Shane said.....

[Mr. Bond]

First, thanks to Justin for asking the somewhat trivial questions that I posted for the TAR podcast with Efren and Shane. (Although there actually was a method for my madness)

...Efren's favorite American food is " baked potato and steak" lol ....too funny. But hey, at least he didn't pick something like Burger King!

I also asked if Shane thought there should be a men's player association....and he said No...not really needed given the state of things. (Not exact quote)

Now don't get me wrong, as a bad ass pool player, I dig Shane and his talent just as much as the next guy but I tend to disagree with his answer. And no, I'm not bashing him or questioning his integrity etc etc...this is not about Shane at all.

The newly refurbished wpba is a prime example of why I disagree with his answer...

The WPBA is a functioning organized body, that represents and looks after the players bests interests and their reputation to the public.

The WPBA now has a great website.( which is very instrumental in the role of PR and information dissemination, as well as marketing.)

They now have a logical and useful way for members, fans, and supporters of any kind to not only save money on certain things they shop for, but in the process it also generates proceeds directly for the WPBA.

At their current event they have also included a clinic for kids as well as a charitable event in association with their tourney. This is golden in the realm of public relations and, simply put, it speaks volumes about their integrity as people.

They have lots of things going for them but perhaps most important of all is the simple fact that they now own and control the content they produce.... No streaming or PPV battles, no issues with who distributes what and when, no overlapping events, and in the future this will be huge when it comes to sponsorships and reliable viewership.

What do the men have ?

* cricket chirp*


I completely understand Shanes point, but for Pete's sake (sorry Pete) the womens association is nothing short of impressive at this point no matter how many events they currently have going on....even if there were none.....a good house MUST have a good foundation to remain standing.

I believe the men do indeed need a functional and credible association to regain respect and progress.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

In order to have a players association, there's needs to be a governing body of pool. I don't see one, do you? So his response is perfectly acceptable.

 

[one stroke]

In order to have a players association, there's needs to be a governing body of pool. I don't see one, do you? So his response is perfectly acceptable.

And that's why pool is where it is and why it will stay where it is for the foreseeable future

United we stand divided we fall ,,, words to live by





1

 

[Mr. Bond]

In order to have a players association, there's needs to be a governing body of pool....

why?

and how can the wpba exist if, as you suggest, there is no governing body?

 

[sjm]

The WPBA is a business concern, not just a women's player's organization. Although facing some difficult times, it's an organization for which I have limitless respect. It has a defined membership and a defined and announced methodology for those wishing to be assured entry into all events. It, similarly, has a methodology enabling aspirants to qualify for individual events. Its events are not open but, instead, have a defined field size of 48. In short, it has structure.

WPBA management has always had the interests of all of its membership at heart. WPBA management can approach a venue sponsor and promise to deliver its defined contingent of professional woman players, and that's the benefit they've gotten over the years by having a relatively unified membership of very impressive ladies who represent themselves with both elegance and dignity. The WPBA will turn the corner one of these days because its members have stuck together.

By contrast, the ABP, the current men's player's organization, is not a business concern and it has not, to this point, earned the reputation of representing the interests of all of its members. It is not a business concern and is not, therefore, accountable to its membership in the truly conventional sense. It does not run any events and does not represent a concern having limited field events. To my knowledge, it has not created/produced its own events nor does it negotiate with venues to deliver its product to them in exchange for payments or added monies.

If the men were to form a business concern in which they become truly unified and responsible for and accountable to each other, that might be a good idea. On the other hand, the few entrepreneurs who continue to roll the dice on men's pool here in America are few and need take no special measures to ensure an elite field if the added money is even decent. What then, is the bargaining chip the men, even if unified, would hold?

Right now, men's pool consists of independent events, not a tour, and, in men's pool, the sport's vitality is driven by the producers/promoters and not by the players. That's "the state of things" to which Shane is referring, and I see this his way. A unified men's business concern in pool might be nice, but I see no particular need for a men's players association right now.

 

[Mr. Bond]

I agree with you sjm, except that I see no viable way to grow professional pool for men without one.

No need now- perhaps. But what about tomorrow, or next year, or the next year, when the current promoters give up trying, run out of money, or all die off?

And, as Mr. Shuffet kindly pointed out, what about the next generation of pros....who currently have no incentive to chose professional pool as a career? Do we, they, us, want pool to remain contained to the bar - room, with little to no respect from the general public? Or do we, they, us, want something better?

I do.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

why?

and how can the wpba exist if, as you suggest, there is no governing body?

