shot my best pool tonight and I know why... long

prewarhero

prewarhero

guess my avatar
Silver Member
after not playing for about a year, I started playing again about 2 months ago. It took me a while to get back in the grove. After a week I felt I got my stroke back and perhaps better than it was before. But I still was very unpleased with my play. My runouts were unacceptable. I thought long and hard about what was holding me back. Speed control was an obvious problem as was simple pocketing. And to the lesser, just small simple finesse things that go away with not playing such as perdicting the right tagent lines and diverting from them, carroms, kisses, and so on.....

My first diagnisis was just lack of focus, that explains poor descions and missing easy shots, and bad speed. I started to concentrate on focusing (LOL). Didn't help. I guess I didn't know how to focus properly. By accident tonight I found how....(at least for me)

Tonight I shot the best pool ever. I go to the room throw some ball out and was not shooting well. I made my mind up to focus like I have working on. Still nothing.... Then bamm. I readjusted my entire pre-shot rutine. I never paid as much creedance to the pre-shot routine before. I did everything a proper instructor would tell me to do. Plan route and decide on stroke and speed. Firm stance, get down low, eye it up, aim it up, warm up stroke and NOW IS WHERE I USE MY ENERGY TO FOCUS, execute, and stay down.

The sad thing is: this is basic fundamentals and I should have had this revelation before, but it improved and simplified my game by leaps and bounds tonight. I must have shot at least an .850 or better tonight. And I had more confidence that helped snowball things. There wasn't a rack I didn't think I couldn't get out on.

Just thought I would share as I feel this is that one thing that may have gotten me to the next level. Now to work on the break, oy!

Jordan
 
Way to go Jordan! We have some new stuff on eye pattern movement that I believe will take you even a step further. I may be in Chicago next Wed. (7/15) if you're interested in getting together.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
Way to go Jordan! We have some new stuff on eye pattern movement that I believe will take you even a step further. I may be in Chicago next Wed. (7/15) if you're interested in getting together.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


Scott, your timming is always off. This month is bad. But I will be free almost all of september and october. nov till dec 15th is out. But I should have a home table in my new place and as long as the place is done by then you are welcome to stay at my place. I will be in gurnee.
 
pool is so much harder than it looks. The preshot is crucial.......and then like you said.....the focus!! How many times do you find yourself going thru your routine and youre just sleepwalking once youre down in the stance and pulling the trigger.
 
scottycoyote said:
pool is so much harder than it looks. The preshot is crucial.......and then like you said.....the focus!! How many times do you find yourself going thru your routine and youre just sleepwalking once youre down in the stance and pulling the trigger.
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thats what I am talkin about. I am guilty (or was) of this way way to much.
 
prewarhero said:
Scott, your timming is always off. This month is bad. But I will be free almost all of september and october. nov till dec 15th is out. But I should have a home table in my new place and as long as the place is done by then you are welcome to stay at my place. I will be in gurnee.
Click to expand...

Jordan...Whenever you're ready, I'll be there to help you! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott- I assume you mean 8/15 and not 7/15?

Where in Chicago are you going to be? I live in the area and would love to stop by and see you in action.
 
prewarhero said:
after not playing for about a year, I started playing again about 2 months ago. It took me a while to get back in the grove. After a week I felt I got my stroke back and perhaps better than it was before. But I still was very unpleased with my play. My runouts were unacceptable. I thought long and hard about what was holding me back. Speed control was an obvious problem as was simple pocketing. And to the lesser, just small simple finesse things that go away with not playing such as perdicting the right tagent lines and diverting from them, carroms, kisses, and so on.....

My first diagnisis was just lack of focus, that explains poor descions and missing easy shots, and bad speed. I started to concentrate on focusing (LOL). Didn't help. I guess I didn't know how to focus properly. By accident tonight I found how....(at least for me)

Tonight I shot the best pool ever. I go to the room throw some ball out and was not shooting well. I made my mind up to focus like I have working on. Still nothing.... Then bamm. I readjusted my entire pre-shot rutine. I never paid as much creedance to the pre-shot routine before. I did everything a proper instructor would tell me to do. Plan route and decide on stroke and speed. Firm stance, get down low, eye it up, aim it up, warm up stroke and NOW IS WHERE I USE MY ENERGY TO FOCUS, execute, and stay down.

