Shaft weights - PET PEEVE

[Shawn Armstrong]

I have a pet peeve when it comes to people posting cue shaft weights, or talking about shaft weights in general. Everyone LOVES shafts that weigh over 4 ounces, and seem to think this is a selling feature, and somehow proves good wood. If you look at two cues, and one is a wood to wood thread, and the other is a piloted stainless steel joint, I am going to bet that the piloted stainless steel jointed cues will have a heavier shaft. Know why? There's a brass insert in the shaft. Standard brass inserts weigh .4 ounces. I have had a few of the larger inserts that weigh as much as .6 ounces. So, let's say you had a shaft on a cue that weighed 3.8 ounces that was a 3/8-10 wood to wood thread. That same shaft on a Schon or other SS jointed cue would weigh 4.2-4.4 ounces.

Just some food for thought. Don't buy into the fact that a heavier shaft means it's better wood. It just means that there is a thicker taper, or a brass insert.

BTW, one of the best shafts I ever made for someone came from a 100+ year old house cue. I made the shaft for Jim Wych. Stiff taper, 28" long. Dried weight of the shaft was 3.2 ounces. It played stiff, and had a beautiful pitch.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Im one of them...

I have a pet peeve when it comes to people posting cue shaft weights, or talking about shaft weights in general. Everyone LOVES shafts that weigh over 4 ounces, and seem to think this is a selling feature, and somehow proves good wood. If you look at two cues, and one is a wood to wood thread, and the other is a piloted stainless steel joint, I am going to bet that the piloted stainless steel jointed cues will have a heavier shaft. Know why? There's a brass insert in the shaft. Standard brass inserts weigh .4 ounces. I have had a few of the larger inserts that weigh as much as .6 ounces. So, let's say you had a shaft on a cue that weighed 3.8 ounces that was a 3/8-10 wood to wood thread. That same shaft on a Schon or other SS jointed cue would weigh 4.2-4.4 ounces.

Just some food for thought. Don't buy into the fact that a heavier shaft means it's better wood. It just means that there is a thicker taper, or a brass insert.

BTW, one of the best shafts I ever made for someone came from a 100+ year old house cue. I made the shaft for Jim Wych. Stiff taper, 28" long. Dried weight of the shaft was 3.2 ounces. It played stiff, and had a beautiful pitch.

I hear what you are saying. But given the choice between two shafts with EXACT same thread joints and Ill give you odds that the heaver one will be a better shaft. Not always, but usually.

I have a JF Southwest, it came with (2) 3.2 ounce shafts, I had a 4.0 ounce shaft made for it by Laurie and the boys. To me, it has a world of difference.

To me weight is a big part, but only a part. I like to see the thread per inch, taper ect.

I wish you the best, your friend in pool,

Ken

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I hear what you are saying. But given the choice between two shafts with EXACT same thread joints and Ill give you odds that the heaver one will be a better shaft. Not always, but usually.

I have a JF Southwest, it came with (2) 3.2 ounce shafts, I had a 4.0 ounce shaft made for it by Laurie and the boys. To me, it has a world of difference.

To me weight is a big part, but only a part. I like to see the thread per inch, taper ect.

I wish you the best, your friend in pool,

Ken

BUT, was it better because the shaft was heavier, or because it made the cue more forward balanced? Cue balance is often overlooked by most players. You may love the 4 ounce shaft more because of how it plays and feels - may have all to do with the fact the balance is now farther forward.

 

[mullyman]

BUT, was it better because the shaft was heavier, or because it made the cue more forward balanced? Cue balance is often overlooked by most players. You may love the 4 ounce shaft more because of how it plays and feels - may have all to do with the fact the balance is now farther forward.

This is so true. One thing that drives me nuts when trying a cue is when it feels as if all the weight is in the butt. That doesn't necessarily mean the butt is heavy as much as where the balance point of the cue is.
MULLY

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

This is so true. One thing that drives me nuts when trying a cue is when it feels as if all the weight is in the butt. That doesn't necessarily mean the butt is heavy as much as where the balance point of the cue is.
MULLY

I have a Jacoby cue that I love/hate. I love the cue when it has the 4.6 ounce Jacoby shaft on it. I hate it when it has the 3.7 ounce LD shaft on it. I have played with the cue at the same weight with each shaft by changing the weight screw. The cue plays better at 19.5 ounces with the heavier shaft than it does with the LD shaft and extra weight in the butt. Balance isn't everything, but it is definitely a lot.

 

[ridewiththewind]

A question was asked elsewhere, what those felt where, in order of preference, the most important attributes to a shaft: color, weight, tone.

My choice was tone, weight, and color. If you can find two shafts with identical or very similar tone, then they are very likely to play better then two shafts of similar weight....because the tone is what helps to transmit the feedback, not the weight. Although often, shafts that are similarly weighted can have similar tones...it's not always the case.

Color was the least important to me. Color cannot be used to judge the quality of the shaft, IMHO, as it is a common practice among some makers to bleach their shaftwood to achieve that white color that has been so popular in the past. Personally, I actually prefer darker looking shafts myself.

