Shane Has Won World Titles

[ineedaspot]

the only data you need is that it's well known that Shane will play any swinging dick on the planet in a longer race or ahead set and none will play him.

That proves pretty much nothing. A lot of European players don't even gamble. And, not being privy to what negotiations among players and backers have taken place, I don't even know if what you're saying is true.

Based on the record of matches that have actually been played, there's not enough data to support the conclusion that Shane is the best player in the world. He might be. He might not be. What we need is an actual pool tour with meaningful rankings.

 

[leto1776]

Sure, they count for something, but still not enough data to be a meaningful measure of who the best is.


Yeah, everyone wants more money. That doesn't mean the AZ money list is a good measure of who the top pool player in the world is.



I have no idea how they select tournaments, but it obviously covers the US primarily. Ko didn't even play in most of the tournaments Shane cashed in, neither did a lot of Asian players. I also don't know how Ko spends his time in Taiwan, but I have a hard time believing that he only cashed seven times all year and that four of those cashes were during the two weeks he spent in the US. If that's true, then there are way more monster players in Taiwan that I could ever imagine.

The money list only goes by what the tournament directors/promoters themselves input. Many of the overseas promotoers probably input very little. Why would they? As much as the users of this forum like to talk this site up, the Internet is a big place, these are busy people, and they probably just don't see AZB as being that important. I remember a well regarded poster mentioning that Yu Ram Cha won $40k in a Chinese tournament last year. No mention of it at all on the money list, and that's a huge figure in pool, so the AZB money list is a horrible indicator of much of anything.

 

[JB Cases]

That proves pretty much nothing. A lot of European players don't even gamble. And, not being privy to what negotiations among players and backers have taken place, I don't even know if what you're saying is true.

Based on the record of matches that have actually been played, there's not enough data to support the conclusion that Shane is the best player in the world. He might be. He might not be. What we need is an actual pool tour with meaningful rankings.

I think we are having several conversations here. I, for one, am not suggesting Shane is the best player in the world.

But he is the number one money earner. He owns real estate investments, part of a pool room, and lives a good life. He has practically unlimited backing for just about any money match he wants to play, runs from no player, and as far as I know is willing to step in the box with any player on earth at the games he feels most confident in.

Whether he is or is not the "best" player in the world he is certainly one of the most successful if not the most successful.

In addition he has plenty of world class hardware on his shelf. No WC's yet but FOUR US Open titles make up for it.

What does Shane think of all the discussion?

He is fishing and living his life away from the table while us schmucks waste time arguing over which pro is the "best".

 

[ineedaspot]

I think we are having several conversations here. I, for one, am not suggesting Shane is the best player in the world.

Yes, we are. Corvette was the one suggesting that, and I was responding to him.

But he is the number one money earner.

That might be true, depending on how much money is made in tournaments overseas that don't show up on the AZ list, as well as sponsorships, etc.

He owns real estate investments, part of a pool room, and lives a good life. He has practically unlimited backing for just about any money match he wants to play, runs from no player, and as far as I know is willing to step in the box with any player on earth at the games he feels most confident in.

Whether he is or is not the "best" player in the world he is certainly one of the most successful if not the most successful.

In addition he has plenty of world class hardware on his shelf. No WC's yet but FOUR US Open titles make up for it.

All this is true. He is successful and a great player.

What does Shane think of all the discussion?

He is fishing and living his life away from the table while us schmucks waste time arguing over which pro is the "best".

Speak for yourself. You might be a schmuck, but I'm a pool fan. I like discussing who the best player in the world is. This is the kind of thing that sports fans do. I don't care about Shane's real estate investments, I care about his pool game.

Shane is probably happy that we are doing it. If as many people argued about Shane vs Dennis/Ko as they did Messi vs Ronaldo, then he would be fishing from his 200 foot yacht.

 

[JB Cases]

Yes, we are. Corvette was the one suggesting that, and I was responding to him.


That might be true, depending on how much money is made in tournaments overseas that don't show up on the AZ list, as well as sponsorships, etc.


All this is true. He is successful and a great player.


Speak for yourself. You might be a schmuck, but I'm a pool fan. I like discussing who the best player in the world is. This is the kind of thing that sports fans do. I don't care about Shane's real estate investments, I care about his pool game.