The sad thing is: this is basic fundamentals and I should have had this revelation before, but it improved and simplified my game by leaps and bounds tonight. I must have shot at least an .850 or better tonight. And I had more confidence that helped snowball things. There wasn't a rack I didn't think I couldn't get out on.

Just thought I would share as I feel this is that one thing that may have gotten me to the next level. Now to work on the break, oy!

Jordan
Click to expand...

thanks for that story, it is actually helpful for me.
 
Good stuff...

About 6 months ago I stopped playing pool (I used to play every day), and then about 2 months ago I decide to enter into one of those "end of season" 2-day tournaments with calcutta at a pool hall in South Florida... I end up playing the best pool I think I've ever played, and run threw the board, nobody got more than 4 games in on me, I sent a local short-stop to the one-loss side to seat me on king of the hill, then I wait for him and the guy who ended up 3rd to finish...
It gets back to me and the short-stop playing for first... He wins the first match 8-6, we play the second (and final) set and I hang up the 7-ball for a 7-8 loss.. I just wasn't paying attention to what was making me play so good for the past two days... it wasn't the pressure, I just couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong...

Hows this for a capper though... The tournament Directors decided that since the Calcutta was just $600 and change, that they would ship it all to the first-place player only... not second or third... Doesn't that sound like a bad idea?

So this guy gets $600 for first, plus $600 for calcutta for a total of $1,200, and I get $400 for second, and $0 calcutta, for a total of $400.... That is such a huge swing it was insane...

What do you guys think? lol.
 
scottycoyote said:
pool is so much harder than it looks. The preshot is crucial.......and then like you said.....the focus!! How many times do you find yourself going thru your routine and youre just sleepwalking once youre down in the stance and pulling the trigger.
Click to expand...

Your statement brought to mind a book I read a while back. It was called The Pleasures of Small Motions ( I believe) In the book, the author talks about emotions. Why we as humans do things. He says we do various things based on motivation and motivation is powered by emotion.

Sleepwalking as you phrased it, IMO is a perfect example of lack of emotion and therefore lack of motivation.

He talks about modulating our emotions and taking control to some extent. This would empower motivation and focus and concentration.

I highly recommend this book to any who have not read it.
 
AZE said:
Good stuff...

About 6 months ago I stopped playing pool (I used to play every day), and then about 2 months ago I decide to enter into one of those "end of season" 2-day tournaments with calcutta at a pool hall in South Florida... I end up playing the best pool I think I've ever played, and run threw the board, nobody got more than 4 games in on me, I sent a local short-stop to the one-loss side to seat me on king of the hill, then I wait for him and the guy who ended up 3rd to finish...
It gets back to me and the short-stop playing for first... He wins the first match 8-6, we play the second (and final) set and I hang up the 7-ball for a 7-8 loss.. I just wasn't paying attention to what was making me play so good for the past two days... it wasn't the pressure, I just couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong...

Hows this for a capper though... The tournament Directors decided that since the Calcutta was just $600 and change, that they would ship it all to the first-place player only... not second or third... Doesn't that sound like a bad idea?

So this guy gets $600 for first, plus $600 for calcutta for a total of $1,200, and I get $400 for second, and $0 calcutta, for a total of $400.... That is such a huge swing it was insane...

What do you guys think? lol.
Click to expand...

Wow, you got hosed. Ussually we go 50, 30, 20 for 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
 
219Dave said:
Scott- I assume you mean 8/15 and not 7/15?

Where in Chicago are you going to be? I live in the area and would love to stop by and see you in action.
Click to expand...

Dave...LOL! Yeah, I guess I travel so much I forget what month it is! :eek: :D I'll just be in town that day probably, and usually I play at Pressure Billiards, on N. Clark, as it is only 5 minutes from where I stay. I have a lesson that day at CuePhoria, which is out on the west side of Chicago. Personally I never mind someone 'stopping by to see me in action'. However, my student has to be okay with it, as they are paying for my time. Some people go out of their way to want to be alone. PM me with your phone number, and I'll see if we can meet up somewhere.

