Shane and Straight pool?

[DogsPlayingPool]

I think a 14.1 TAR match between a practiced Shane and Alex would have the potential to be the biggest seller in the series between these two yet.

I'll tune into a 9/10 ball PPV if I happen to have the free time to watch it. Us straight pool lovers would make the time.

 

[14-1StraightMan]

Thumbs Up

Sean, very well stated. You ROCK.....

 

[sjm]

5. "It didn't take Archer years of practice to get to the point where he was running 100's. I believe after just a few months he ran 150 and out in a tournament."

Reply: Actually, it did take Johnny a while to really get in the flow of playing 14.1. Johnny is well-known to practice straight pool in his spare time. Don't forget, one of his bestest friends was Nick Varner, a straight pool legend himself. I recall a very old interview where Johnny credits Nick for much of his straight pool development. It wasn't a case of "just a few months" before he ran 150 and out in a tournament (I'm presuming you're talking about the 1995 Maine Event?). Johnny had been playing the game and under the tutelage of Nick for at least a year before entering that tournament.

I believe that this is in error, and that the poster suggesting that it was just a few months before Johnny was running 100's is correct.

To my recollection, Archer's 150 and out came at the 1994 Cleveland all-around, an event that must still be counted among Johnny's greatest feats. To nobody's surprise, he won the 9-ball event. After all, he'd already won a World 9-ball championship. He then went on to win the 10-ball event. When he won the straight pool event, however, it turned a lot of heads. I remember when Johnny first told me of his feat in Cleveland. He was proudest of winning the straight pool event. This was very, very early in Johnny's career and very possibly prior to Nick's tutelage.

 

[AtLarge]

I believe that this is in error, and that the poster suggesting that it was just a few months before Johnny was running 100's is correct.

To my recollection, Archer's 150 and out came at the 1994 Cleveland all-around, an event that must still be counted among Johnny's greatest feats. To nobody's surprise, he won the 9-ball event. After all, he'd already won a World 9-ball championship. He then went on to win the 10-ball event. When he won the straight pool event, however, it turned a lot of heads. I remember when Johnny first told me of his feat in Cleveland. He was proudest of winning the straight pool event. This was very, very early in Johnny's career and very possibly prior to Nick's tutelage.

I think you're right, Stu, although I didn't remember the date of the Cleveland event. During one of the recent Inside Pool streams, J.R. Calvert talked about this event and Johnny being a neophyte at 14.1 at that time. So J.R., who apparently was pretty knowledgeable about 14.1, gave Johnny some 14.1 instruction prior to the event. And the results were as you described. If I recall correctly, Johnny even continued after the 150 and out and made it to 200.

Another example of a rotation-games player doing well as a neophyte 14.1 player, is Marlon Manalo. He won the 2005 New Jersey Straight Pool Championship. Reputedly, that was the first time Marlon had played 14.1. That event ran for a number of years and attracted many big-name 14.1 players.

 

[The Chinchilla]

You guys are acting like it would take Mozart a long time to write some decent music. The truth is, these guys aren't like us. Rationalize it all you want, but I bet shane could put a 100 together after a couple weeks, maybe less, on big pockets. Anyway, I guess maybe it's just all a difference of opinion.

I remember the Johnny thing. My mentor at the time, a 14.1 player, barged into the pool room and was going crazy... "that bastard archer ran 150 and and out and he's hardly played any straight pool." My take on this however is you never know how much these guys have practiced a game. People want to act like they never have played, but nobody knows but them.

 

[sfleinen]

I believe that this is in error, and that the poster suggesting that it was just a few months before Johnny was running 100's is correct.

To my recollection, Archer's 150 and out came at the 1994 Cleveland all-around, an event that must still be counted among Johnny's greatest feats. To nobody's surprise, he won the 9-ball event. After all, he'd already won a World 9-ball championship. He then went on to win the 10-ball event. When he won the straight pool event, however, it turned a lot of heads. I remember when Johnny first told me of his feat in Cleveland. He was proudest of winning the straight pool event. This was very, very early in Johnny's career and very possibly prior to Nick's tutelage.

I think you're right, Stu, although I didn't remember the date of the Cleveland event. During one of the recent Inside Pool streams, J.R. Calvert talked about this event and Johnny being a neophyte at 14.1 at that time. So J.R., who apparently was pretty knowledgeable about 14.1, gave Johnny some 14.1 instruction prior to the event. And the results were as you described. If I recall correctly, Johnny even continued after the 150 and out and made it to 200.

Another example of a rotation-games player doing well as a neophyte 14.1 player, is Marlon Manalo. He won the 2005 New Jersey Straight Pool Championship. Reputedly, that was the first time Marlon had played 14.1. That event ran for a number of years and attracted many big-name 14.1 players.

Stu, AtLarge:

I just saw this, and I thank you for the correction/insight. I'd forgotten about the 1994 Cleveland event, and had suspected that BasementDweller was referring to the 1995 Maine Event, where, by that time, Johnny had already been under Nick Varner's wing for a good while. And I agree, J.R. Calvert is indeed a very knowledgeable player and commentator, and I enjoy it when he's in the box commentating on a match. The fact that J.R. was able to impart some knowledge that such a profound impact on Johnny's success in that 1994 Cleveland event, speaks volumes for not only Johnny (i.e. the quick-learner thing), but J.R. as well (i.e. getting to the meat of the matter and imparting stuff that had such a quick impact on Johnny's understanding of the game).

