shaft question - straight w/ wobble?

Loin

Loin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hi everybody. i am having some difficulty with someone who bought a cue from me on ebay. before listing the cue, i visually inspected the shaft and butt by sighting down the length and rotating and saw no curvature. i did the roll test flat on a pool table both together and separate and saw no problems. i have always judged the straightness of the shaft by whether or not the tip moves up and down when rolled and would consider that "wobble". the guy who bought the cue says that "the shaft does wobble but the tip does not leave the table". does anyone have any idea what he could be talking about? :confused:
thanks for any help.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
What the guy is talking about is referred to as taper roll.
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Yep he's right. Most likely, the seller was referring to a taper roll of 1/2 an inch or 1 inch roll. Usually, you've to put your shaft to your eyeline and roll the shaft really slowly to observe that taper roll.

Cheers,
Clarence
 
thank you. seems goofy to me. if the shaft is straight, the shaft is straight. the only way this could matter is for aesthetics or if you were twisting the cue when shooting.
 
taper roll

I owned a meucci with two shafts, one had a taper roll one was dead straight. The one with the taper roll moved quite a bit when rolled on the table but the tip and joint never left the table. I could not get used to that wobbly shaft, it was as if I could see it move during my stroke and it messed me up mentally. So to you it may not be a big deal, for him it might be a unusable cue.
 
Loin said:
thank you. seems goofy to me. if the shaft is straight, the shaft is straight. the only way this could matter is for aesthetics or if you were twisting the cue when shooting.
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The shaft could be s shaped or corkscrewed and the tip could stay on the table, so it isn't just aesthetics. Personally I am not so fussy about a little taper roll. Some people are. Some people feel there is no such thing and such a shaft is frankly called warped. I can't go by what I feel if I am selling though, I have to go by what a potential buyer feels on the matter. You can't dictate that to others when they are spending the money.

I am extremely careful about such things if selling because the buyer could be a person that feel such a shaft is simply warped. And they are not wrong. There are two schools of thought on the matter.

I have one shaft that is literally S shaped. It is really unusable except maybe for a bridge stick or for a kid to bang balls around and abuse, which is what I keep it for. When you roll that shaft the tip does not move, but I assure you it is S shaped.....and extremely so actually. It is unusable for any real shooting. I would never try to sell it or give it away. If I wanted to get rid of it I would toss it in the trash.

If you told your buyer the shaft is straight, with no qualifiers or mention of taper roll, then I would say the buyer has a point if there is a taper roll. Many will say it is frankly warped and wouldn't even buy it.


Just my take on the matter.
 
Chopdoc said:
The shaft could be s shaped or corkscrewed and the tip could stay on the table, so it isn't just aesthetics. Personally I am not so fussy about a little taper roll. Some people are. Some people feel there is no such thing and such a shaft is frankly called warped. I can't go by what I feel if I am selling though, I have to go by what a potential buyer feels on the matter. You can't dictate that to others when they are spending the money...
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^^^^ this ^^^^

Biggest issue with online sales of used items is diclosure. When selling an item online, you have to describe the item in great detail, as if the potential buyer actually had the item in thier hands to examine. The more details, the better. And in many cases, a lot of that is still open to interpretation by the buyer.

Sometimes you really have to 'dumb it down' when listing an item, as though the person buying has NO idea which end of a cue to shoot with. Take pictures of your sale item next to everyday objects that everyone is familiar with (money, a credit card, etc.), and overcommunicate these descriptions in your listings. "The shaft has a slight rise in it, but I cannot slide a credit card underneath it". "There is a small dent about 1" above the butt cap, about the size of Lincoln's head on a penny".
There are certain tolerances/variances that are allowed in a shaft that it can still be considered "straight" (perhaps a cuemaker here could elaborate further).

They may be correct that the shaft has a wobble, in that your own criteria for being straight may not match thiers. At the same time, it's possible that the purchaser is having 'buyers remorse', doesn't want the cue now, and is simply looking for a reason to return it.

Just curious, is the seller requesting a refund, or are they simply stating that the cue (in thier eyes) isn't straight ? I'd also ask him to define the 'wobble' using the afforementioned items (money, credit card).

I'd be curious to know how this turns out...
 
Mickey Qualls is bang on. It's about disclosure. Tell everything you can in the most descriptive way possible. The last time I sold a cue I felt like I wrote an encyclopedia on the damn thing.

Even then, there can be differences.

It is possible that it is buyer's remorse etc.

In general my policy is the customer is always right.....within reason. Obviously I don't want to let myself get scammed nor will I warranty a used item....I mean really.....but if I sell something I simply try to be honest and want the person to be happy with their purchase.

I use the idea of "informed consent" that we have in medicine. It's not about whether or not I told you something, it's about whether or not and how you understood it.

I am curious about how this turns out as well.
 
Cue Rolling 101

Roll the cue on a pool table with more light on the other side of the cue than behind you. Observe the variance of light underneath the cue. You will have to put your head close to the bed of the table to see this.

This process will show minute amounts of warp that will in no way affect play.
94.73% of cues have some degree of warp.:grin-square::grin-square: Wood moves.

Tell your buyer to wait for the cue to reacclimate to his humidity for at least two weeks. It may straighten out some or at least give him time to fall in love with how it plays.
 
