Shane's racking "trick"

spartan said:
Niels Facebook post and other comments by players, etc
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152808387263872&id=316778628871

:D
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link.
Before closing his eyes for the night, Niels admitted that what HE THINKS Shane does with the rack is legal and within the rules and that if he (Niels) knew as much as HE THINKS Shane knows about racking, HE (NIELS) would do the same.

That's nice. I guess he just wanted to make an example of Shane or use Shane's match as an example of what goes on in every match.

Way to try and sully the image, talent and hard work of America's best player.

JoeyA
 
BJTyler said:
.. So are these "magic gaps" or something that only shane can see? It certainly does seem like sour grapes.
Click to expand...


I did not watch any streaming and I know nothing about the Shane`s racking in US Open,but I like to respond to your comment by giving this example.

Around two decades ago I was gambling with a Past US Open 9 ball champion. We were using Plastic Racks to rack the balls. I lost the lag and it was my turn to rack and his turn to break. I racked the balls and told him that I he needed to check the rack before he broke because I gave him a wicked rack intentionally. He checked the rack from various angles. . He said the rack is fine and I don`t see any problem. He broke the rack with full force and the cue ball flew of the rack like a missile, hit the wall and ended it`s journey by landing on the floor.

I was mischivous again when it was my turn to rack the balls and I warned him of my wicked rack. I was honest and told him that I cheated him with my mechanic skills. He inspected the rack with rack checking rituasl and said the rack was fine. He busted the rack and the cue ball flew of the rack like a missle and finally ended it`s journey and landed on the floor of the room. After that I never pulled that trick on him. He beat me 9-6.
The point I making is that my opponent, a past US Open champion, didnt find my rack to be a wicked rack but I only knew what I did to the rack.
 
here's what i was thinking. Niels is ranked #1 and Shane #2 in WPA rankings. Niels' overall points is 18,700, while Shane's is 15,120. the points given to Shane when he won last year was 4170. if he gets his 3rd straight US Open title, based on the point system, there is potential that SVB will "dethrone" Niels from his chair.
 
I'm in the camp of ppl who think both racking and breaking are a skill
Click to expand...

I've heard this argument before and it's ridiculous. Manipulating the rack is nothing more than CHEATING. Plan and simple. The argument that racking is a skill is the same thing as saying that scuffing a baseball is a skill and which ever pitcher does it the best has a well earned advantage.

I'm willing to bet that everyone of these players that says manipulating a rack is a skill is a cheating piece of chalk dust.

Here's the best proof of all that screwing with the rack is cheating....back in the old days the locals would take you out back and beat the sh*t out of you if they even suspected you were doing it.....enough said....
 
arps said:
here's what i was thinking. Niels is ranked #1 and Shane #2 in WPA rankings. Niels' overall points is 18,700, while Shane's is 15,120. the points given to Shane when he won last year was 4170. if he gets his 3rd straight US Open title, based on the point system, there is potential that SVB will "dethrone" Niels from his chair.
Click to expand...

Now, this is a very interesting tidbit. :groucho:
 
warriorpoet62 said:
I've heard this argument before and it's ridiculous. Manipulating the rack is nothing more than CHEATING. Plan and simple. The argument that racking is a skill is the same thing as saying that scuffing a baseball is a skill and which ever pitcher does it the best has a well earned advantage.

I'm willing to bet that everyone of these players that says manipulating a rack is a skill is a cheating piece of chalk dust.

Here's the best proof of all that screwing with the rack is cheating....back in the old days the locals would take you out back and beat the sh*t out of you if they even suspected you were doing it.....enough said....
Click to expand...
Right.....but having you play their horse on his "home table" where he knew every roll was perfectly fine. And its not just having the rack a certain way....its knowing how to hit the rack when it is sitting that way to get the balls to do what you want. This happened with opponent rack too...guys would check the gaps and change where they broke from. Is that cheating too? No. Its knowing everything you can about every aspect of the game.
 
More players and others on Facebook weighing in on Niels post. The number of comments is exploding :grin-square:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152808387263872&id=316778628871

Below are some comments:

Ed Culhane
Kind of bad to see this open up for all to see cause it does no good for the integrity of the game, but a lot of guys know these mechanics and know them well.. their sweat/time and hard work went into it but when it changes tangent lines then it's wrong. bottom lline. Patrick Fleming changed it up in challenge matches he ran and it went well. Incoming player has to push or force his opponent to push after the break. Push out after the break or American Rotation might cure all the bs

Matthew Lala
Niels Are you 100% sure it's a gap and he isn't just cinching the one ball closer to freeze it? Cuz it looks pretty clear he's rolling it towards the rack, not away from it. Unless you think that's just misdirection. It's pretty bold to accuse the player of cheating his way to 3 titles if you're not 100% positive.

