDER A CUE FROM EITHER OF THESE SELLOUTS.
Lmao
Im still laughing at that--I spoke to one of those people about a cue, and they noted not being able to make one for me because of an unnamed Japanese dealer. Anyway, last year at VF I had a chance to hit a cue which was valued at $15K and the 900 skip I was considering hit much better and more solid. Still regret not buying that skip from Bill.
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
Im still laughing at that--I spoke to one of those people about a cue, and they noted not being able to make one for me because of an unnamed Japanese dealer. Anyway, last year at VF I had a chance to hit a cue which was valued at $15K and the 900 skip I was considering hit much better and more solid. Still regret not buying that skip from Bill.
Just curious
If you worked at a Chrysler plant making $45,000 a year, and Nissan offered you a job in their Tennessee plant making $200,000 a year. Would you go? Would you be an "unpatriotic sellout working for the Japanese?" I think more "patriotic Americans" would move than stay. There seems to be a lot of negative feeling in this thread. and just a touch of racism.
If you worked at a Chrysler plant making $45,000 a year, and Nissan offered you a job in their Tennessee plant making $200,000 a year. Would you go? Would you be an "unpatriotic sellout working for the Japanese?" I think more "patriotic Americans" would move than stay. There seems to be a lot of negative feeling in this thread. and just a touch of racism.
The issue to me seems to be different. In my eyes, Chris (Tate) said it best when he stated that they are looking out for the short term, but in his opinion lost sight of the big picture.
I don't think its so much "who" they sold out to, but "what" they sold our for.
I personally like the way Southwest handles this. They don't have a contract with anyone exclusively (as far as I know) but limiting the number of cues any one "buyer" can order at a time does reduce the potential for a buyer/broker to monopolize their cues on the new market.
I don't think its so much "who" they sold out to, but "what" they sold our for.
I personally like the way Southwest handles this. They don't have a contract with anyone exclusively (as far as I know) but limiting the number of cues any one "buyer" can order at a time does reduce the potential for a buyer/broker to monopolize their cues on the new market.
PoolSleuth
Banned
cornerstone said:
I personally think it is fine, as long as both parties abide to the terms of the contract. If I was a Hot Cuemaker, and a Dealer from the Distant Planet ZUPO made me a deal that Guaranteed me a Nice income without all the hassles of dealing with individual orders, customers, etc. I might sign that contract....
If you're a factory worker making a generic product for a generic clientele, it probably wouldn't make much difference whose plant you worked at. When you're a craftsman that works one on one with the customer and has been supported through your learning curve by those same customers, I think there should be some kind of loyalty. It would be one thing to diversify and have a portion of your sales earmarked for overseas sales to increase your potential profit margin, but to just completely wrap up shop right in the middle of doing repairwork and building cues for loyal customers that have been on a waiting list is a textbook sellout! Then to come back hat in hand asking for that business back is just ludicrous...
I can also understand the remarks about feeding your family, etc., but if making the almighty dollar is the ONLY thing to consider, then we should all sell crack or become prostitutes. It seems like the prevalent notion in America today is "What's in it for me"? I know a lot of cuemakers and I can honestly say not one of them or their families are starving.
I can also understand the remarks about feeding your family, etc., but if making the almighty dollar is the ONLY thing to consider, then we should all sell crack or become prostitutes. It seems like the prevalent notion in America today is "What's in it for me"? I know a lot of cuemakers and I can honestly say not one of them or their families are starving.