Shane is probably happy that we are doing it. If as many people argued about Shane vs Dennis/Ko as they did Messi vs Ronaldo, then he would be fishing from his 200 foot yacht.

schmuck as in bumbling amateurs - not meant in a derogatory way. And if we were REAL fans then yes we would be out there growing pool so that they could fish from a 200ft yacht.

But when I suggested that we amateurs spend .25cts extra per league night so that there could be a million dollar tour......I was roundly chastised for suggesting that "fans" subsidize professionals. Because like you know fans in other sports don't spend a shitload of money doing just that for those sport's stars.

 

[JB Cases]

Sure, they count for something, but still not enough data to be a meaningful measure of who the best is.


Yeah, everyone wants more money. That doesn't mean the AZ money list is a good measure of who the top pool player in the world is.



I have no idea how they select tournaments, but it obviously covers the US primarily. Ko didn't even play in most of the tournaments Shane cashed in, neither did a lot of Asian players. I also don't know how Ko spends his time in Taiwan, but I have a hard time believing that he only cashed seven times all year and that four of those cashes were during the two weeks he spent in the US. If that's true, then there are way more monster players in Taiwan that I could ever imagine.

There aren't a lot of tournaments to play in and there are a lot of monster players. One of the "cashes" was the chalenge match against Shane for which there were only two spots, Shane cashed as well, taking "second" in that event. ;-)

The Asian players aren't barred from playing in the USA. Many of them come over and do just that. Wang Can came over this year and played a lot. Ko played at Hard Times in an event. if they did come over they would certainly do well because they are that good. And if Shane played over there all the time he would end up finishing high a lot as well because he is that good.

I personally think it's easier for Asian players to adapt to Simonis and Championship cloth than it is for western players to adapt to Andy and the other brands used in Asia.

Kelly Fisher was having a hard time and I advised her to get the cloth and put it on her table and she did. Once she did that she started beating the ten ball ghost on the cloth used over there and then she won the China Open and many other events in Asia. Kelly was even ranked number one in China over all the great Chinese players when they had a fledgling women's tour in China. All because she trained on the cloth and was thus able to go into the events without having to adjust to conditions.

I really do think that Shane and other male players would be benefit from having tables outfitted with the brands of cloth used. People rarely talk about this but I think it's big to be 100% comfortable with the playing surface.

 

[jay helfert]

Not that it affects the point of your argument, but a few factual corrections are needed here.

Shane got a bye in the first round, so he won 7 matches, not 8, and one of them was a race to 13 rather than 11. His overall record in games was 79-52, for a game-winning percentage of 60%.

Dennis played 10 matches, winning 8 races to 11 and losing 1 race to 11 and 1 race to 13. His overall record in games was 103-58, for a game-winning percentage of 64%. [And against all his opponents not named Shane, he won 72% of his games!]

Thanks for this information. I forgot that Shane drew one of the two Byes (Mika got the other one). For me the bottom line is that the cream rises to the top no matter what the format is. Reason being these are the players who respond best to pressure. If it was a Race to Five, you would still see the same players getting there at the end. The Mosconi Cup is proof of that.

 

[jay helfert]

Pure trolling. To even put SVB in the same sentence as Potts is utterly laughable. SVB is a third tier cueist compared to the top snooker/english pool guys. Great breaker, but not in the same ballpark as a player. High time you lot understood this.

Did you just say that Shane is third tier compared to the British players? I beg to differ with you. I don't see any of them dominating in Great Britain like Shane does here. And he has just as many strong pool players to compete against (or more) than they have snooker or english pool players over there.

To call Shane third tier at anything shows a complete bias and serious lack of credibility. In the future it will be hard for me to give credence to any of your posts for making such an outlandish statement. Shane is unquestionably one of the most talented pool players on planet Earth, top tier in every respect! By the way he finished tied for 5th in both World Championships this year, a better result overall than anyone else.

 

[ineedaspot]

schmuck as in bumbling amateurs - not meant in a derogatory way. And if we were REAL fans then yes we would be out there growing pool so that they could fish from a 200ft yacht.

But when I suggested that we amateurs spend .25cts extra per league night so that there could be a million dollar tour......I was roundly chastised for suggesting that "fans" subsidize professionals. Because like you know fans in other sports don't spend a shitload of money doing just that for those sport's stars.