If you are buying the shaft its wobble, if you are selling it, its taper roll.

;)

Think about it.

I always offer money back if someone is not happy. If either is not happy return and be happy.
Ken
 
What irks me is when I have to email a seller asking the weight of the cue. I mean Really? You didn't think to put the most basic information of all in your ad? And this happens often.

Also I was taught that you shouldn't go by the roll on a pool table, because the felt can easily effect it. You should use a flat level wood table and that rifle scoping a cue at eye level and rotating it is a better indicator of straightness, than rolling it. That's what I was told at an early age by one of the best players I knew anyway.
 
Ken_4fun said:
If you are buying the shaft its wobble, if you are selling it, its taper roll.

;)

Think about it.

I always offer money back if someone is not happy. If either is not happy return and be happy.
Ken
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Well said. I should be so laconic. :thumbup:
 
schmizz said:
What irks me is when I have to email a seller asking the weight of the cue. I mean Really? You didn't think to put the most basic information of all in your ad? And this happens often.

Also I was taught that you shouldn't go by the roll on a pool table, because the felt can easily effect it. You should use a flat level wood table and that rifle scoping a cue at eye level and rotating it is a better indicator of straightness, than rolling it. That's what I was told at an early age by one of the best players I knew anyway.
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I was taught not to roll a cue on a pool table as well....but I think that's a whole new argument.

I really prefer a nice granite counter top. Clean of course. Very flat with no cloth to obscure the matter and you can get eye level with it without rails in the way. :)
 
Ken_4fun said:
If you are buying the shaft its wobble, if you are selling it, its taper roll.

;)

Think about it.

I always offer money back if someone is not happy. If either is not happy return and be happy.
Ken
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That's what I was going to say haha. Two different words for the same thing. Just depends on which side you are on.
 
Loin said:
hi everybody. i am having some difficulty with someone who bought a cue from me on ebay. before listing the cue, i visually inspected the shaft and butt by sighting down the length and rotating and saw no curvature. i did the roll test flat on a pool table both together and separate and saw no problems. i have always judged the straightness of the shaft by whether or not the tip moves up and down when rolled and would consider that "wobble". the guy who bought the cue says that "the shaft does wobble but the tip does not leave the table". does anyone have any idea what he could be talking about? :confused:
thanks for any help.
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Perhaps you should have advertised it as the shaft does wobble but tip does not leave the table. Then the guy knows what he is buying.

I've only owned one cue without a shaft wobble, a old $10 Dufferin I got at a pawn shop. Rolls dead straight but I don't play with it, something about the pin in the shaft I don't like.
 
before listing the cue, i sighted down the shaft and rotated and did the table roll test and it appeared straight to me - no movement up and down. the guy also complained about things i clearly mentioned in the auction description - some dings on the butt and a spot where the clear coat was missing. there were pics that could be enlarged and clear coat is definitely intact. he actually told me that the cue had been put on a lathe and the clear coat taken off! ha! he asked for $15 refund and then he would give a good review. this was for a mcdermott that is $220 new and sold for $99.99 in the auction. the cue is in great playing condition - not a showpiece or collector. if it had any taper roll, i sure didn't notice it and i am rather picky about shaft condition. i had someone contact me after the auction ended who i believe understood the used condition of the cue and offered $115. i offered to give the buyer that person's ebay ID if he was interested in selling the cue - he did not request the ID. i told him i wasn't giving him any refund and he gave me negative feedback stating that the cue had 20+ dings and had cue lathe scratches. the guy was a last second bidder. i'm sure he didn't read the description and thought that he would get some money back by threatening bad feedback. i guess i'll buy a higher resolution camera so i can post about 30 pics that show every single inch of the cue and i will describe every shaft as warped beyond belief. ;)
 
Loin said:
before listing the cue, i sighted down the shaft and rotated and did the table roll test and it appeared straight to me - no movement up and down. the guy also complained about things i clearly mentioned in the auction description - some dings on the butt and a spot where the clear coat was missing. there were pics that could be enlarged and clear coat is definitely intact. he actually told me that the cue had been put on a lathe and the clear coat taken off! ha! he asked for $15 refund and then he would give a good review. this was for a mcdermott that is $220 new and sold for $99.99 in the auction. the cue is in great playing condition - not a showpiece or collector. if it had any taper roll, i sure didn't notice it and i am rather picky about shaft condition. i had someone contact me after the auction ended who i believe understood the used condition of the cue and offered $115. i offered to give the buyer that person's ebay ID if he was interested in selling the cue - he did not request the ID. i told him i wasn't giving him any refund and he gave me negative feedback stating that the cue had 20+ dings and had cue lathe scratches. the guy was a last second bidder. i'm sure he didn't read the description and thought that he would get some money back by threatening bad feedback. i guess i'll buy a higher resolution camera so i can post about 30 pics that show every single inch of the cue and i will describe every shaft as warped beyond belief. ;)
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Can you link the auction page here ? That might aid members here in helping to determine if the winning bidder has the proverbial leg to stand on.
As far as the feedback he left... 20+ dings and lathe scratches... Does he mention the 'wobble', the issue he was originally concerned about ?

The whole thing sounds like 'feedback extortion'. I'd contact ebay support. And don't delete any of the emails between you and the seller.
 
here's the item number: 260929471118

let me know what you think. thanks.
 
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