Shane vs. Dennis Hatch

Voodoo Daddy said:
Who discredited anyone? This was a Shane vs Dennis thread...not a Terry vs Voodoo thread. Wu shmu is right...he one two majors and that is awesome for anyone any age BUT there are a number of one shot wonders, agreed? So I guess the next thread shoud be Wu vs Hatch? Greenleaf vs Caras? JimBo vs Wilson? oops, lol. Regardless of any of this, opinions are flying and no one will really EVER knows, will we?

Voodoo~~I drank 7-Up today, thus the un-Voodoo like post?:D
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The problem VooDoo, is Terry is going by what he heard and did not see it first hand. Dennis was not playing Major tournaments at that age he was on the road gambling. First time I ever saw Dennis about 20 years ago now... He comes into Hustlers, grabs a rack, throws all 15 balls out on the table, takes ball in hand and runs out in rotation, than again, than again, than again,... and than again. 5 times out of the gate, I was like what the f*** who the hell is he? Somebody told me. Later I was in the back of the room playing and it sounded like somebody had fired a 44 magnum, it startled me as I turned to see the cueball hopping in the center of the table... At 16 10 ball was Dennis' road game not 9 ball. He just won the Florida 10 ball tour down here and believe me, a BRUTAL FIELD! His last 3 race to 8 matches in 10 ball.. 2 five packs and a 4 pack!! beat manola 8-1 and Manola shiit the 7 ball in to win that game. Everybody on here was saying they did not know that dennis played liked that.. well that is what VooDoo and myself are trying to tell you at 16 he played the same way and I do not need somebody chiming in now with their 2 cents who wasn't there and never saw it!! Lock the doors, put up $ 10,000, rack up 10 ball, 12 ahead, and Dennis beats all the Americans.
 
Voodoo Daddy said:
Who discredited anyone? This was a Shane vs Dennis thread...not a Terry vs Voodoo thread. Wu shmu is right...he one two majors and that is awesome for anyone any age BUT there are a number of one shot wonders, agreed? So I guess the next thread shoud be Wu vs Hatch? Greenleaf vs Caras? JimBo vs Wilson? oops, lol. Regardless of any of this, opinions are flying and no one will really EVER knows, will we?

Voodoo~~I drank 7-Up today, thus the un-Voodoo like post?:D
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I don't know where to begin...:confused:

The "discredited" part, I thought the words "Blah Blah Blah" just in front of a murderers' row was....how to say this...ok... not showing proper credit to well established, all time legends with proven track records.

Where do you get the idea I am against you or tried hijacking the thread to a you vs me? My comments at first were in regards to someone saying Hatch may be the BEST EVER 16 yr old. I don't know everything, but I do know that those guys in my other thread had terrific, almost unbelievable talent and exploits. My point was don't forget them. In fact, that other post of mine could not have been written clearer - the point was those other guys are contenders for BEST EVER at 16.

Voodoo, how do you know that at age 17, Wu is a "one shot wonder"? What makes you think he's done? Just because he has won 2 world championships in 2 different games and he's not 18, where did his wheels fall off? And 2 world championships IS better than none.

The "next thread" idea...I do like that. Don't you think this is fun? Debating with other pool lovers about our great sport? Only real pool fans who know what we all do on this thread can even understand what we're even talking about. I think it's so cool to hear other opinions (even if they don't make sense :eek: )

Remember what Muhammad Ali said "I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong!" I got no quarrel with you...and I don't think ( let me go back and look at what you said)...ok...I don't think Mr. "Jimbob" has any beef with Mr "Wilson" :D This ain't about nothing except exchanging OPINIONS. We all have them. You disagree with mine on this. I think you got too much of something (7-Up???;)) flowing thru your brain.

And Voodoo, you are so right when you say "we'll never know for sure".
Since we DON'T know, tell the truth, isn't it fun to speculate with your pool buddies?

Tell you what....since I can't bet all the money in my pocket, how about this....I'll put up all my AZB V-cash (which I don't even know what it is and I'll never use) against a bag of air that you can collect at a place and time of your chosing that if you put up a poll (I don't know how to) of Dennis Hatch vs Chia Ching Wu and let's see wu, er um, I mean "who" gets the most votes? May the best guesser win :D

XOXOXO
Terry

PS-I'm happy today myself. I been pounding the Diet Cokes...
 
thebighurt said:
The problem VooDoo, is Terry is going by what he heard and did not see it first hand. Dennis was not playing Major tournaments at that age he was on the road gambling. First time I ever saw Dennis about 20 years ago now... He comes into Hustlers, grabs a rack, throws all 15 balls out on the table, takes ball in hand and runs out in rotation, than again, than again, than again,... and than again. 5 times out of the gate, I was like what the f*** who the hell is he? Somebody told me. Later I was in the back of the room playing and it sounded like somebody had fired a 44 magnum, it startled me as I turned to see the cueball hopping in the center of the table... At 16 10 ball was Dennis' road game not 9 ball. He just won the Florida 10 ball tour down here and believe me, a BRUTAL FIELD! His last 3 race to 8 matches in 10 ball.. 2 five packs and a 4 pack!! beat manola 8-1 and Manola shiit the 7 ball in to win that game. Everybody on here was saying they did not know that dennis played liked that.. well that is what VooDoo and myself are trying to tell you at 16 he played the same way and I do not need somebody chiming in now with their 2 cents who wasn't there and never saw it!! Lock the doors, put up $ 10,000, rack up 10 ball, 12 ahead, and Dennis beats all the Americans.
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Bighurt,
You're right. I never saw Dennis do what you described. Running 5 racks of 15 balls in ROTATION right out the gate...that's like what, 75 balls in 14.1. To run that many in rotation is like what, running 500 regular balls in 14.1? That is quite a feat. I don't know if Efren has ever ran that many in rotation in his whole life.
And I also don't think you ever saw the greatness that the other prodigeous players I named accomplished. Just because Dennis was great does not mean that nobody ELSE was just as great or even better.
BTW, I've only met Dennis Hatch once, at Valley Forge a few years back. Very strong player and nice to chat with also. Strong break is right! But I can't agree with what started all of this, that he may have been "the best 16 year old EVER." But like voodoo said "We'll never know for sure."
Your last proposition...I'm sure others will be chiming in. (Don't discount Corey Deuel in that scenario). But if DH is playing that strong, why not open it to players outside of America?
Thanks for your input on this thread. It got our juices flowing. I really like "dream match up" threads, and this one IS a great thread.
Take care
Terry
 
smashmouth said:
5 consecutive racks in rotation?

gotta love internet forums
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smash,
You read my mind. In fact, I was outside cutting the grass and I just plain stopped to come back here to ask one more itsy, bitsy teeny weenie question....
IF he or (anyone else) was able to run 75 balls IN ROTATION, then why wasn't he in tournaments, winning first place, getting sponsors, appearing on Johnny Carson, in a SportsCenter commercial and on the cover of, forget Billiards Digest, Time Magazine as it's Man of the, err, 16 year old of the year"?:confused:
 
Getnbzy said:
Have to lean towards SVB. When i was in vegas last month i saw orcollo and svb getting ready to play.
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Missed this match, when and where was it? I did watch Shane playing one of the ladies at Cue Club, he looked dang near near unbeatable. Then there was much discussion of a Orcollo/Rodney Morris match but never happened.

If you mean the final match at the nationals I will have to say Shane looked the perfect description of "snake bit". Maybe he needs more time in the wars, but he is one heck of a player.
 
powderburner said:
Missed this match, when and where was it? I did watch Shane playing one of the ladies at Cue Club, he looked dang near near unbeatable. Then there was much discussion of a Orcollo/Rodney Morris match but never happened.

If you mean the final match at the nationals I will have to say Shane looked the perfect description of "snake bit". Maybe he needs more time in the wars, but he is one heck of a player.
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They played two races to 15 eight ball (during the week of the BCA and before their match in the tournment), SVB won both sets and $1800. More time in the wars? The next week Shane beat Dennis in the 10 ball world Championships on his way to winning the event.
 
smashmouth said:
5 consecutive racks in rotation?

gotta love internet forums
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As usual like through every grape vine the words get twisted. First off i said " he MIGHT have been the best 16 year old ever" and as I said dennis was not playing tournaments then, he was gambling. Greg did not want to knock his action back then with tournament wins.

Now for smashmouth.. You are implying that I said he broke and ran 5 racks of rotation.. what I said and read carefully.. he threw out 15 balls, took ball in hand and ran 5 racks in order. With ball in hand it is not the same thing but for 16 or any age it is and was awesome..

and last smashmouth.. you are right, I do love internet forums.. When I tell people what was witnessed and some ASSHOLE chimes questioning and changind what was siad.. you are right I LOVE THESE FORUMS
 
By the way with what you just said.. you just proved you don't have a f***ing clue as to what VooDoo and myself were talking about. You just proved my original statement when I asked VooDoo if anybody on this forum knew how good Dennis played when he was 16.. the answer is no. By the way Corey at 16 could not of held Dennis' jock when dennis was 16. I split sets with Corey when he was 16 and I wouldn't have f***ed with dennis when he was 16. As far as why didn't Greg have him playing tournaments, Dennis played Mizerak in the final of big touranment in Miami about 20 years ago when the Miz was still playing great.. and Dennis beat him 9-1!! Oh by the way.. Dennis was 16!! Greg said after that, the tournaments wrer going to draw too much heat on dennis and that was that.
 
thebighurt said:
By the way with what you just said.. you just proved you don't have a f***ing clue as to what VooDoo and myself were talking about. You just proved my original statement when I asked VooDoo if anybody on this forum knew how good Dennis played when he was 16.. the answer is no. By the way Corey at 16 could not of held Dennis' jock when dennis was 16. I split sets with Corey when he was 16 and I wouldn't have f***ed with dennis when he was 16. As far as why didn't Greg have him playing tournaments, Dennis played Mizerak in the final of big touranment in Miami about 20 years ago when the Miz was still playing great.. and Dennis beat him 9-1!! Oh by the way.. Dennis was 16!! Greg said after that, the tournaments wrer going to draw too much heat on dennis and that was that.
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Its all the truth <minus the F-bomb cause I never use profanity :rolleyes: > We were lucky to see that Hurt, just as lucky to have Toby, 3 Fingered Ronnie, Big Bob, Monster, Johnny D, Danny D and a cast of others. Real lucky...
 
Terry Ardeno said:
smash,
You read my mind. In fact, I was outside cutting the grass and I just plain stopped to come back here to ask one more itsy, bitsy teeny weenie question....
IF he or (anyone else) was able to run 75 balls IN ROTATION, then why wasn't he in tournaments, winning first place, getting sponsors, appearing on Johnny Carson, in a SportsCenter commercial and on the cover of, forget Billiards Digest, Time Magazine as it's Man of the, err, 16 year old of the year"?:confused:
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it simply amazes me when people like you, terry ardeno, who supposedly knows a little about the american pool players heritage, doesn't stop and think about what ALL american pool players are taught. that is go and make all the MONEY that you can in america gambling before you ever play in tournaments. remember the subject is dennis at 16. i watched corey,archer,shannon d., little tony,stevie moore, etc...etc... play for a few years before YOU ever saw them entered in any tournament. so quit assuming that winning world titles is the only way to measure greatness,when in fact,ifyou grew up in my generation(70s and 80s) it was much more about flying under the radar and winning the money. cell phones(camera) and computers have ruined that part of the american pool scene and if it wasn't for tourneys like the DCC that at least keeps a little bit of that action still alive, i thinkl you would see a lot more of ex champs like mccready, shannon d., etc.. retired and fed up with pool period. if all these guys had to play for was a tourney title every month that might pay 5000 to 20000 for FIRST then they all would starve.
 
thebighurt,

I apologize, I often write tongue in cheek on these forums and from time to time my intent is not often clear. I'm sorry.

I should have simply called you out for the liar that you are to begin with, although it probably really isn't neccesary given the absurdity of your tale, in any case, one last time for the record, you are indeed a liar, and a pathetic one at that.

My apologies once again.

I'm done with you
 
smashmouth said:
thebighurt,

I apologize, I often write tongue in cheek on these forums and from time to time my intent is not often clear. I'm sorry.

I should have simply called you out for the liar that you are to begin with, although it probably really isn't neccesary given the absurdity of your tale, in any case, one last time for the record, you are indeed a liar, and a pathetic one at that.

My apologies once again.

I'm done with you
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Seeing how VooDoo just said how it is all true... that just proves what a complete a**hole you are. You are the dumbest s.o.b. I have come across on this forum. You know what the best part about your statement is stupid *****.. what benefit would I get to lie about what Dennis Hatch did.. it is not like I am saying I did it you moron!!
 
thebighurt said:
Seeing how VooDoo just said how it is all true... that just proves what a complete a**hole you are. You are the dumbest s.o.b. I have come across on this forum. You know what the best part about your statement is stupid *****.. what benefit would I get to lie about what Dennis Hatch did.. it is not like I am saying I did it you moron!!
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^^ You're such a F*#KING LIAR!!!!!!...................................................
































You said "The One" was the dumbest s.o.b you ever came across on the forums!! ;)
 
thoffen said:
Throw in Thomas Engert and you got a throw-down.
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I liked Hatch until you threw in Engert. Now I have to go with The Lean Machine. He and Souquet are my favourite players. There's nothing like precision German engineering!
 
By the way fellas, often times relatively unknown players from back East would come out West to check out the scene. They might play in a big tournament out here, knowing that the "suckers" from the South or Midwest would not be here to see them.

Along about 1988 to 1990, The Hatch motorhome showed up frequently in the parking lot at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA. I knew Greg and his brother Mark and had heard about Dennis from Danny, but had never seen him play. This was when the semi annual Hard Times $10,000 Added 9-Ball tournies were getting World Class fields. I mean EVERYBODY played in them, with one exception. For whatever reason, Sigel would not play here, even though Chuck offered him every possible inducement to play.

Every one of these tournaments had stellar 64 man fields, packed with a who's who of top players. Dennis gambled here with several players until he was burned out, and then on his second trip, his Dad put him into the big tourney. Dennis must have been all of 19 or 20 then. In the two torunaments he played in that I ran, he finished first and second, only losing to Jay Swanson in a Final match that was a real shoot out. I don't think either player missed an open shot! I think he beat Earl or Buddy in the finals of the other one! I know it came down to those three.

After watching him play back then, I put him the top echelon of ALL poolplayers. He had what I like to call "the big game", where he could break and run racks at any time. Other big game players were Earl, Swanee and Mark Tadd. And that's about it. Dennis could string racks with the best of them. To give you a better example, the hallowed Efren would have had NO chance playing Dennis 9-Ball (or Ten Ball) for money back then. Of course, he knew it too and artfully dodged that game.

I always liked Dennis. He was a likeable young man, but he had learned some devious ways and this became his undoing. I hope that he has truly straightened out his life and gotten back on track. He appears to have rededicated his life to playing pool, and I wish him the best.
 
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In a 10-ball matchup, I believe Shane can spot Dennis the nine for even action.
 
Out of curiousity...when talking about the best 16 year old of all time is that for all disciplines? If so I really don't see how Stephen Hendry wouldn't take that down...
 
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