short vs long ferrules

Charlie Edwards

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I played pool since way back in the days when 1''-1.25'' ferrules were the rule. Even now I prefer the hit of long ferrules. It seems that in the last 10-15 years ferrules have gotten shorter and shorter. Some are now .25''.

I'm sure that trend is to reduce squirt. Short ferrules probably do just that. Is it just my imagination that cues with longer ferrules hit better?

Also, is a .25'' tenon long enough to support a ferrule, even a .25'' one? It seems to me that a shaft with no ferrule would be better than one with such a super short one. Any thoughts?
 
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S

skip

Guest
Man short ferrules are a sore spot for me. I ordered a new shaft from a well known cue maker. Told him what model cue of his I have said I loved the taper of his shaft but was a little thinner than my main shaft. He said no problem I didn't have to send him my old shaft. Because it was his standard. Well when I got it it had a very short ferrule. I called him up to complain he said no problem send it back an he would take care of it. Will he cut it off but put a standard length ferrule on making the shaft shorter. I called back I was told thats as far as they would go. I think I got the shaft. :mad:
 

hangemhigh

Known Sinner
Silver Member
Well when I got it it had a very short ferrule. I called him up to complain he said no problem send it back an he would take care of it. Will he cut it off but put a standard length ferrule on making the shaft shorter. I called back I was told thats as far as they would go. I think I got the shaft. :mad:

You definitely got the shaft, what a hack.

I go from 1", .750, .500, to no ferrule. Don't like the .250 no matter what size tenon.
 
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BLACKHEARTCUES

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On my BLACK HEART CUES I have recently gone from my standard 1 1/8" ferrule to a 1". I'm not convinced it makes a damn bit of difference...JER
 

CarromBilliards

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ferrule

This debate could go on forever with somewhat biased opinions. You are not going to satisfy everyone because everyone prefers a different feel, hit response and "look". IMHO If you see the hit of any cue in 1000fps slow motion video you will see the stress or "bend', if you will, of the ferrule upon impact as well as the tip. So keeping this in mind the larger diameter tenon (stiffer) and the shorter the ferrule should depict less 'squirt" for a more accurate ball path to the object ball. Please if anyone has any other input please let me know because the cue we have designed falls into these perimeters and uses this theory. Release date is march of 2011. Thanks Carrom illiards.
 

BLACKHEARTCUES

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't like the fact that shaft makers claim that their shafts produce less deflection. Then you realize that they are reducing the diameter to 11.75mm or some thing similar. I always try to compare apples to apples, but you can't, because they won't make a 13mm shaft, but they compare the amount of deflection, of their skinnier shaft to a standard 13mm. I think they fudge the facts, so that there really is NO comparison. Just my thoughts...JER
 

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
Man short ferrules are a sore spot for me. I ordered a new shaft from a well known cue maker. Told him what model cue of his I have said I loved the taper of his shaft but was a little thinner than my main shaft. He said no problem I didn't have to send him my old shaft. Because it was his standard. Well when I got it it had a very short ferrule. I called him up to complain he said no problem send it back an he would take care of it. Will he cut it off but put a standard length ferrule on making the shaft shorter. I called back I was told thats as far as they would go. I think I got the shaft. :mad:
Someone screwed up, for sure. There's absolutely no reason to shorten a shaft for a longer ferrule.
I'm guessing the end of the shaft was damaged somehow during the process, and had to be cut. He should have built you another shaft to replace it, and you'd be well within your rights to ask for one...
 

rhncue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Man short ferrules are a sore spot for me. I ordered a new shaft from a well known cue maker. Told him what model cue of his I have said I loved the taper of his shaft but was a little thinner than my main shaft. He said no problem I didn't have to send him my old shaft. Because it was his standard. Well when I got it it had a very short ferrule. I called him up to complain he said no problem send it back an he would take care of it. Will he cut it off but put a standard length ferrule on making the shaft shorter. I called back I was told thats as far as they would go. I think I got the shaft. :mad:

I believe you misunderstood what the cue maker was stating to you. Changing from a longer ferrule to a shorter one will shorten the shaft but changing a shorter to a longer will make the shaft even longer than it is at present. The cue maker will trim the shaft back the difference in tenon length for the longer ferrule but the final resulting shaft will be the same length as initially made.