Fair enough, I can admit to being a bumbling amateur on the pool table. As a fan, I'd like to see a big organized tour, I'd buy tickets and watch the matches on TV or streams. In fact, I already do that. I don't know what needs to be done to get more people to into pool as a spectator sport. Hopefully someone will figure it out.

 

[actionplayer]

Did you just say that Shane is third tier compared to the British players? I beg to differ with you. I don't see any of them dominating in Great Britain like Shane does here. And he has just as many strong pool players to compete against (or more) than they have snooker or english pool players over there.

To call Shane third tier at anything shows a complete bias and serious lack of credibility. In the future it will be hard for me to give credence to any of your posts for making such an outlandish statement. Shane is unquestionably one of the most talented pool players on planet Earth, top tier in every respect! By the way he finished tied for 5th in both World Championships this year, a better result overall than anyone else.

agreed.

what is so hard to understand? SVB is phenomenal player
the best American player and one of the best players in the world
is he the best no, is their a true best? id say no, nobody has dominated like efren strickalnd varner did or more recently mika in 98is and aplletin 10.

all this svb would destroy everybody is nonsense, alex already beat him in this apparent svb magical 100 race and ko pin yi beat him playing half speed at csi to 21

could svb beat them if they played again sure, or lose again

 

[strokin'myshaft]

Just a little correction here Jay H., Chang Yu Long and Biado have better overall record than Shane as far as both championships are concerned.

...By the way he finished tied for 5th in both World Championships this year, a better result overall than anyone else.

 

[sjm]

agreed.

what is so hard to understand? SVB is phenomenal player
the best American player and one of the best players in the world
is he the best no, is their a true best? id say no, nobody has dominated like efren strickalnd varner did or more recently mika in 98is and aplletin 10.

all this svb would destroy everybody is nonsense, alex already beat him in this apparent svb magical 100 race and ko pin yi beat him playing half speed at csi to 21

could svb beat them if they played again sure, or lose again

Alex, in his present form, would have no chance. He might need over 20 on the wire right now for a fair match in a 10-ball race to 100, even though he is one of the few with any experience in matches of this length.

 

[actionplayer]

Alex, in his present form, would have no chance. He might need over 20 on the wire right now for a fair match in a 10-ball race to 100, even though he is one of the few with any experience in matches of this length.

im not talking about present form, but alex beat svb in this apparent equalizer fo talent in a race to 100

ko pin yi beat svb also to 21

difference is nobody is going round saying alex or ko are the best players to walk the earth unlike the svb groupies , that is what is frustrating

svb is great great player no doubt is he the best in the world NO, will he win a world championship? absolutely he should. has he? NO

is his accomplishments well some scarred by the rack artist issue slightly but he still shoots great

 

[wincardona]

From my perspective Shane is the worlds best player. His commitment to excellence coupled with his outstanding work ethic has clearly given him the edge over any other player. Shane has shown me unrelenting pursuit to be the best, his cue ball control is superb and his decision making at the table is excellent. He has the strongest "zone speed" of all the players in the world today, unquestionably. The only chink in his armor is at times he loses focus when things go awry, but not often enough to be overly concerned.

There is no other player I enjoy watching more than Shane when in the "zone" Shane's top speed is poetry in motion and a notch over the rest.

"Boom goes the dynamite"

Bill Incardona

 

[wincardona]

From my perspective Shane is the worlds best player. His commitment to excellence coupled with his outstanding work ethic has clearly given him the edge over any other player. Shane has shown me unrelenting pursuit to be the best, his cue ball control is superb and his decision making at the table is excellent. He has the strongest "zone speed" of all the players in the world today, unquestionably. The only chink in his armor is at times he loses focus when things go awry, but not often enough to be overly concerned.

There is no other player I enjoy watching more than Shane when in the "zone" Shane's top speed is poetry in motion and a notch over the rest.

"Boom goes the dynamite"

Bill Incardona

Accu-stats will be streaming from Edison NJ Nov. 6th through the 9th "The Make It Happen 8Ball Championship" There will be six players competing for the title.