I also play at City Pool Hall, G-Cue Billiards, Chris's Billiards on Milwaukee, and Palace Billiards out in the west suburbs. One place I want to try is Pro Tyme in Orland Park. I've heard nothing but good things about it. Also, Tom K.'s new room in Elgin!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
A point

you brought up speed control as an issue. This something that falls into one of 3 categories over my 45 years of playing:

1) Those that develop the feel of it naturally in a short amount of time.
(these players can adapt to any table speed within 10 minutes tops)

2) Those that develop it through logic to have a certain amount of feel, but can not hit a small window going 2 rails or more. This category includes those that look like they 'push' the cue ball instead of stroking it in a natural way (frequently because there grip hand is too far forward on the cue). Their efforts have a mechanical look in lieu of a natural look to it.

3) And those that never develop a feel for speed other than the basic elementary shape shots. They always look like a duck out of water.
 
Scott Lee said:
Way to go Jordan! We have some new stuff on eye pattern movement that I believe will take you even a step further. I may be in Chicago next Wed. (7/15) if you're interested in getting together.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott, there various ways to coordinate eye movement, and I'd like your take on these two which I have worked on quite a bit. One of them is definitely better for me, at least I think it is. :)

The first one has to do with the back and forth eye movements once one is down on the shot, going from cue ball to object ball point of contact, or wherever one is aiming, back to cue ball to ensure the tip of the cue is going to actually strike the cue ball in the correct place. Three practice strokes, be sure everything is properly lined up, set, pause with tip of cue at the exact point to be hit on the cue ball, shift eyes to contact point on object ball and hold that steady, then a slow back stroke and a smooth transition into the forward swing and accelerate the cue through the cue ball, keeping the eyes focused on the object ball. Let the stroke come to it's natural finish with the tip of the cue coming to rest on the cloth about five inches in front of where the cue ball originally was.

The second way is quite similar, but all that eye pattern movement is basically not there. The shot is visualized in the standing position, english to be applied, if any is calculated, stroke speed is decided upon, tip placement on the cue ball is decided, contact point on the object ball is decided, lining up the contact point on the front of the cue ball to contact the object ball is pre-visualized, then smoothly transition into the stance, but keeping the mind's eye focused continually on the contact point on the object ball. Falling perfectly into the stance and setup, using one's periferal vision to get the feel if the tip is going to contact the cue ball in the correct place, if the shaft is properly aligned, take those three practice strokes at the speed of the final stroke, slow back swing. Never let the eyes off the contact point, set, pause with the tip at the contact point on the cue ball, slow backswing, smooth acceleration through the cue ball with the eyes never leaving the desired contact point on the object ball, natural finish as above.

Of these two methods, I can assure you the second one helps me pot more balls and get better shape than the first. I can't really tell you why, perhaps it's because my eyes are very still, and focused, and my concentration is heightened.

What do you think about all the eye movement in the first way, versus the second. I have the impression that all the eye movement introduces some errors.

Flex
 
P.e.p.

Flex...In pool school (and in my private lessons) we teach our students how to find their Personal Eye Pattern. Most players have no idea how much, how often, or how fast their eyes move back and forth from CB to OB...even expert players. The Quiet Eye Study, done by the University of FL, and redone a year later by the University of Quebec, showed identical results. From these studies we developed a teaching process to help our students understand how their eyes work with their brains, and how best to utilize those concepts individually. The studies showed that REM between CB and OB produced inconsistent results, due to not enough visual information being provided to the eyes, and consequently not enough information for the brain to process, and provide feedback (usually in the form of a muscle command, or 'go or don't go'). When your eye pattern is consisent for all shots, your brain is able to coordinate with your hands and eyes, to produce a consistent delivery cycle through the CB. It also enables the player to "bail out" before making some unconscious error in their personal process (i.e.: I knew I was going to miss before I shot!"). I have worked with several pro players, who after implementing their new PEP, saw marked improvement in their overall success at the table. To answer your question, I'd say it has more to do with when your eyes focus on the OB, than whether you move them back and forth at all. IMO you need to focus both places, because the brain needs information on two contact points (CB & OB). You just have to focus long enough (the 2 second rule), to allow the brain to process the information, before you deliver the stroke.:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Flex said:
Scott, there various ways to coordinate eye movement, and I'd like your take on these two which I have worked on quite a bit. One of them is definitely better for me, at least I think it is. :)

The first one has to do with the back and forth eye movements once one is down on the shot, going from cue ball to object ball point of contact, or wherever one is aiming, back to cue ball to ensure the tip of the cue is going to actually strike the cue ball in the correct place. Three practice strokes, be sure everything is properly lined up, set, pause with tip of cue at the exact point to be hit on the cue ball, shift eyes to contact point on object ball and hold that steady, then a slow back stroke and a smooth transition into the forward swing and accelerate the cue through the cue ball, keeping the eyes focused on the object ball. Let the stroke come to it's natural finish with the tip of the cue coming to rest on the cloth about five inches in front of where the cue ball originally was.

