shaft tapering and taper bars

[D-Rock]

can shaft tapering ultimately be done without the use of taper bars? If not, what does the taper bar consist of and how does it work? I'm currently getting ready to build my own taig-based lathe, although I won't be tapering shafts anytime soon, I would like to know if their is a procedure for doing it without the bar, if not, I would like to start planning on building this option into my lathe in the future. just don't really know anything about it.

Thanks

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

wood+sandpaper=being able to accomplish many things..........

 

[SK Custom Cues]

The answer to your question is yes, but how is that going to truly help you know about shaft tapering? Since you really don't know anything about it, why don't you get educated first?

I make cues without using taper bars. You can also turn butts and shafts a number of different ways. Cue making is very versatile.

How can you build cues or even a cue lathe and not know anything about shaft tapering? what kind of lathe you need or making cues for that matter?

I'll say it again.. you don't need a lathe, you need knowledge first. After you have acquired enough knowledge, you will have the answers you need and be much more clear as to which direction you wish to go instead of wasting time with these questions. You aren't the first one to attempt to build his own version of the HT Lathe, and you won't be the last.

Buy this first and save yourself the confusion. The best thing you can do is acquire more knowledge (about cue making)..... even though you are already knowledgeable...... trust me my friend, I am here to help you.... I was in your position not too long ago.... I am not your enemy..... I am here to slap you in the face and tell you how it is..... it may hurt, but you will be better for it.

just because I haven't run a lathe does not mean I'm not knowledgeable. I have run just about every other type of equipment out there, including 8 years in the oilfield where one wrong slip can cost you your life. I appreciate your concern, i'll survive.

can shaft tapering ultimately be done without the use of taper bars? If not, what does the taper bar consist of and how does it work? I'm currently getting ready to build my own taig-based lathe, although I won't be tapering shafts anytime soon, I would like to know if their is a procedure for doing it without the bar, if not, I would like to start planning on building this option into my lathe in the future. just don't really know anything about it.

Thanks

 

[qbilder]

Get the taper bars. It's the only way you'll get exactly consistent shaft tapers over & over & over, unless you get into CNC. A simple lathe with a taper bar is all you need to taper shafts.

 

[cueman]

On my earlier Videos I showed how to dial in the numbers by hand to taper shafts. On my later videos I skipped it as it seemed like a waste of video as almost no one wanted to stand over their machine dialing in the numbers by hand. So the answer is, Yes, you can place some tape behind your lathe and mark how many thousandths of an inch you want to dial out as your router is cutting the shaft. It is not all that hard, but you do have to stand over the lathe the whole time turning your cross-slide dial.

 

[LGSM3]

i will agree with SK that your quest for knowledge should be #1 priority but i think the real knowledge your after will come at the expense of your trial and error. you can only read so many books or watch dvds....will really start to sink in once you just do it, imo!

 

[1pRoscoe]

The answer to your question is yes, but how is that going to truly help you know about shaft tapering? Since you really don't know anything about it, why don't you get educated first?

I make cues without using taper bars. You can also turn butts and shafts a number of different ways. Cue making is very versatile.

How can you build cues or even a cue lathe and not know anything about shaft tapering? what kind of lathe you need or making cues for that matter?

I'll say it again.. you don't need a lathe, you need knowledge first. After you have acquired enough knowledge, you will have the answers you need and be much more clear as to which direction you wish to go instead of wasting time with these questions. You aren't the first one to attempt to build his own version of the HT Lathe, and you won't be the last.

Buy this first and save yourself the confusion. The best thing you can do is acquire more knowledge (about cue making)..... even though you are already knowledgeable...... trust me my friend, I am here to help you.... I was in your position not too long ago.... I am not your enemy..... I am here to slap you in the face and tell you how it is..... it may hurt, but you will be better for it.

Psst.... your ego is showing...

 

[D-Rock]

this is part of my "quest for knowlege". I have gotten other sources also but they just show the process of cutting down shafts on machines already designed to cut down shafts. I want to know more about the machine that does it so I can build it. Building things myself, to me, educates more then just buying the machine to do the work. You learn the machine and how it functions. You can repair it yourself, and learn to make the tooling and things needed for jigs and fixtures for future. I come here to get some insight before i dive in. The best way to learn is to make mistakes and learn from them.