Alex Pagulayan
Earl Strickland
Mika Immonem
Francisco Bustamante
Darren Appleton
Shane VanBoening

This will be a real test for all the players and I expect VanBoening to fair well in this ..star studded field. Appleton, regarded as the worlds strongest 8ball player will be tested again and will have the opportunity to avenge the loss suffered by the hands of the "lion" Alex Pagulayan, in the last Make It Happen 8Ball Championship. Of course any of the other players in the field can win, that's what makes this tournament a must see tournament.

Accu stats online. Nov. 6th through the 9th.:thumbup:

Bill Incardona

 

[sjm]

Accu-stats will be streaming from Edison NJ Nov. 6th through the 9th "The Make It Happen 8Ball Championship" There will be six players competing for the title.

Alex Pagulayan
Earl Strickland
Mika Immonem
Francisco Bustamante
Darren Appleton
Shane VanBoening

This will be a real test for all the players and I expect VanBoening to fair well in this ..star studded field. Appleton, regarded as the worlds strongest 8ball player will be tested again and will have the opportunity to avenge the loss suffered by the hands of the "lion" Alex Pagulayan, in the last Make It Happen 8Ball Championship. Of course any of the other players in the field can win, that's what makes this tournament a must see tournament.

Accu stats online. Nov. 6th through the 9th.:thumbup:

Bill Incardona

I'll be there, Billy, hope to see you.

Stu

 

[Ron Swanson]

Did you just say that Shane is third tier compared to the British players? I beg to differ with you. I don't see any of them dominating in Great Britain like Shane does here. And he has just as many strong pool players to compete against (or more) than they have snooker or english pool players over there.

To call Shane third tier at anything shows a complete bias and serious lack of credibility. In the future it will be hard for me to give credence to any of your posts for making such an outlandish statement. Shane is unquestionably one of the most talented pool players on planet Earth, top tier in every respect! By the way he finished tied for 5th in both World Championships this year, a better result overall than anyone else.

Yes...and no. I actually said third tier cueist, not player. I dont consider any American pool player to be a top tier cueist, mainly because it isn't strictly necessary to be one.

Watch the Potts SVB chinese 8 ball mauling to see the difference in technical ability between the two players. So to call SVB the greatest pool player on earth, and a better player than Potts, is simply laughable. Make the game difficult and SVB melts. Make it a breaking contest on easy playing tables and he thrives. Question is, does that determine who is the better player?

 

[mjantti]

Accu-stats will be streaming from Edison NJ Nov. 6th through the 9th "The Make It Happen 8Ball Championship" There will be six players competing for the title.

Alex Pagulayan
Earl Strickland
Mika Immonem
Francisco Bustamante
Darren Appleton
Shane VanBoening

This will be a real test for all the players and I expect VanBoening to fair well in this ..star studded field. Appleton, regarded as the worlds strongest 8ball player will be tested again and will have the opportunity to avenge the loss suffered by the hands of the "lion" Alex Pagulayan, in the last Make It Happen 8Ball Championship. Of course any of the other players in the field can win, that's what makes this tournament a must see tournament.

Accu stats online. Nov. 6th through the 9th.:thumbup:

Bill Incardona

The field couldn't be any tougher, going to be a great event.

After every major tournament SVB plays in, we get a similar thread how great SVB is. I don't think there is a #1 player in the world, depends on the day and the microlevel rolls players are getting if every top player is shooting above .900. But I get the feeling that SVB should already win a WPA title, not just because he deserves one but just to get rid of these stupid threads

This is my favourite quote so far from JB Cases :grin:
"He is fishing and living his life away from the table while us schmucks waste time arguing over which pro is the "best"."

 

[BeiberLvr]

Yes...and no. I actually said third tier cueist, not player. I dont consider any American pool player to be a top tier cueist, mainly because it isn't strictly necessary to be one.

Watch the Potts SVB chinese 8 ball mauling to see the difference in technical ability between the two players. So to call SVB the greatest pool player on earth, and a better player than Potts, is simply laughable. Make the game difficult and SVB melts. Make it a breaking contest on easy playing tables and he thrives. Question is, does that determine who is the better player?

Actually there's a match online in that same tournament where SVB mauls some Chinese guy.

Tough tables supposedly, and he makes it look easy getting out from pretty much everywhere.

 

[arps]

Just a little correction here Jay H., Chang Yu Long and Biado have better overall record than Shane as far as both championships are concerned.

LOL. because both these guys kicked Shane out of the tournament. :smile: