Sharp points???

[Kato]

Can someone here tell me a few things....
1. What IS a sharp point?
2. How can you tell a CNC point from handmade or any other way, for that matter, by looking at the cue?
3. Can comparison pictures be posted showing the differences between the two?
4. I am trying to treat myself to a new, higher end cue. I currently have Joss, Cuetec, Players and McDermott and I would like to purchase something awesome, semi-handmade but it is becoming evident I do not know what I am looking at!
Thanks

 

[MmmSharp]

This has been great. After reading through this, i really appreciate Mikes thoughts on building techniques. I am thinking i will have to work with him on next cue

 

[Michael Webb]

This has been great. After reading through this, i really appreciate Mikes thoughts on building techniques. I am thinking i will have to work with him on next cue

Thank you. I'm honered that people are getting something out of this. That's a huge win for positivity here on AZ.
As far as orders. I can't and won't take anymore til further notice or even at all.
It's the best for everyone.

 

[ShootingArts]

Thank you. I'm honered that people are getting something out of this. That's a huge win for positivity here on AZ.
As far as orders. I can't and won't take anymore til further notice or even at all.
It's the best for everyone.

Remember when similar threads dominated this main forum? We can only hope to get those days back!

Hu

 

[Michael Webb]

Remember when similar threads dominated this main forum? We can only hope to get those days back!

Hu

I do.
To repair that people need to remember they are a guest here.
If the moderators have to be forced into babysitting, then they should give 30 day vacations to remind people they are a guest here. Some should be flat out banned for thier consistent negativity.
Word will spread.

 

[Kato]

Cnc points are essentially an inlay. Sharp points as you call them are a splice.
Billy Stroud made cnc points that were sharp by just finishing the pocket to be sharp. You could still tell if you knew what to look for.

So, what exactly would one look for?

 

[Kato]

Good morning.
I'll try not to bore you to much. For my cues, the Sharp points come from a tapered Vee channel. Deep at the base of the forearm and the taper runs out coming up the forearm. I use a Vee cutter mounted in a router on a lathe and utilize and indexer to lock the chuck for X amount of points.

Believe me, this is not boring! Have you, by chance, ever made a video showing how you build a cue? I don’t want you to give away any secrets, just interested.

 

[Kato]

To answer your second question, hand spliced cues have rounded points which are achieved by gluing the butt timber around the shaft and planing it down. The result are rounded splice peaks.

I've never seen or heard of any hand spliced American pool cues, but my English pool cue is hand spliced. Image shown below. I've also included an image of a machine spliced English pool/snooker cue to compare it.

Has anyone ever tried to combine sharp point (veneers?) with “butterfly” splices AND a CNC inlay??
Would that be cool... or too busy?

 

[Kato]

So, in the for sale section, there are 2 cues, by the same manufacturer that are the same price. One has rounded points and the other sharp. Should the price be the same??? It seems to me one takes more craftsmanship and one take more “tech”. Both are a cost but, which is more “worth it”? Does that make sense?
I don’t want to clomp on the sale, so I don’t want to give away the maker.

 

[Greg M]

Has anyone ever tried to combine sharp point (veneers?) with “butterfly” splices AND a CNC inlay??
Would that be cool... or too busy?

I've never seen or heard of it being used in main splicing, but on English pool and snooker cues, machine-spliced cues with sharp points can have hand-planed splices added for decoration below the join. I've never seen it in American cues, though, as they're nearly all machine spliced.

 

[Ssonerai]

Has anyone ever tried to combine sharp point (veneers?) with “butterfly” splices AND a CNC inlay??
Would that be cool... or too busy?

That's essentially what a 360 is.
Arranged in a sequence so the "butterfly" splice veneers come out between the full splice points.

There have been other versions of cues with other more or less complex arrangements of both features .

Arounceville blank:

Some of the finished cues from similar blanks have included inlays. Not sure what method.

Brunswick 360 History

Hello all, I've been trying to track down info on this amazing cue. But, there isn't much info out there. From my research the 360 was made from 1909-1929, but that is pretty much all the info I can find. Who was the maker? Are they all the...

forums.azbilliards.com

smt

 

[Kato]

And, as I found out in the cuemaker's forum, there is more. There are sharp points made with "overlapped" veneers, and there are sharp points made with "mitered" veneers. If you take a close look at a picture of the points on an Ariel Carmeli cue (overlapped veneers), you will notice that a point is formed entirely by either the left or right veneer, while with mitered veneers a point is formed by half of each veneer. To me, overlapped veneers look crooked: the glue line extending from the tip of a point formed by the veneers will veer to the left or right, instead of extending straight through the point formed by the next pair of veneers, as with mitered veneers.