 

[scdiveteam]

Taper Bar Yes!!!

Hi,

If you want to make a consistent product it is very important that you have complete repeatability in your shaft taper as this defines your cue. I believe that the shaft taper is the most important factor in defining the hit of your cue.

I use a saw machine with my parabolic taper to make 10 cuts on my shafts over a long period of time with the cuts getting lighter and lighter progressively. With my motors controller adjusted speed and feed rates, I can finish sand my final product in about 60 seconds before final sealing and burnishing.

The more time you take in the final sanding process, the less consistent your shaft geometry will be. Can't do that without a taper bar or CNC and many cuts over time relieving stress in the wood fibers.

Good Luck,

Rick Geschrey

 

[KNcues]

this is part of my "quest for knowlege". I have gotten other sources also but they just show the process of cutting down shafts on machines already designed to cut down shafts. I want to know more about the machine that does it so I can build it. Building things myself, to me, educates more then just buying the machine to do the work. You learn the machine and how it functions. You can repair it yourself, and learn to make the tooling and things needed for jigs and fixtures for future. I come here to get some insight before i dive in. The best way to learn is to make mistakes and learn from them.

I mostly just lurk this forum and don't really get involved but I like the way you think. Turning shafts is not rocket science and can be done on a homemade machine with good results at very little cost. I built my dedicated shaft machine out of an old wood lathe for less than $70.00 (not including the router). The spindle and feed motors were the biggest cost of the whole thing. The rest was out of stuff I had laying around the shop. I built it as a prototype but it worked so well I've been using it for over 3 years with no problems and it works great.

Basically you need to be able to turn (spin) the shaft at around 150 rpm and feed the router at about an inch and a half per minute. That will give you a smooth cut that needs almost no sanding. You'll need to develop your own taper bar. I used a length of Alder for the taper bar which is easy to shape as you're in the development process. A high quality bearing rolls up the taper bar which supports the router. Gravity is a wonderful thing. No springs necessary. Use the end of the router bit to do the cutting to prevent chatter.

Good Luck with your project.

 

[SK Custom Cues]

Pssst. Once again, you are not helping.

Psst.... your ego is showing...

 

[1pRoscoe]

Pssst. Once again, you are not helping.

Just to put things into perspective.... do you skydive? I know there is some good dropzones spread out around OK....

Anyways, when I first started jumping, it was a rush.. Even at jump #25 I remember riding up to altitude thinking, "what the hell am I doing?!?" You get past that... but are ALWAYS aware of what's going on...

So you've got the old timers, or "well experienced" guys that have anywhere from 1500-10000 jumps and they are the ones that you listen to. They don't run around telling all the new guys what they need to do, but they are the great mentors. Of course you know that winds can be a big factor in that area (I learned to skydive at Skydive Dallas in Whitewright) and the rule was, "When you see the older guys on the ground, you join them" - meaning the wind gusts are too drastic to be safe, however a lot of the "skygods" (usually have 100-300 jumps) are going up regardless because they are badass and they rock.

Now the "skygods" are the ones that usually run around telling you what you should be doing, butt into conversations to tell people how great they are, and esentially ensure you know how much they know - whether you want to or not.

I've noticed in my time here on az, you don't see many "old timers", but the "skygods" run rampant...

-Ross
just a customer, but knows a lot of "old timers" in this industry.... hears more from skygods, though...

 

[DaveK]

I've noticed in my time here on az, you don't see many "old timers", but the "skygods" run rampant...

Just be glad they don't run amuck (amok) :wink:

Of course the pot sometimes calls the kettle black wrt "helpful" posts :

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=162733&highlight=hammer

Dave

 

[SK Custom Cues]

Ok, u got me. At least don't compare me to roscoe.. :shocked:

 

[1pRoscoe]

I don't see how what you're saying is helping this thread at all. You have a bad habit of pissing people off and you get your kicks out of going around and waiting for someone to pounce on.