cueandcushion said:
I don't see anything of the sort. A better analogy would be if you worked at a chrysler plant making 45,000 and then got offered a job working in japan for 200,000, but after you got released form that job you came back to your old company who taught you the trade and was there for you when you made mistakes until you perfected your craft. And making it like they should automatically rehire you just because you know the job well. Well there are now much more qualified workers then before and the demand for your skill isn't as high. So who is chrysler going to choose? Someone who left them in the beggining when they were short of exp. Or the new guy with the college degree that will take less of a salary then you. No racism. Nothing too negative but I can agree with almost every single person on this thread about those cuemakers. It isn't so much that they sold out to japan it is the fact that they completely ostracized the american customers from buying any of their cues. When we were the ones buying them when they weren't as skilled, when they didn't have the demand, and thier general audience was very small. Now that they perfected the craft, broadened their horizons, and have some demand now they move on to another market. Leaving all their supporters behind. Tony and Joe are very good cuemakers. but they will never be mentioned with the likes of tascarella, searing, szamboti, ginacue, mottey, scruggs, and the rest. Who knows how big their demand would have been if they just kept the market open to anyone who wanted a cue from them. I guess we'll never know
Tony
Mystick Cue Fan said:
TONY,
VERY WELL WORDED, AND I AGREE 100%
this is a illusion, you are still working in the us ,paying taxes in the us, and selling your product to the us.if gm sold all there caddilacs to japan only not offering them for sale in the us,I would buy a Dodge and i hate dodges!.!.!I started this thread because iwas thinking about buying a boar on the second market,with very little margin for profit!and the ones i took to the show didnt sell and tony said I was $4,000 to cheap on the price,and it still didnt sell.I like his cues but alot of people were making comments about selling out!so I thought i would get more input before plunking down 7000+ FOR SOMTHING I MIGHT BE STUCK WITHcueandcushion said:
nick serdula said:
Nick...You are absolutely correct!!!!!!!
That's it!!
These cues might sell for that in Japan, but there are many comparable alternatives for that kind of money; he has guaranteed sales but you as a cue dealer do not just because its a BB. I personally could name 5 alternatives that I would rather have "if" I was going to spend that kind of money, like that balabuska on proficients website for 8500.
cornerstone said:
These cues might sell for that in Japan, but there are many comparable alternatives for that kind of money; he has guaranteed sales but you as a cue dealer do not just because its a BB. I personally could name 5 alternatives that I would rather have "if" I was going to spend that kind of money, like that balabuska on proficients website for 8500.
but the part that is incorrect (first hand knowledge) is the dealer in question does not pay tarrifs or dutys because he has people bring them across personally or has them declaird at 120.00 us to avoid that.and he is taking a great chance. Now tony could have did what tim scruggs did and offered to sell a certin # for a certin price, and still be able to make cues for the americans!but to sell soley to lucky and and have lucky mark them up in excess of 300% and tell people that have had orders or been loyal customers sorry about your luck! now I like tonys cues, how they play and look,his silver work is as good as any on the market, and i think they should command a priemum.But i got alot of bad feedback at the show when i would proudly show off the cue! now on the other hand Bob manzino still sells a few to us and his prices are skyrocketing and i cant keep them in long enough to put on the site! his workmanship is a little tighter and he makes his own blanks.and they play comprable and i have collectors that will not even flinch for 15-20,000 for one of his . I guess this thread has told me its all markiting!SirBanksALot said:Nick...You are absolutely correct!!!!!!!
you guys as always have been a plethera of knowledge.and have helped me in my decision,. I always lurk and watch what is hot and in your feedback on playability. and it really helps me choose what i try to sell on my site,and i was amazed at bringing it back from the show?so when a thread came out on personality,just wanted to test the waters on my hunch! and this thread had nothing to do with joe. it was just a decision helper,I think ill buy a fancy szampaulybatz said:
Wow
I would have never guessed anybody would do anything so backhanded as this thread unless it were I. That is the best inside joke I have seen played in public in a long time. Amazing ! It reminds me of Andy Kauphman. You are a genius, and yes it is funny and if you are not laughing the joke is on you. Nick
I would have never guessed anybody would do anything so backhanded as this thread unless it were I. That is the best inside joke I have seen played in public in a long time. Amazing ! It reminds me of Andy Kauphman. You are a genius, and yes it is funny and if you are not laughing the joke is on you. Nick
nick serdula said:
Am I missing something here? It was a valid question here to post, no matter the reason, as it has been touched in discussion in some other threads. The practice of 'buying' a cuemaker to corner the market, so that you can then charge someone up the ol' wazzuu for the priviledge of purchasing one, while it may make good business sense for the individual controlling the market, does tend to piss people off. So, if it makes for good business sense for the individual controlling the market, and it makes good business sense for any given cuemaker who chooses to enter into such said 'pact'.......then why on earth would it NOT make good business sense for a dealer/reseller to not research his demographic to see if a particular product (cuemaker) is a good investment?!!!!