So if the NFL were to cease existing tomorrow, the NFL Players Association would be meaningful how? A players association is used to leverage the governing body to not bad decisions that affect the players negatively.

So, can Shane go and join the WPBA? No he cannot. My statement stands.

And, as Mr. Shuffet kindly pointed out, what about the next generation of pros....who currently have no incentive to chose professional pool as a career? Do we, they, us, want pool to remain contained to the bar - room, with little to no respect from the general public? Or do we, they, us, want something better?

I do.

If we want something better, then either the BCA needs to go back to being a business instead of a trade organization, or a new company come and take the place they once had. Rules need to be enforced. These changes can't start with the players. they have to start with the suits.

 

[spanky79]

First, thanks to Justin for asking the somewhat trivial questions that I posted for the TAR podcast with Efren and Shane. (Although there actually was a method for my madness)

...Efren's favorite American food is " baked potato and steak" lol ....too funny. But hey, at least he didn't pick something like Burger King!

I also asked if Shane thought there should be a men's player association....and he said No...not really needed given the state of things. (Not exact quote)

Now don't get me wrong, as a bad ass pool player, I dig Shane and his talent just as much as the next guy but I tend to disagree with his answer. And no, I'm not bashing him or questioning his integrity etc etc...this is not about Shane at all.

The newly refurbished wpba is a prime example of why I disagree with his answer...

The WPBA is a functioning organized body, that represents and looks after the players bests interests and their reputation to the public.

The WPBA now has a great website.( which is very instrumental in the role of PR and information dissemination, as well as marketing.)

They now have a logical and useful way for members, fans, and supporters of any kind to not only save money on certain things they shop for, but in the process it also generates proceeds directly for the WPBA.

At their current event they have also included a clinic for kids as well as a charitable event in association with their tourney. This is golden in the realm of public relations and, simply put, it speaks volumes about their integrity as people.

They have lots of things going for them but perhaps most important of all is the simple fact that they now own and control the content they produce.... No streaming or PPV battles, no issues with who distributes what and when, no overlapping events, and in the future this will be huge when it comes to sponsorships and reliable viewership.

What do the men have ?

* cricket chirp*


I completely understand Shanes point, but for Pete's sake (sorry Pete) the womens association is nothing short of impressive at this point no matter how many events they currently have going on....even if there were none.....a good house MUST have a good foundation to remain standing.

I believe the men do indeed need a functional and credible association to regain respect and progress.

wpba is a joke too, 1 event, give me a break. again the top players want it all now and nothing later

 

[sjm]

And, as Mr. Shuffet kindly pointed out, what about the next generation of pros....who currently have no incentive to chose professional pool as a career? Do we, they, us, want pool to remain contained to the bar - room, with little to no respect from the general public? Or do we, they, us, want something better?

I do.

In men's pool, I think it's, to some extent, about trust, something that is sorely missing in American pool today: a) promoters don't trust the players to commit to participation and to present themselves professionally, b) players don't trust the promoters to pay them, c) players and promoters don't trust each other enough to work together to make new events succeed.

It's also about declining work ethic among male American pros. Only two Americans came in the top nine at the just completed Derby City 9-ball and Shane was the only American that cashed in the ten ball. To me, that's borderline embarrassing.

Only a few Americans today are truly dedicated male professionals who put in enough work to compete with the superstars of world pool. Jay Helfert, who splits time between Asia and America has often taken note of the glaring difference in work ethic between American and Asian pros on this very forum. Some would suggest that the declining work ethic of American professionals is a result rather than a cause of poor fortunes among American professionals, but in the end, it doesn't matter, because the fact remains that American pool players, as a group, are accomplishing less than ever competitively.

I believe that a return to competitive prominence (not to be confused with competitive superiority) for male America pros is fundamental to the health of the sport. Otherwise, we are in danger of finding ourselves living in a world in which all the really lucrative events are contested in either Europe or Asia, an eventuality to which we are already progressing. That's what makes young players like Landon Shuffet so very important. Along with Shane, the young players must reinvent and revitalize American pro pool, thereby turning it into a better product.

The younger players have had to be followers for too long, and it's time for them to be given the opportunity to lead, and, while improving the pro pool product, re-establish the winning partnership that once existed between players and promoters.

In short, it's not about relying on something better for the next generation of American male players but, instead, about building something better for them. Otherwise, few American males will choose pool as a career, and that's not the way any of us want it.

I'm optimistic, though, that pool will have a bright future in America once the next generation of players takes over.