Shady Business Practices Need An Opinion?

manwon

manwon said:
Well I suppose another one bites the dust, without even being named. It's funny how dishonest people like to stay in the shadows. At least we all know who the individual is, without the person who started the thread even mentioning it.

All I can say is this thread has served a purpose, and Quality Cues, has just gone up in Flames and Smoke. Some people just do not get it, when dealing on the Internet, there is nothing more important than credibility, and when that is gone, you may never get it back. Dishonest behavior, and thinking only about ones self will not get you anywhere long term.

Oh and by the way, changing ones user name will not last long term either, your world will continue to get smaller and smaller until you will have no where to hide.;)

Thanks very much, to the person who started this thread, this is how we protect our community!!!!!!!

you show time and time again, your mind.
just my respects sir.
 
smokey said:
you show time and time again, your mind.
just my respects sir.

Thanks Smoky, I am a very simple person who lives by a very simple creed, treat others the way you would treat the special people in your life. If we all did this life would also be very simple, and all people would like what they see in the Mirror. I suspect that all of our actions in life directly expose how we feel about ourselves and this is something no one can hide.

Merry Christmas Smokey!!!!!
 
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TATE said:
I case anyone has any doubts, Chris Sebastian here is an excellent person to deal with. He knows his stuff, describes it well, and delivers.

Chris



you got that right chris.

must be everyone named "chris" is top notch huh?

merry christmas.



chris G
 
manwon said:
Thanks Smoky, I am a very simple person who lives by a very creed, treat others the way you would treat the special people in your life. If we all did this life would also be very simple, and all people would like what they see in the Mirror. I suspect that all of our actions in life directly expose how we feel about ourselves and this is something no one can hide.

Merry Christmas Smokey!!!!!

I know Craig. It is easy to know you. Thank you my friend!

Merry Christmas!!
 
Jimmyrayk said:
As far as this thread goes, there are certain dealers on here similar to used car salesmen. Whatever they have is the greatest Mottey, or the greatest Andy Gilbert, or the greatest whatever that ever hit the market and anything you own is a piece of shit. Funny how that works. :rolleyes:

Sincerely,
Jimmy Kissinger

I'm a used car salesman. You hurt my feelings! I think I still have some left after all the public abuse we take:D
 
Quality Cues said:
I was waiting to receive my White cue back before I gave the true account about what occurred with respect to this transaction. That's right, Ron's version of the facts does not comport with reality. Surprise, surprise, he omitted material facts. The facts are as follows:

Ron wanted to trade a used White wrapless cue for an August 2007 White hoppe cue that was in MINT condition (one shaft test hit only). I spoke with him on the phone and he suggested that I look at the AZB thread from which he purchased the cue earlier this month, so I did. The thread gave all the specs on the cue, except for the length. It also said that there was a scratch in the butt end of the cue that could be polished out. It said nothing about multiple chips in the butt cap or a noticeable ding in the butt sleeve. After I looked at the thread, I called Ron and asked him point blank if he could see the scratch or any dings or dents in the cue. He said "no" and that the cue had been polished by the prior owner. So, I believed that I would be getting a used, but near mint condition cue if the deal proceeded. We agreed that he would ship me his White cue and $100.00 at his expense by USPS Express Mail, and if I accepted the cue, I would ship him my White by USPS Express Mail on the day I received his cue. Alternatively, if I rejected his White cue, I would ship it back at my expense by USPS Express Mail.

On 12/16, Ron was on the way to the Post Office, I called him and told him not to ship his White as one of the tips looked paper thin and I did not want to deal with getting it retipped. There are no cue makers anywhere near where I live and I do not retip cues. I asked for no additional consideration. Ron immediately offered me an extra $25 to get the shaft retipped, and I accepted, thinking I would have it done at the DCC in three weeks. Again, I asked for nothing.

I received the cue on 12/17. I immediately called Ron and told him that contrary to his representations, the cue had several chips in the butt cap, a noticeable ding in the butt sleeve between the rings, and a very noticeable scratch that went through one of the rings in the sleeve/handle section. I told him that I was rejecting the cue and was going to ship him his cue and case back that afternoon by USPS Express Mail at my expense, as agreed. I asked for no additional consideration. He immediately offered me an extra $125.00 to complete the deal. I told him that the condition of his cue was not the kind of cue that I deal in. I only sell brand new/unchalked or near mint condition cues (cues that are like new, but chalked with no dings, dents or scratches). After some discussion, we agreed that I would keep the 1x2 hard case he shipped the White to me in. At this time, I had no idea that the cue was 59" and nobody ever told me that it was. On 12/17, I shipped my White cue by USPS Express Mail and e-mailed Ron copies of the shipping documents (something that I almost always do).

That evening, after dinner I hit the White cue, and it hit just fine. After I played a match at my house with my Nitti cue, I speced out the White cue that Ron had delivered earlier in the day. To my dismay, the cue was 59". This was when I learned for the first time that the cue was 59" as opposed to 58". I called Ron on Saturday morning and told him that he had traded me a 59" cue that would be very difficult, if not impossible, to resell and that I wanted my cue back. I offered to pay for the return shipping on my cue and ship his cue back at my expense by USPS Express Mail, as we originally had agreed in the event that I rejected his cue. After he played with my cue in a tournament on Saturday, he e-mailed and told me that my cue would be returned upon receipt of his White, the case and $160.00. Today, I shipped Ron his White, case and a $160.00 USPS money order, and e-mail him copies of the receipts for the shipping and money order.

The way I read Ron's version of the "facts," he would have you all believe that I pressured him into giving me additional consideration to complete the deal. To the contrary, I never, repeat, never, asked Ron in any way, shape or form for additional consideration to complete the deal. In fact, in a PM just this evening, Ron admitted the same. I requested that he not ship me the cue on 12/16, and immediately rejected the cue on 12/17 after I inspected it, and telephoned him to let him know. He, and he alone, suggested that he infuse additional consideration into the deal to get me to ship him my White cue, which he just had to have. The only mistake I made was agreeing to take the case as additional consideration and not shipping his cue back on 12/17.

So, I'm the one that's out about $110.00 on shipping. Ron, on the other hand, is out nothing. I got the short end of the stick, but learned a valuable lesson. When someone has misrepresented the condition of a cue, as Ron did (as Ron informed in a PM late night, if a cue hits great like this White, he does not care about chips in the butt cap, a noticeable ding in the forearm and a scratch you would have to be blind not to see, and apparently does not see fit to accurately represent the cue to someone he knows is going to resell it), ship it back at once and have no discussion at all with the person who has made the misrepresentations. It's not worth it. I've done more successful and flawless cue deals than most people on this site, and have received very positive feedback. This deal went wrong as soon as Ron decided to misrepresent the condition of his White cue. He knew from the first time that we spoke that I only deal in Mint or Near Mint cues. Ron's cue was neither, not even close. So, these are the true facts.

I will not engage in debate about this transaction. None of you who were so quick to accept Ron's version of the "facts" and judge the situation were present to know the true state of affairs. I was and do, and my conscious is clear. I have now given a completely accurate account of how the deal transpired. Judging someone based upon one person's view of the "facts" is wrong, and displays ignorance in its most basic form. That's why I choose not to jump on the band wagon when someone is being beat up on a thread. Why anyone would believe Ron's version of the "facts" when he blatantly misrepresented the condition of a cue is beyond me. So, this is my first and last post to this nasty thread. I will continue selling only mint or near mint cues, and nothing in the thread will dissuade me from doing so. I have a list of customers a mile long, and have completed countless smooth transactions, many with repeat customers.

Best to all (even those who have bashed me on this thread -- I remain unblemished) in the New Year.

Well that is party "b's" side of the story. No surprise it is slightly different than party "a's"
 
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Problem is there are

So many of these "Stories" that it kind of makes you wonder.
 
sebas said:
So many of these "Stories" that it kind of makes you wonder.



One only need go to small claims court for a day to hear great stories. There is party A?s, Party B?s, and the Judge get to figure out the truth.
drinktime.gif
 
TATE said:
In case anyone has any doubts, Chris Sebastian here is an excellent person to deal with. He knows his stuff, describes it well, and delivers.

Chris

I AGREE 100%. CHRIS AND I HAVE DONE NUMEROUS DEALS IN THE PAST WITHOUT ANY ISSUES.

I WOULD GIVE ME WORD, THAT ANYTHING HE SAYS IS THE TRUTH.
 
This Is My Take On The Whole Thing..........

Some People Only Care About The 100 Their Gonna Make On A Deal, And With Go To Great Lengths To Make Sure They Can Stretch That 100 To 150 Or 200, Even If It Means Acting Like A Nit.

A Played Cue Is A Played Cue, If You Want To Spend 3 Hours Going Over The Entire Cue Feel Free. I Don't Have The Time Or The Patience To Deal With That.

People Could Easily See In My Pics That The Cue Was Played, You Could See The Scratch (which Was Easily Buffed Out, But I Didn't Want To Take The Time To Do It), And Some Of The Dings. You Could Also See That One Of The Tips Was Low. (i Left That Tip On The Cue, Because It Played Good, But You'd Have To Hit With A Cue To Know That)

When I Talked To Ron About The Cue, I Told Him, Bar None It Was The Best Playing White I Had Ever Had. Once He Had The Cue In His Hands He Agreed That The Cue Played And Felt Great. He Just Couldn't Adjust To Not Having A Wrap.......

I Told Him To Just Have A Wrap Added, Instead Of Doing This Trade Deal, And I'm Sure Now That He Wishes He Would Have Gone My Way.

In No Way Was The Cue Ever Represented As In Like New, Or Near New, Or New Condition. It's A Players Cue, Not A Collectible. A Player Should Own It And Enjoy It. Once You Hit With The Cue, It Didn't Matter That It Had A Scratch Or Some Dents, Because It Was To Be Used And Enjoyed, Not Sit In A Case.

If The Cue Had Been Sold As Like New, I Could See The Issue, But This Cue Was Not Sold This Way.
 
Here Is My Point To End This Thread. Mike Gartland Looked At This Cue Here On Az With The Description And Pictures Posted By Fast And Loose. I Told Him To Just To Get An Idea. The Description By Marcus Is Honest And True Except For The Cue Being 59 Inches Long Which He Didnt Know Either. I Shipped My Cue First For Inspection Where He Contacted Me Every Single Time He Found A Flaw. First It Was Tips, Then It Was Minor Chips In The Butt Cap, Then The Cue Was Found To Be 59 Inches. Because Of The Type Of Person I Am And Realizing That This Decreases Resale Value I Offered To Compensate Him And He Agreed To Those Terms Every Single Time. Hell After I Kept Sweetening The Deal He Probably Put The Cue Through An Xray Machine To See If It Was Internally Sound. If It Wasnt Im Sure I Would Have To Kick In Another $50 Or $100 To Get A Deal Done. As A Matter Of Fact He Again Contacted Me In The Evening Saturday During My Tourney That He Wanted To Discuss The Deal Again. Being Pissed Off Already I Never Even Considered It. Mike Will Get His Cue Back And This Will Be Laid To Rest. But Once Again I Find It Odd That People Came Out Of No Where To Describe Past Dealings With Quality Cues. Now Not That I Walk On Water But Not One Person Mentioned Any Problems With The Way I Do Business. Even Though Mike Has Done 5 Times As Many Deals As Me Here On Az I Want Everyone To Know That Its Not About The Quantity Of Deals But The "quality" Of The Deal That Counts. And Here I Am Returning His Cue Like The Stand Up Honest Guy I Am. I Didnt Have To But I Didnt Want Any Back Lash On My End. And For The Record To All My Fellow Az'ers Out There If Any Of You Every Sell Or Trade Me A Cue And The Tips Are Low Or There Is A Tiny Ding In The Forearm You Will Not Hear Any *****ing From Me And I Will Certainly Not Ask For A Discount. Thanks To All The People That Added Their 2 Cents To A Shady Situation.