Niels 'The Terminator' Feijen (Official)
Rolling the one on the racks means opening up balls behind it, try it yourself. Buy joe Tucker's DVDs. Not accusing Shane of anything, plus he's not the only one. He's playing by the allowed rules. I just don't like the rules. Opening/manipulating balls is not the way forward but allowed so hats off to him he knows more then most plus he's playing awesome. I just personally don't feel this is the way to go for 9ball tournament play.

Shaun Wilkie
Not matter what it going on, we has players shouldn't be allowed to touch the 1 ball at all.. It's called a chain reaction Matthew as the 1 ball connects to the rest of the rack below it.. The 1 ball freezes without a hand manipulation.. Remember the rack is resting against it also at the top of the rack..

Rex Hester
Niels, not disagreeing with you. Can you elaborate a little more how this is accomplished? So, that we would have a better understanding.

Niels 'The Terminator' Feijen (Official)
Too complicated. Buy joe Tucker's rack DVDs. Lot of info, too much for a post. Gaps create reduced speed on balls, which make them go in different directions then in a frozen rack. It's about chain reactions.

Darren Appleton
I like it when the worlds beat player speaks up well said pal


Scott Frost
Brutal shit... You can't do that playing Onepocket and I hate to see what the rotation game in America has become. Makes me sick!!! And a lot of top pros know this game is why I took the path to Onepocket years ago! Call me a liar or full of shit, but this game is broken!

Phil Davis
You think thats a good post, Steve Knoll? Lol he totally missed the point of Neil's post. He isn't saying Shane is doing anything wrong, and many times said that he wish he knew what Shane knows about the rack, and Shane does practice the rack and break for hours and hours. But to me that still doesn't make it fair. If you use the magic rack and rack the 9 on the spot, you have little if any of chance making the corner ball once, let alone 9/11. Being able to give yourself a good rack is important, giving yourself the rack you WANT to have, is the manipulative part. But in this level of the game I want to see the better player come out and not out break the guy instead. Like Neil's said, it isn't Shane's fault. It's totally allowed which makes it even more disgusting but the fact people don't understand is all of the old school players and promoters and even fans are still naive to this. This wasn't around when they were playing. It needs to be brought to their attention and the only way is for everyone to say something, or everyone to learn to do it too.

Scott MacDonald
I agree one hundred percent Niels. When it gets to the final day or even the final 16 there should be a NEUTRAL racker. I also agree a player should NEVER rack their own balls. Even at the local taverns you don't rack your own balls. Sardo rack of magic rack should be used for all racks. I thought the Magic Rack was solving these issues? Pocket Billiards still way way behind the times.


Shane VanBoening
Magic rack is neutral. I told Barry that the wooden rack gets old


Larry Phlegar
One Pocket is Boring, But any player moving the one ball to CHEAT is Like a Major League Baseball Player using STEROIDS to Hit Home Runs. I've Seen Many Players Doing it this week. I Now Call of You that Do This, CHEATERS. Put the fkn balls on the table tightly and Hit it Hard. Johnny Archer SIMPLY racked the balls and knocked the hell out of it and played the table. THATS HOW IT SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED. Shane if You Are Manipulating the Rack to Win, SHAME ON YOU, unless you guys doing this put on a clinic prior to the tournament and SHARE this Info with the rest of us that paid our HARD EARNED money to Compete

:grin-square:
 
spartan said:
More players and others on Facebook weighing in on Niels post. The number of comments is exploding :grin-square:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152808387263872&id=316778628871

Below are some comments:

Ed Culhane
Kind of bad to see this open up for all to see cause it does no good for the integrity of the game, but a lot of guys know these mechanics and know them well.. their sweat/time and hard work went into it but when it changes tangent lines then it's wrong. bottom lline. Patrick Fleming changed it up in challenge matches he ran and it went well. Incoming player has to push or force his opponent to push after the break. Push out after the break or American Rotation might cure all the bs

Matthew Lala
Niels Are you 100% sure it's a gap and he isn't just cinching the one ball closer to freeze it? Cuz it looks pretty clear he's rolling it towards the rack, not away from it. Unless you think that's just misdirection. It's pretty bold to accuse the player of cheating his way to 3 titles if you're not 100% positive.