Dick
 

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
OK, let's start at the beginning.
Why do shafts have a ferrule anyway? They have a ferrule to protect the tip-end of the shaft from splitting and mushrooming the wood.
Will a shaft without a ferrule have less squirt? The science says yes because there is less front-end mass; plastic weighs more than wood.
But by the same token, that shaft is at risk of being split or mushed BECAUSE of the lack of a ferrule. Almost every cue-maker in the world realizes and understands this.
A ferrule-less shaft is nothing new or innovative. It's what they had before they realized a ferrule was needed. Why do you think all shafts come with a ferrule installed??? looks??? It's there to protect the wood. There's no 2 ways about it.
Ask Schon or McDermott to give you a ferrule-less shaft when you order your new cue and see if you get a warranty with it.

OK, let's look at ferrule length(s). As stated, plastic weighs more than wood. The longer the ferrule, the greater the front-end mass. That equates to greater squirt.
This could almost be viewed upon as a mute point because a true, accomplished player will adapt to the equipment he has. However, that example is more about human adaptability than the science of squirt and the length of a ferrule so I'll leave that be.
Ferrule length, composition and tenon diameter have as much to do with a cue's hit as does the selection of tip. They go hand in hand.
OK, since plastic weighs more than wood, it would stand to reason that the shorter the ferrule, the less additional weight. So what is the optimal length? This is where it starts to get fuzzy because nobody really knows.
Even if a standard length were agreed upon there would be exceptions because everyone has a different game. Everyone hits the ball differently & not all QBs weigh the same. Let's say you've got the strongest break in the room.
Do you honestly expect that ferrule less shaft to hold-up and not incurr damage at some point? You know how your tip will mushroom? I'll bet that the wood just under that tip is doing the same thing, albeit to a lesser degree.
To answer the OP's question of: "It seems to me that a shaft with no ferrule would be better than one with such a super short one. Any thoughts?".
Yes, something is better than nothing. We just haven't determined how much of 'something' is best.

Squirt, and measures taken to counter it, are very real. So real it's become a science.
Platinum Billiards, when they were up & running, did an independent test on a myriad of shafts to compare the degree of squirt that each shaft would produce. The test parameters were the same for all shafts.
The shaft with the least squirt was the Predator Z @ 11.75mm.
However, the shaft with the next least deflection was the Predator 314 @ 12.75mm. Next in line was the OB-1 which is also @ 12.75mm or just a touch above. None of the shafts tested, to my knowledge, were ferrule-less.
Even the Predator BK break shaft was in the top 8 of 46 shafts tested. The Predator FAT @ 13.2mm was not in production at the time of the tests but given it has less F/E mass than the BK shaft, I would be inclined to rate it higher.

Nobody's fudging the facts Jer, it's just weird science.
 
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Charlie Edwards

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the reply. My commits about no ferrule possibly being better than one only .250 long I was questioning whether or not such a short tenon would be strong enough to support a ferrule, especially on 11.75mm shaft.

As far as low squirt goes I'm not at all sure it offers players an advantage. Swerve/curve is almost never mentioned when a squirt discussion gets started but, to me, it's just as important. Squirt reduces curve to some extent, at least for aiming. On short shots squirt/curve is minor because the cue ball doesn't have enough room to do either. On longer soft shots squirts helps offset curve, when aiming. On longer shots shot harder, squirt is the only adjustment a player makes, and that seems minor to me. I guess it all depends on the player, but there have always been good players before low squirt was even thought about. I don't really know if low squirt shafts have actually elevated the skill level of pool players. The opposite may be true, I don't know.

I'm not impressed with low squirt test, either. They all are shot pretty hard. Not soft enough to have any swerve/curve/throw enter into the picture. If those same shots were softer, sometimes there would appear to be no squirt with higher squirt shafts because it was offset by swerve/curve.
 
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McChen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i don't think a short tenon even on a thin shaft would be a problem. i play a lot of 3 cushion and those cues are normally 12mm with short ferrules ranging from 1/4" to 3/8" in length. I've got carom shafts with 5/16" tenons and 3/8" thru tenons and they hold up fine. and also keep in mind that the carom balls are about an ounce heavier than pool balls and that in 3c you often shoot extreme english shots at high speed and the ferrules all hold up fine.
 

merylane

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the reply. My commits about no ferrule possibly being better than one only .250 long I was questioning whether or not such a short tenon would be strong enough to support a ferrule, especially on 11.75mm shaft.


the shorter the tenon the stronger it is.
 
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