Happy Holidays To Everybody

Thanks
Ron
 
POOLPLYR1111 said:
Here Is My Point To End This Thread. Mike Gartland Looked At This Cue Here On Az With The Description And Pictures Posted By Fast And Loose. I Told Him To Just To Get An Idea. The Description By Marcus Is Honest And True Except For The Cue Being 59 Inches Long Which He Didnt Know Either. I Shipped My Cue First For Inspection Where He Contacted Me Every Single Time He Found A Flaw. First It Was Tips, Then It Was Minor Chips In The Butt Cap, Then The Cue Was Found To Be 59 Inches. Because Of The Type Of Person I Am And Realizing That This Decreases Resale Value I Offered To Compensate Him And He Agreed To Those Terms Every Single Time. Hell After I Kept Sweetening The Deal He Probably Put The Cue Through An Xray Machine To See If It Was Internally Sound. If It Wasnt Im Sure I Would Have To Kick In Another $50 Or $100 To Get A Deal Done. As A Matter Of Fact He Again Contacted Me In The Evening Saturday During My Tourney That He Wanted To Discuss The Deal Again. Being Pissed Off Already I Never Even Considered It. Mike Will Get His Cue Back And This Will Be Laid To Rest. But Once Again I Find It Odd That People Came Out Of No Where To Describe Past Dealings With Quality Cues. Now Not That I Walk On Water But Not One Person Mentioned Any Problems With The Way I Do Business. Even Though Mike Has Done 5 Times As Many Deals As Me Here On Az I Want Everyone To Know That Its Not About The Quantity Of Deals But The "quality" Of The Deal That Counts. And Here I Am Returning His Cue Like The Stand Up Honest Guy I Am. I Didnt Have To But I Didnt Want Any Back Lash On My End. And For The Record To All My Fellow Az'ers Out There If Any Of You Every Sell Or Trade Me A Cue And The Tips Are Low Or There Is A Tiny Ding In The Forearm You Will Not Hear Any *****ing From Me And I Will Certainly Not Ask For A Discount. Thanks To All The People That Added Their 2 Cents To A Shady Situation.

Happy Holidays To Everybody

Thanks
Ron



I understand your frustrations and commend you for handling it in the manner you did, if it was me I would have told him to go pound sand the minute he *****ed about the tip being too low, what a joke. I'm glad you shared your story so I can add someone else to my "do not deal with" list.
Just be glad you didn't lose any money and you got your cue back!!
 
I Green Repped A Half A Dozen In This Thread

POOLPLYR1111 said:
Here Is My Point To End This Thread. Mike Gartland Looked At This Cue Here On Az With The Description And Pictures Posted By Fast And Loose. I Told Him To Just To Get An Idea. The Description By Marcus Is Honest And True Except For The Cue Being 59 Inches Long Which He Didnt Know Either. I Shipped My Cue First For Inspection Where He Contacted Me Every Single Time He Found A Flaw. First It Was Tips, Then It Was Minor Chips In The Butt Cap, Then The Cue Was Found To Be 59 Inches. Because Of The Type Of Person I Am And Realizing That This Decreases Resale Value I Offered To Compensate Him And He Agreed To Those Terms Every Single Time. Hell After I Kept Sweetening The Deal He Probably Put The Cue Through An Xray Machine To See If It Was Internally Sound. If It Wasnt Im Sure I Would Have To Kick In Another $50 Or $100 To Get A Deal Done. As A Matter Of Fact He Again Contacted Me In The Evening Saturday During My Tourney That He Wanted To Discuss The Deal Again. Being Pissed Off Already I Never Even Considered It. Mike Will Get His Cue Back And This Will Be Laid To Rest. But Once Again I Find It Odd That People Came Out Of No Where To Describe Past Dealings With Quality Cues. Now Not That I Walk On Water But Not One Person Mentioned Any Problems With The Way I Do Business. Even Though Mike Has Done 5 Times As Many Deals As Me Here On Az I Want Everyone To Know That Its Not About The Quantity Of Deals But The "quality" Of The Deal That Counts. And Here I Am Returning His Cue Like The Stand Up Honest Guy I Am. I Didnt Have To But I Didnt Want Any Back Lash On My End. And For The Record To All My Fellow Az'ers Out There If Any Of You Every Sell Or Trade Me A Cue And The Tips Are Low Or There Is A Tiny Ding In The Forearm You Will Not Hear Any *****ing From Me And I Will Certainly Not Ask For A Discount. Thanks To All The People That Added Their 2 Cents To A Shady Situation.

Happy Holidays To Everybody

Thanks
Ron


I can't decide whether to put you on Ignore or give you Bad Rep for capitalizing EVERY word. I guess I'll give you negative Rep the next time that I see you doing that.
Doug
( why continue to do it when it aggravates so many members and they have asked you to refrain from that practice ? )
 
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