Sharp points???

[Kato]

Can someone here tell me a few things....
1. What IS a sharp point?
2. How can you tell a CNC point from handmade or any other way, for that matter, by looking at the cue?
3. Can comparison pictures be posted showing the differences between the two?
4. I am trying to treat myself to a new, higher end cue. I currently have Joss, Cuetec, Players and McDermott and I would like to purchase something awesome, semi-handmade but it is becoming evident I do not know what I am looking at!
Thanks

 

[Quesports]

If memory serves.
Milled one piece veneers out if hard woods. Then all glued together and installed into the Forearm. Skip was awesome at it and consistent.

Thanks Michael Webb, I was hoping you would reply. You have shown you expertise for many years and always given an honest opinion and advice to anyone that asked!

 

[9ball5032]

I was questioning Evan Clark at the BCA approx. 2016 and asked him why he didn't make sharp points on a cue. He responded, "It's a sloppy way to make a cue."

I was thinking if everything was epoxied real good then it should be pretty strong.

 

[chuckg]

If memory serves.
Milled one piece veneers out of hard woods. Then all glued together and installed into the Forearm. Skip was awesome at it and consistent.

I know zilch about cue making but all my favs over the years have been made with long ,sharp points with veneers. I never cared for cues with a cloverleaf or some other embellishment at the end of the point. I always wondered if something was being hiddden. To each his own,cues are such a personal taste

 

[hang-the-9]

Of course it wouldn't be me without pictures. I did this cue as a JOKE at first to prove a point when people were saying it's ok to dye the epoxy when installing the points. I said and still say, if you have to dye the epoxy, there's a problem and the people doing it, haven't figured it out yet! Meaning the Points don't fit the channel. YOU can fake it but YOU shouldn't have too. Please don't hate. I mean well.

Do you mean this is to hide gaps between the veneers/points if the epoxy is the same color, so it's harder to see?

 

[Michael Webb]

Do you mean this is to hide gaps between the veneers/points if the epoxy is the same color, so it's harder to see?

It was the practice of some to dye the epoxy black when the points of ebony or black veneer went against the forearm.
In a more simple explanation. The points didn't match the channel.

 

[Michael Webb]

I was questioning Evan Clark at the BCA approx. 2016 and asked him why he didn't make sharp points on a cue. He responded, "It's a sloppy way to make a cue."

I was thinking if everything was epoxied real good then it should be pretty strong.

Interesting.
All I can say on Vee points is. It is the ultimate test for everything in cue construction that follows after the points are in.
Drilling. Boring. Handle attachment. Butt bottom and weight bolt along with the bumper. To the joint screw sanding and finishing. If something is off in the process, it will effect the points being even or not.

 

[pwd72s]

This thread had me examining my Josey cue with 4 even and sharp points with a magnifying glass. Yes, Keith mainly does CNC stuff, but he can do and has done sharp points as well. My conclusion? My cue was done with the same technique as Michael Webb pictured.

I've also read that the old masters used a technique called pantograph? Anybody know how that worked?

 

[ShootingArts]

Of course it wouldn't be me without pictures. I did this cue as a JOKE at first to prove a point when people were saying it's ok to dye the epoxy when installing the points. I said and still say, if you have to dye the epoxy, there's a problem and the people doing it, haven't figured it out yet! Meaning the Points don't fit the channel. YOU can fake it but YOU shouldn't have too. Please don't hate. I mean well.

I used to run this rabbit years ago. I don't think the average buyer understands that a veneer can be a decoration or a crutch. I like recuts a lot better however I am just fine with some well fit single points. I like butterflies too, just my taste! Dislike Merry Wiidows.

Pantographs just traced a template to cut the pattern into wood. They were basically the same technology used to enlarge or shrink drawn images long ago. There were fierce battles over the skills required to trace with a pantograph or cut with NC when NC was first becoming known. The funny thing? Most of the patterns being traced with a pantograph were cut with a NC machine by that point in time! The pantograph could need hundreds of hours tracing templates to do the same thing a NC machine could do unattended. Neither was better or required more skills in my opinion. Twelve hour days tracing templates were enough to make you go blind or crazy or both though!