Lisa

 

[TripXQ]

shaft weights

A couple of extra heavy clearcoat layers can add 0.1-0.2 ounces to the shaft not to mention a coat or two of wood sealer or dippings in Nelsonite or Resolute. Ever wondered how they change the tonal quality or the weight of the wood? If they go into the wood grain or fill pores or displace water in the wood's cells, they become an integral part of the material's composition and change the physical characteristics.
Not necessarily for the good. Just some food for thought.
Tom Gedris, Triple Cross Cues

 

[joeboxer]

your pm box is full.

it was a hustler with a regular maple shaft 12.5 mm, phenolic joint rings, tight radial pin, 57 incher. dam i loved that cue, and i hated losing it.
joe

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

your pm box is full.

it was a hustler with a regular maple shaft 12.5 mm, phenolic joint rings, tight radial pin, 57 incher. dam i loved that cue, and i hated losing it.
joe

Sounds like one of mine. As far as I know, I am the only Armstrong making cues in Canada. I use only two pin configurations - big pin radial or 5/16-14, so it sounds like one of mine. Time frame is right, too. I made a bunch of these. What type of wood in the butt?

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

your pm box is full.

it was a hustler with a regular maple shaft 12.5 mm, phenolic joint rings, tight radial pin, 57 incher. dam i loved that cue, and i hated losing it.
joe

mailbox is cleared - feel free to PM me

 

[kingwang]

Why are heavier shafts thought of as higher quality? Denser, higher quality shaftwood?

I play with a Z shaft which is light, so this kinda confuses me

 

[Fatboy]

BTW, one of the best shafts I ever made for someone came from a 100+ year old house cue. I made the shaft for Jim Wych. Stiff taper, 28" long. Dried weight of the shaft was 3.2 ounces. It played stiff, and had a beautiful pitch.

I constantly preach this "old wood" IS BETTER PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fatboy]

Color was the least important to me. Color cannot be used to judge the quality of the shaft, IMHO, as it is a common practice among some makers to bleach their shaftwood to achieve that white color that has been so popular in the past. Personally, I actually prefer darker looking shafts myself.

Lisa

White shafts suck!!!!!! old yellow ones is where all the action is, those who havent experienced it just dont get it, its also something that takes time to learn the difference beteween the 2. You have to have a few years to really understand it, like wine tasting, you dont learn the subtle differences overnight.

 

[cigardave]

I constantly preach this "old wood" IS BETTER PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Glad to hear that... as I'm gettin' pretty close to 60.

 

[ridewiththewind]

White shafts suck!!!!!! old yellow ones is where all the action is, those who havent experienced it just dont get it, its also something that takes time to learn the difference beteween the 2. You have to have a few years to really understand it, like wine tasting, you dont learn the subtle differences overnight.

Yeah...I loves me a dark shaft!! :joyful:

 

[manwon]

I have a pet peeve when it comes to people posting cue shaft weights, or talking about shaft weights in general. Everyone LOVES shafts that weigh over 4 ounces, and seem to think this is a selling feature, and somehow proves good wood. If you look at two cues, and one is a wood to wood thread, and the other is a piloted stainless steel joint, I am going to bet that the piloted stainless steel jointed cues will have a heavier shaft. Know why? There's a brass insert in the shaft. Standard brass inserts weigh .4 ounces. I have had a few of the larger inserts that weigh as much as .6 ounces. So, let's say you had a shaft on a cue that weighed 3.8 ounces that was a 3/8-10 wood to wood thread. That same shaft on a Schon or other SS jointed cue would weigh 4.2-4.4 ounces.

Just some food for thought. Don't buy into the fact that a heavier shaft means it's better wood. It just means that there is a thicker taper, or a brass insert.

BTW, one of the best shafts I ever made for someone came from a 100+ year old house cue. I made the shaft for Jim Wych. Stiff taper, 28" long. Dried weight of the shaft was 3.2 ounces. It played stiff, and had a beautiful pitch.

I have a pet peeve when it comes to people posting cue shaft weights, or talking about shaft weights in general. Everyone LOVES shafts that weigh over 4 ounces, and seem to think this is a selling feature, and somehow proves good wood. If you look at two cues, and one is a wood to wood thread, and the other is a piloted stainless steel joint, I am going to bet that the piloted stainless steel jointed cues will have a heavier shaft. Know why? There's a brass insert in the shaft. Standard brass inserts weigh .4 ounces. I have had a few of the larger inserts that weigh as much as .6 ounces. So, let's say you had a shaft on a cue that weighed 3.8 ounces that was a 3/8-10 wood to wood thread. That same shaft on a Schon or other SS jointed cue would weigh 4.2-4.4 ounces.

I totally agree with you Shawn, and while weight was not a factor years ago, a great deal of store is put in it now. For me personally, I like to use a finished turned shaft dowel that weighs 3.7 oz as a base. To my experience this will leave a finished shaft with a Pro-taper weighing between 4.0 or 4.3 depending upon the insert. My biggest concern with weight is making sure that cues built with two shafts have weights that also match so that the cues weight is eactly the same.