ANY person(s) who is starting or in business had better do market research on their targeted demographic, or they're going to be pretty well FUBAR'd!!
Additionally, since it was already brought up by CueandCushion.......racism has absolutely NOTHING to do with this thread! It could just as easily have been Bob the Brit, Abdullah the Arab, or JoeBlow from Kokomo.....it just happens to be someone in Japan that is engaged in this practice....but there were no racial slurs here!! I believe the practice would be fond to be just as distasteful to many NO MATTER WHERE OR WHO was involved. Period.
Finally....no one is knocking the quality of the product any cuemaker who is involved in these 'pacts' is making. Many are very highly regarded. But as with any business that starts as a hobby, it should not be relied upon as a sole source of income until you have built the reputation and following, as some have, that ALLOW it to be a sole source of income. To do otherwise is just folly. For some of these cuemakers, who may be enjoying a lovely extended paid vacation now, they may well find themselves scrambling for a second job to put food on the table once their contracts expire, because they will have lost the confidence of those that where forsaken closer to home.
Failing to see the forest for the trees can have dire consequences.
Lisa
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cornerstone said:
People need to pay their bills, business is business, I see nothing wrong with anyone doing the best thing for their business and their families. Not to mention doesn't anyone read this group, the uneducated American market sucks for cues and cue makers, people would much rather try to get a bargin then pay for quality work. People like Marcus are rare, not the majority. What I see are people who would rather by a Coker instead of a Southwest, a Phillippi instead of a Gina and a Murrell instead of a Scruggs, then they want to talk up how these cues are "just as good". If I were a cuemaker I would follow the money. Anyone who wants a cuemaker to starve just to seel to people in his own country are the same crowd who buy lesser know cuemaker cues and brag about how they are "just as good", it's just bad business and a lack of education. Also in such a small world mis information seems to be king, people spout off about things they have no idea about. Joe Gold is NOT with Lucky anymore and there are no written contracts with Lucky. People need to go direct to the horses mouth before they spread rumors.
Jim
That's telling em JimBo, I totaly agree with you!
American Cue Dealers
American cue dealers with high dollar cues to sell have a somewhat limited group of clientele that will spend big big bucks on a cue. Why not do everything you can to to make sure that the "somewhat limited clientele" spend their $$$ with you - not with those cuemakers that sell their product thru a Japanese dealer!!!!
I certainly understand the rationale for the USA cue dealers wanting to keep that money where it belongs...here in the USA in USA bank accounts. That's good business!
BTW - there are no written contracts with Lucky - I know this to be true. Also - in at least one case, a cuemaker that works closely with Lucky will be happy to build anyone a cue as long as you will pay him whatever Lucky would want for the same cue. And that's good business also!
"Right On" to Jimbo and Nick !!
American cue dealers with high dollar cues to sell have a somewhat limited group of clientele that will spend big big bucks on a cue. Why not do everything you can to to make sure that the "somewhat limited clientele" spend their $$$ with you - not with those cuemakers that sell their product thru a Japanese dealer!!!!
I certainly understand the rationale for the USA cue dealers wanting to keep that money where it belongs...here in the USA in USA bank accounts.
That's good business!BTW - there are no written contracts with Lucky - I know this to be true. Also - in at least one case, a cuemaker that works closely with Lucky will be happy to build anyone a cue as long as you will pay him whatever Lucky would want for the same cue. And that's good business also!
"Right On" to Jimbo and Nick !!
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