My intention was to help the OP which is what you should be doing, instead of using up space in this thread to insult me because you don't like my post. But, you already knew that, and you just have to find something to entertain your boredom with. Why don't you take up cue making to fill that time and see how easy it is?

There's something that just ain't right with you man. You make up a whole thread about cuemaker's ethics and don't even have your facts straight, and you rub a great deal of people the wrong way. Now, you have crossed my path, and will probably try to ruin my reputation because you think I am egotistical, or maybe don't make my own points? You get Arrowcrusher banned, and piss of Leon Sly to no end....... where does it end?

The truth is, it ain't none of your business what other people do. What is your business is what goes on in your own life. So stay out of mine.

I am into cuemaking, you'll soon see...

Yes, my facts are straight. Leon knows it. Others know it, too...

As for you, I made a post similar to what DaveK showed you did and now I'm the bad guy... LOL

I've just noticed a few months ago you're talking about you just built your first cue and now you're talking down to others who are asking for things as well and you come off as condescending to them. I don't get it. Didn't you just get one of your first basic cuemaking tools from a guy in FL?

But you got me, there's always something wrong with me. I don't care about your reputation, and from what I've noticed you really haven't built one yet.

I just call it like I see it.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I mostly just lurk this forum and don't really get involved but I like the way you think. Turning shafts is not rocket science and can be done on a homemade machine with good results at very little cost. I built my dedicated shaft machine out of an old wood lathe for less than $70.00 (not including the router). The spindle and feed motors were the biggest cost of the whole thing. The rest was out of stuff I had laying around the shop. I built it as a prototype but it worked so well I've been using it for over 3 years with no problems and it works great.

Basically you need to be able to turn (spin) the shaft at around 150 rpm and feed the router at about an inch and a half per minute. That will give you a smooth cut that needs almost no sanding. You'll need to develop your own taper bar. I used a length of Alder for the taper bar which is easy to shape as you're in the development process. A high quality bearing rolls up the taper bar which supports the router. Gravity is a wonderful thing. No springs necessary. Use the end of the router bit to do the cutting to prevent chatter.

Good Luck with your project.

20 minutes to cut a 30" shaft?

 

[KNcues]

20 minutes to cut a 30" shaft?

This is exactly why I don't post to this forum. There always has to be a smart a$$ remarks. I guess most of you guys must make several cues per day and time is of the essence. I don't make several cues per day and I do agree that 20 minutes is slow, but who cares. I can still make shafts faster than cues. Turn the machine on and let it run. When it's done it stops. It's not like I have stand there and watch it.

Oh cool, another new guy to knock around. It must be your lucky day :smile:

 

[MVPCues]

This is exactly why I don't post to this forum. There always has to be a smart a$$ remarks. I guess most of you guys must make several cues per day and time is of the essence. I don't make several cues per day and I do agree that 20 minutes is slow, but who cares. I can still make shafts faster than cues. Turn the machine on and let it run. When it's done it stops. It's not like I have stand there and watch it.

Oh cool, another new guy to knock around. It must be your lucky day :smile:

Expressing shock is hardly the same as knocking you around.

Kelly

 

[Sheldon]

This is exactly why I don't post to this forum. There always has to be a smart a$$ remarks. I guess most of you guys must make several cues per day and time is of the essence. I don't make several cues per day and I do agree that 20 minutes is slow, but who cares. I can still make shafts faster than cues. Turn the machine on and let it run. When it's done it stops. It's not like I have stand there and watch it.

Oh cool, another new guy to knock around. It must be your lucky day :smile:

If you're really that thin-skinned, you truly should refrain from ever posting anything.
20 minutes to cut a shaft is just fine, but when it can be done in 3 with the same results, why not consider it? How much longer do you think your router and lathe motors/bearings/etc. will last?
New rule: If you take every little comment personally, DON'T POST. 9 times out of ten, the deterioration of these types of threads are due to people taking offense when they shouldn't.

 

[KNcues]

You guys are right. Maybe I was a little thin skinned and took it too personal. Sorry to all.

In the end let's hope the op got the info he was looking for and it's helpful to him.