Hu

 

[7stud]

Interesting.
All I can say on Vee points is. It is the ultimate test for everything in cue construction that follows after the points are in.
Drilling. Boring. Handle attachment. Butt bottom and weight bolt along with the bumper. To the joint screw sanding and finishing. If something is off in the process, it will effect the points being even or not.

Is it hard to make the tips of the points line up evenly with each other?

 

[measureman]

You guys lost the OP about post #6.

 

[Michael Webb]

Is it hard to make the tips of the points line up evenly with each other?

The most important thing to remember is. When the Vee channels are cut. Everything theoretically is even.
What could change that besides what I posted in post 26.

Veneer thickness inconsistency.

Cross your T's and Dot your I's.

 

[Michael Webb]

You guys lost the OP about post #6.

That is truly sad if true. There's some good info here.

 

[pwd72s]

Hey, I've been enjoying the education here.

 

[Ssonerai]

.... used a technique called pantograph? Anybody know how that worked?

Yes.
I own.run a pantograph because i am too old & too dumb to learn cnc.
It is not used for points.
It is used for inlays, as shooting arts described. Also engraved lettering.

My uses for pantograph are not cues (I make FS sneakies, mostly & don't like inlaid cues)
Use my 3D Gorton to make some machine parts; and parts, inlays, and hardware for furniture.
Also to reduce or enlarge patterns for another, heavier tracer, a Thomson table for machine parts; and sometimes for the pin router.

 

[Kato]

That is truly sad if true. There's some good info here.

No- I’m still here. Just digesting information... and working!
Thanks all!!

 

[7stud]

Do cuemakers use alternating high/low points to hide the fact that they are unable to get the points even?

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Sharp & Even Point is the sign of a craftsman producing perfect Cue in some people eyes. I do not think a perfectly pointed Cue will pau any better then a Merry Widow by the same Cuemaker.


Point, Inlays, and Bling just add cost, and time to build.

 

[pwd72s]

Sharp & Even Point is the sign of a craftsman producing perfect Cue in some people eyes. I do not think a perfectly pointed Cue will pau any better then a Merry Widow by the same Cuemaker.


Point, Inlays, and Bling just add cost, and time to build.

True...perhaps. All I really know is it beings a smile whenever I look at my Josey with it's four veneered and even needle sharp points...

Apologies for for lousy camera work...

 

[Michael Webb]

Do cuemakers use alternating high/low points to hide the fact that they are unable to get the points even?

I do not. I think the hi/lo points started with the thought of offering something different and it stuck. Remember what machines were used back then and how far they have come. From Digital read outs to CNC's.
Back then. No digital read out.
If you wanted 6 or 8 even points, you could do it but you would have to change the ratio of the point to make them thinner at the base but you would also have spaces between them at the base.
Then YOU, the customer asked, can that gap be narrowed??
Hmmmm. Ok. The birth of Hi/lo and no gaps at the base and the points overlap each other. The FULL SPLICE look. Cha ching.....
Then, the thought was
How?? Can it be controlled where and when the points overlap without losing the length.
Bingo......Ratio change of the shorter points and keep the long points fat!
Pretty cool.
Advance to mondern time.
Digital read outs....CNC's
Doing equal length points in 6 or 8 have actually become easier to achieve because you have a beginning and end point to go back too repeatedly.
Jmo of course.

 

[71dewajack]

I do not. I think the hi/lo points started with the thought of offering something different and it stuck. Remember what machines were used back then and how far they have come. From Digital read outs to CNC's.
Back then. No digital read out.
If you wanted 6 or 8 even points, you could do it but you would have to change the ratio of the point to make them thinner at the base but you would also have spaces between them at the base.
Then YOU, the customer asked, can that gap be narrowed??
Hmmmm. Ok. The birth of Hi/lo and no gaps at the base and the points overlap each other. The FULL SPLICE look. Cha ching.....
Then, the thought was
How?? Can it be controlled where and when the points overlap without losing the length.
Bingo......Ratio change of the shorter points and keep the long points fat!
Pretty cool.
Advance to mondern time.
Digital read outs....CNC's
Doing equal length points in 6 or 8 have actually become easier to achieve because you have a beginning and end point to go back too repeatedly.
Jmo of course.

Don't stop, learning a lot here. Thanks for the tutorial.