Niels 'The Terminator' Feijen (Official)
Rolling the one on the racks means opening up balls behind it, try it yourself. Buy joe Tucker's DVDs. Not accusing Shane of anything, plus he's not the only one. He's playing by the allowed rules. I just don't like the rules. Opening/manipulating balls is not the way forward but allowed so hats off to him he knows more then most plus he's playing awesome. I just personally don't feel this is the way to go for 9ball tournament play.

Shaun Wilkie
Not matter what it going on, we has players shouldn't be allowed to touch the 1 ball at all.. It's called a chain reaction Matthew as the 1 ball connects to the rest of the rack below it.. The 1 ball freezes without a hand manipulation.. Remember the rack is resting against it also at the top of the rack..

Rex Hester
Niels, not disagreeing with you. Can you elaborate a little more how this is accomplished? So, that we would have a better understanding.

Niels 'The Terminator' Feijen (Official)
Too complicated. Buy joe Tucker's rack DVDs. Lot of info, too much for a post. Gaps create reduced speed on balls, which make them go in different directions then in a frozen rack. It's about chain reactions.

Darren Appleton
I like it when the worlds beat player speaks up well said pal


Scott Frost
Brutal shit... You can't do that playing Onepocket and I hate to see what the rotation game in America has become. Makes me sick!!! And a lot of top pros know this game is why I took the path to Onepocket years ago! Call me a liar or full of shit, but this game is broken!

Phil Davis
You think thats a good post, Steve Knoll? Lol he totally missed the point of Neil's post. He isn't saying Shane is doing anything wrong, and many times said that he wish he knew what Shane knows about the rack, and Shane does practice the rack and break for hours and hours. But to me that still doesn't make it fair. If you use the magic rack and rack the 9 on the spot, you have little if any of chance making the corner ball once, let alone 9/11. Being able to give yourself a good rack is important, giving yourself the rack you WANT to have, is the manipulative part. But in this level of the game I want to see the better player come out and not out break the guy instead. Like Neil's said, it isn't Shane's fault. It's totally allowed which makes it even more disgusting but the fact people don't understand is all of the old school players and promoters and even fans are still naive to this. This wasn't around when they were playing. It needs to be brought to their attention and the only way is for everyone to say something, or everyone to learn to do it too.

Scott MacDonald
I agree one hundred percent Niels. When it gets to the final day or even the final 16 there should be a NEUTRAL racker. I also agree a player should NEVER rack their own balls. Even at the local taverns you don't rack your own balls. Sardo rack of magic rack should be used for all racks. I thought the Magic Rack was solving these issues? Pocket Billiards still way way behind the times.


Shane VanBoening
Magic rack is neutral. I told Barry that the wooden rack gets old


Larry Phlegar
One Pocket is Boring, But any player moving the one ball to CHEAT is Like a Major League Baseball Player using STEROIDS to Hit Home Runs. I've Seen Many Players Doing it this week. I Now Call of You that Do This, CHEATERS. Put the fkn balls on the table tightly and Hit it Hard. Johnny Archer SIMPLY racked the balls and knocked the hell out of it and played the table. THATS HOW IT SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED. Shane if You Are Manipulating the Rack to Win, SHAME ON YOU, unless you guys doing this put on a clinic prior to the tournament and SHARE this Info with the rest of us that paid our HARD EARNED money to Compete

:grin-square:
Click to expand...

And there you have it. Man, that speaks volumes. Thanks for taking the time to share this. It really is eye-opening.
 
There's is no doubt that the magic rack needs to be used with the 9 on the spot. The format should not be changed to alternate break. One thing that's great about this tournament is the packages ran and the comebacks. There have been so many hill hill matches and I have to believe that if it was alternate break it would not be this way.
 
arps said:
here's what i was thinking. Niels is ranked #1 and Shane #2 in WPA rankings. Niels' overall points is 18,700, while Shane's is 15,120. the points given to Shane when he won last year was 4170. if he gets his 3rd straight US Open title, based on the point system, there is potential that SVB will "dethrone" Niels from his chair.
Click to expand...

Shane will still be bit short and remain #2
Niels is finished 17th which gives him 1370 WPA ranking points and if Shane finishes 1stm he gets 4170 points
So Niels revised points = 18700 points +1370=20070 points
Shane revised points =15120 +4170=19290 points
So Shane will be stll behind Niels by 780 points
If Shane gets 780 more points than Niels in year ending major, All Japan then he may surpass Niels and be #1
By and large , with limited number of major events now, winning W9B is sufficient to be #1 until next W9B winner takes over. Previous W9B Thorsten was #1 until Niels took over
:D
 
lukemindish said:
There's is no doubt that the magic rack needs to be used with the 9 on the spot. The format should not be changed to alternate break. One thing that's great about this tournament is the packages ran and the comebacks. There have been so many hill hill matches and I have to believe that if it was alternate break it would not be this way.
Click to expand...

i agree, magic/turtle rack and the 9-ball on the spot. i like alternating breaks though - you make sure that you runout your break, and steal your opponent's rack whenever given an opportunity.
 
spartan said:
Shane will still be bit short and remain #2
Niels is finished 17th which gives him 1370 WPA ranking points and if Shane finishes 1stm he gets 4170 points
So Niels revised points = 18700 points +1370=20070 points
Shane revised points =15120 +4170=19290 points
So Shane will be stll behind Niels by 780 points
If Shane gets 780 more points than Niels in year ending major, All Japan then he may surpass Niels and be #1
By and large , with limited number of major events now, winning W9B is sufficient to be #1 until next W9B winner takes over. Previous W9B Thorsten was #1 until Niels took over
:D
Click to expand...

right. right. my bad - i did not take note of Niels' accumulated points for this year's US Open.

to all: any news if Shane's participating in Japan Open?
 
Nobody but Shane practices break for five hours. Nobody but Shane spends one day
A week on nothing but breaking . Hello that's why nobody breaks better than him
 
warriorpoet62 said:
I've heard this argument before and it's ridiculous. Manipulating the rack is nothing more than CHEATING. Plan and simple. The argument that racking is a skill is the same thing as saying that scuffing a baseball is a skill and which ever pitcher does it the best has a well earned advantage.

I'm willing to bet that everyone of these players that says manipulating a rack is a skill is a cheating piece of chalk dust.

Here's the best proof of all that screwing with the rack is cheating....back in the old days the locals would take you out back and beat the sh*t out of you if they even suspected you were doing it.....enough said....
Click to expand...

How old were the days. Never heard of anyone getting beat up for racking.

And regardless of whether it is cheating or not it is still a skill.

I don't know how to do it and neither does Niels. :-)
 
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arps said:
here's what i was thinking. Niels is ranked #1 and Shane #2 in WPA rankings. Niels' overall points is 18,700, while Shane's is 15,120. the points given to Shane when he won last year was 4170. if he gets his 3rd straight US Open title, based on the point system, there is potential that SVB will "dethrone" Niels from his chair.
Click to expand...
Gee for a guy who never wins overseas how is Shane ranked #2?
 
StraightPoolIU said:
I prefer neutral racker, 1 on the spot, break from anywhere, 3 point rule, but the the truth is that sounds like sour grapes to me. They complain about Shane's "racking" when the 1 is on the spot so they change it to 9 on the spot. He still kicks ass so they complain more. How about the dude is just good and practices an important part of the game. No on second thought I'm sure none of that practice, good shooting or great safety play has anything to do with it. It has to be that he barely touches the 1 ball sometimes while he's racking. Give me a break dude.
Click to expand...

I have to quote this because it really sums up this entire argument.

They changed it to the nine on the spot just because people were making too many on the break, and now Shane is doing it, then its still wrong.

Niels is my second favorite player to watch but maybe he is just intimidated by the amount of hours shane puts into his game.

Remember, Shane had back to back 5th place finishes in those holy grail world champion tournaments playing Niels approved rules (Niels won in Qatar).

So don't try to say he is in the final 4 of US Open because of racking tricks. Get real.
 
It is really a joke when a handful of players can rig the rack and everyone else is struggling to make a ball on the break. This is a huge advantage, especially in winner break format. Why would a European player spend hours trying to figure out how to cheat the rack in order to compete in one tournament per year? Most tournaments are going to a template for the rack, as should the US Open.
 
If folks are wanting the rack to be changed in a way so the player breaking NOT make a ball on the break and run the rack to make it a more "fair" game, what is the difference in the player breaking and opening up the entire table and not pocketing a ball, then the incoming player runs out? I saw Orcollo checking the rack several times after Shane racked. Did he complain? Did he see how the balls were racked? Did he see the said "gaps" ? Did he learn and try to apply it to his own racking? Shane is on fire. There's a whole lot more to this game than "breaking"... GO Earl..... Well, he's out..... Go Shane.
 
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