See here:

Construction of sharp points

I read a cue review on azbilliards, and the person described how the points on his cue were constructed. Only one side of a veneer actually reached the point. The other veneer was sliced off below the point. You can see that method of...

forums.azbilliards.com

And, I think there is another technique where the points are "recut", so there are no glue lines at all extending from the tip of a point. If you imagine the outer veneer color being one solid point, I think the cuemaker then cuts another interior point, which is slightly smaller than the outer point, which makes what's left of the outer point look like a veneer.

Sharp:

View attachment 593484
Not sharp:

View attachment 593483

 

[Kato]

And, as I found out in the cuemaker's forum, there is more. There are sharp points made with "overlapped" veneers, and there are sharp points made with "mitered" veneers. If you take a close look at a picture of the points on an Ariel Carmeli cue (overlapped veneers), you will notice that a point is formed entirely by either the left or right veneer, while with mitered veneers a point is formed by half of each veneer. To me, overlapped veneers look crooked: the glue line extending from the tip of a point formed by the veneers will veer to the left or right, instead of extending straight through the point formed by the next pair of veneers, as with mitered veneers.

See here:

Construction of sharp points

I read a cue review on azbilliards, and the person described how the points on his cue were constructed. Only one side of a veneer actually reached the point. The other veneer was sliced off below the point. You can see that method of...

forums.azbilliards.com

And, I think there is another technique where the points are "recut", so there are no glue lines at all extending from the tip of a point. If you imagine the outer veneer color being one solid point, I think the cuemaker then cuts another interior point, which is slightly smaller than the outer point, which makes what's left of the outer point look like a veneer.

Sharp:

View attachment 593484
Not sharp:

View attachment 593483

So, in the first photo the pints seem to fall off to the left and the second seem to be straight. Is this a flaw or considered part of the “art”?

 

[Michael Webb]

Believe me, this is not boring! Have you, by chance, ever made a video showing how you build a cue? I don’t want you to give away any secrets, just interested.

No!
I have no interest in that stuff. Mitering is pretty straight forward although it can be done on different set ups.
My overlapped method would boggle most people's mind. I keep that to myself and never share it.

 

[Michael Webb]

Believe me, this is not boring! Have you, by chance, ever made a video showing how you build a cue? I don’t want you to give away any secrets, just interested.

Duplicate

 

[Michael Webb]

Has anyone ever tried to combine sharp point (veneers?) with “butterfly” splices AND a CNC inlay??
Would that be cool... or too busy?

Butterflies with Vee points have been done by many of us. Some have a CNC for inlays some use a Pantogragh and some just don't do inlays.

 

[Michael Webb]

So, what exactly would one look for?

 

[Kato]

Thank you. I'm honered that people are getting something out of this. That's a huge win for positivity here on AZ.
As far as orders. I can't and won't take anymore til further notice or even at all.
It's the best for everyone.

I think most average people have no idea what makes a cue, me for one. The on-site we can get from a cue maker as to which woods or joints give different “feel” is most enlightening.
Your statement on not building cues is kind of cryptic... may I ask why it’s “best for everyone” that you won’t take orders for cues. Obviously, it is a personal matter, no comment is necessary.

 

[Michael Webb]

I think most average people have no idea what makes a cue, me for one. The on-site we can get from a cue maker as to which woods or joints give different “feel” is most enlightening.
Your statement on not building cues is kind of cryptic... may I ask why it’s “best for everyone” that you won’t take orders for cues. Obviously, it is a personal matter, no comment is necessary.

The bottom line. I can't stick to delivery dates. My work schedule changes everyday.
No song and dance. No excuses.

 

[7stud]

Lately, I've been seeing bleeding veneers in cues made by highly touted cuemakers. Do sharp points cause any additional worries for bleeding veneers? Is there a sure fire way to prevent bleeding veneers? Or, is it hit or miss?

 

[Michael Webb]

Lately, I've been seeing bleeding veneers in cues made by highly touted cuemakers. Do sharp points cause any additional worries for bleeding veneers? Is there a sure fire way to prevent bleeding veneers? Or, is it hit or miss?

Great question.
I would really enjoy breaking it down for people. As much as I think it's important to educate people on what they are looking at, I wouldn't want Cue makers to get challenged. I edited my other post for that reason and I apologize.

The bleeding veneers have nothing to do with the points being sharp or not.
I have to stop there because I don't want to start any shit storms. Our job is hard eneogh.