The second way is quite similar, but all that eye pattern movement is basically not there. The shot is visualized in the standing position, english to be applied, if any is calculated, stroke speed is decided upon, tip placement on the cue ball is decided, contact point on the object ball is decided, lining up the contact point on the front of the cue ball to contact the object ball is pre-visualized, then smoothly transition into the stance, but keeping the mind's eye focused continually on the contact point on the object ball. Falling perfectly into the stance and setup, using one's periferal vision to get the feel if the tip is going to contact the cue ball in the correct place, if the shaft is properly aligned, take those three practice strokes at the speed of the final stroke, slow back swing. Never let the eyes off the contact point, set, pause with the tip at the contact point on the cue ball, slow backswing, smooth acceleration through the cue ball with the eyes never leaving the desired contact point on the object ball, natural finish as above.

Of these two methods, I can assure you the second one helps me pot more balls and get better shape than the first. I can't really tell you why, perhaps it's because my eyes are very still, and focused, and my concentration is heightened.

What do you think about all the eye movement in the first way, versus the second. I have the impression that all the eye movement introduces some errors.

Flex
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
To answer your question, I'd say it has more to do with when your eyes focus on the OB, than whether you move them back and forth at all. IMO you need to focus both places, because the brain needs information on two contact points (CB & OB). You just have to focus long enough (the 2 second rule), to allow the brain to process the information, before you deliver the stroke.:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Thanks, Scott. That sure seems to be the crux of the question. BTW, I'm pretty slow at that focusing stuff.

Flex <---- probably needs a good 5 or more seconds for tough shots
 
Scott Lee said:
Flex...In pool school (and in my private lessons) we teach our students how to find their Personal Eye Pattern.
Click to expand...

SL,
Just a "student's eye view" of this issue. I was given some specific drills by Mark Wilson about 6 months ago whose purpose was to standardize my eye movement pattern; and to make those eye movements part of my pre-shot routine.

I found the drills VERY difficult to perform; about 10 or 15 minutes was excruciating - definitely tough to stick to for very long. I suppose it was a measure of how poorly coordinated my eye movement was.

After a few months; it just seems automatic; and there was a fairly big jump in my skill level which I attribute to the standardization of my eye movement. Your focus on this area is definitely warranted in my view.
 
Scott, I don't know if this is something you teach or not, but I've always felt exhaling before I pull the trigger keeps me down on the table. If I inhale I have a tendancy to raise up when shooting. What are your thoughts?
 
buzzsaw said:
Scott, I don't know if this is something you teach or not, but I've always felt exhaling before I pull the trigger keeps me down on the table. If I inhale I have a tendancy to raise up when shooting. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...


Exhaling is crucial to being relaxed. When you exhale you must relax your chest muscles…When you breathe in your chest gets tensed up…..Not only that, but exhaling forces you to continue breathing during your rack..(Especially when you’re nervous)

People tend to stop breathing when they are nervous…by the end of the rack your brain is starving for oxygen and you become prone to mistakes…. (Yes I was/ have been guilty of this)

Back on the original topic…….Focusing on the pre-shot routine and improving because of it is the easy part….The much harder part is the continuation of focus over extended periods of time….

For me it is much like a train wreck….. I start off slow and focused on each shot and methodically run a rack. I then gain a bit of confidence and start to run out with more confidence… I then speed up (subconsciously) do to the fact that I am hitting them well and gaining more and more confidence… My rhythm becomes faster and faster (not on purpose, it just happens)……About the time that I realize that I am steam rolling my opponent and they make a mention of (something like) “damn you are on fire”, or “I have not seen you play like this before”, or “If you are going to keep playing like this I will just quit now”… or something of that nature, that is about the time I dog a ball from lack of “routine”…. (usually a simple shot)………….Shortly after that is when you see what looks like the scene from the beginning of the movie “The Fugitive” ……. I hate when that happens…

I am always most impressed with players that can stick to their rhythm of play no matter what the score, situation, how fast the other player plays etc.
 
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