About Marlon Manalo, though. Marlon is a snooker player from the Philippines, and proved his mettle at most pattern play games, including snooker and 8-ball, before arriving to the U.S. in 2005. By that time, he was already strong in pattern-play games. So while he surprised many by winning the 2005 NJ 14.1 straight pool championship (mostly because, "being from the Philippines," everyone assumed he was a rotation player), those that followed him or were familiar with his background weren't that surprised.

Thanks for the posts and insight!
-Sean

 

[BasementDweller]

Stu, AtLarge:

I just saw this, and I thank you for the correction/insight. I'd forgotten about the 1994 Cleveland event, and had suspected that BasementDweller was referring to the 1995 Maine Event, where, by that time, Johnny had already been under Nick Varner's wing for a good while. (Johnny scored a 150-and-out in the 1995 Maine Event as well, although it wasn't on a table that Accu-Stats was filming.) And I agree, J.R. Calvert is indeed a very knowledgeable player and commentator, and I enjoy it when he's in the box commentating on a match. The fact that J.R. was able to impart some knowledge that such a profound impact on Johnny's success in that 1994 Cleveland event, speaks volumes for not only Johnny (i.e. the quick-learner thing), but J.R. as well (i.e. getting to the meat of the matter and imparting stuff that had such a quick impact on Johnny's understanding of the game).

About Marlon Manalo, though. Marlon is a snooker player from the Philippines, and proved his mettle at most pattern play games, including snooker and 8-ball, before arriving to the U.S. in 2005. By that time, he was already strong in pattern-play games. So while he surprised many by winning the 2005 NJ 14.1 straight pool championship (mostly because, "being from the Philippines," everyone assumed he was a rotation player), those that followed him or were familiar with his background weren't that surprised.

Thanks for the posts and insight!
-Sean

I wasn't really referring to any one event in particular. I just recalled hearing the story about JA somewhere along the way. I've also heard similiar stories about Efren completing high runs without spending much time practicing the game. These stories usually include him banking a bunch of balls and spinning the cue ball all over the place.

I still stand behind my earlier post. I just don't think that 14.1 is as challenging as most people think when we are talking about world class pool players (not good nine-ballers).

When 14.1 is played the way some of the greats used to play it I can be really impressed. I think of Dallas West just gently opening up a rack and knocking a few balls out of the rack here and there. Clearing out the clusters and maintaining 100% control of the cue ball AND ALL THE OBJECT BALLS. This is beautiful to watch. However, it isn't always necessary. The world class players that I'm referring to can get away with just controlling the cue ball AND SOME OBJECT BALLS and still manage some great runs.

I agree with The Chincilla when he stated that a little bit of knowledge can go a long way when it is paired with world class execution. I think that's the bottom line. I will take world class potting skills & cue ball control along with minimal 14.1 knowledge over average potting skills & cue ball control paired with infinite 14.1 knowledge any day of the week.

 

[The Chinchilla]

I wasn't really referring to any one event in particular. I just recalled hearing the story about JA somewhere along the way. I've also heard similiar stories about Efren completing high runs without spending much time practicing the game. These stories usually include him banking a bunch of balls and spinning the cue ball all over the place.

I still stand behind my earlier post. I just don't think that 14.1 is as challenging as most people think when we are talking about world class pool players (not good nine-ballers).

When 14.1 is played the way some of the greats used to play it I can be really impressed. I think of Dallas West just gently opening up a rack and knocking a few balls out of the rack here and there. Clearing out the clusters and maintaining 100% control of the cue ball AND ALL THE OBJECT BALLS. This is beautiful to watch. However, it isn't always necessary. The world class players that I'm referring to can get away with just controlling the cue ball AND SOME OBJECT BALLS and still manage some great runs.

I agree with The Chincilla when he stated that a little bit of knowledge can go a long way when it is paired with world class execution. I think that's the bottom line. I will take world class potting skills & cue ball control along with minimal 14.1 knowledge over average potting skills & cue ball control paired with infinite 14.1 knowledge any day of the week.

I have only one 14.1 video of efren, at the maine event i believe. diliberto in the booth, and god i wish i had the patience to cut this shot out and post it, but the gist was there were 2 balls left on the table... danny was talking about all this stuff he could do..... then comes efren, shoots a ball in the side or something, billards the only ball on the table, and is now a foot away from this ball with a perfect angle to go into the stack.

dilibertos reply.... "ive been playing 40 years and i didnt even see that shot, and it was so simple too." that single situation just says so much to me. pool is about instincts and talent. i totally agree with you.

 

[AtLarge]

Stu, AtLarge: ...About Marlon Manalo, though. Marlon is a snooker player from the Philippines, and proved his mettle at most pattern play games, including snooker and 8-ball, before arriving to the U.S. in 2005. By that time, he was already strong in pattern-play games. So while he surprised many by winning the 2005 NJ 14.1 straight pool championship (mostly because, "being from the Philippines," everyone assumed he was a rotation player), those that followed him or were familiar with his background weren't that surprised.

Thanks for the posts and insight!
-Sean

Sean -- I'm just catching up with this thread. Thanks for correcting me about Manalo's background. Still, I think it was pretty amazing that he beat a bunch of highly skilled 14.1 veterans.