ChrisBanks
Banned
I think Hoppe just threw that in there to mislead people, so they would never be a threat to beat him.
Shot / stroke problem
- Thread starter teddosan
- Start date
I think Hoppe just threw that in there to mislead people, so they would never be a threat to beat him.
If you are doing everything right you can be looking at the waitress.
I saw Cole Dickson fire in a long(spot shot length) straight in 9 ball as hard as it could be hit, knocking the back off the pocket while looking into a cute young things eyes. That was the grand finale to the table run. Cole got the money but not the girl.....she was my neice!
I saw Cole Dickson fire in a long(spot shot length) straight in 9 ball as hard as it could be hit, knocking the back off the pocket while looking into a cute young things eyes. That was the grand finale to the table run. Cole got the money but not the girl.....she was my neice!
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Not being able to watch you, try a little test first.... take a striped ball, set it so the stripe is as perfectly vertical as you can get it, and then hit it dead center to the opposite short rail. Now, ask yourself two things- did the stripe wobble, and did the ball come back to your tip?
When you can reliably do that, then you know that you are 1. Hitting center cb with no english accidentally applied, and 2. Able to shoot straight down your intended shot line. If you can do this, then it is fairly safe to rule out problems with your fundamentals, and start looking at your aim on a straight in shot.
To aim a straight in shot, do not look at the center of the ob. It is too hard to find. Instead, look at the very top, or the very bottom of the ob. I prefer the top because it is very easy to find. The very top is dead center of the ob. Line up your cue tip carefully to dead center on the cb, and then forget the cb is even there and just shoot at the very top of the ob. Of course, your follow through won't go anywheres near the ob, but that is not the point of what you are doing here.
If you are having trouble with your fundamentals, get with a qualified instructor as soon as you can, or search the net for RELIABLE people and study what they have to say. Dr. Dave, MikePage, both have videos you can view on basics, and Scott Lee and Randy G. also have a video out that can be purchased on fundamentals. Those are just some of those on here.
When you can reliably do that, then you know that you are 1. Hitting center cb with no english accidentally applied, and 2. Able to shoot straight down your intended shot line. If you can do this, then it is fairly safe to rule out problems with your fundamentals, and start looking at your aim on a straight in shot.
To aim a straight in shot, do not look at the center of the ob. It is too hard to find. Instead, look at the very top, or the very bottom of the ob. I prefer the top because it is very easy to find. The very top is dead center of the ob. Line up your cue tip carefully to dead center on the cb, and then forget the cb is even there and just shoot at the very top of the ob. Of course, your follow through won't go anywheres near the ob, but that is not the point of what you are doing here.
If you are having trouble with your fundamentals, get with a qualified instructor as soon as you can, or search the net for RELIABLE people and study what they have to say. Dr. Dave, MikePage, both have videos you can view on basics, and Scott Lee and Randy G. also have a video out that can be purchased on fundamentals. Those are just some of those on here.
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Neil said it well. The first thing that came to mind is the guy isnt hitting center ball or thinks he is and swerves his stroke at the last moment
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Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Better advice. Don't listen to someone who says don't listen to anyone who claims to know...becasue a LOT of members here KNOW TONS about the game.
AND there are nowhere NEAR "575 different things" you're doing wrong. Just a FEW fundamentals. I doubt a World Champion could make a list of 50-75 things they do.
Now I'll read the rest of the thread to see what people who KNOW what they're talking about have already posted.
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EagleMan
What HE said is absolutely CORRECT! You will save yourself a MASSIVE amount of time getting started off with the correct BASIC fundamentals and you can get them CHEAP from a qualified instructor...fundamentals that will last you your entire pool playing lifetime.
In the meantime...don't worry too much about CB contact just yet. Just try your best to hit the CB dead center but as others have said, you are AIMING at the dead center of the OB...as though you were going to follow all the way through with your cue tip and touch the dead center of the OB.
If you approach it that way the shot will go unless you've got some big time "hitch" in your stroke...that can have several causes but not THAT many.
To just take a quick check of your stroke...lay an empty DRY plastic soda bottle on the table and take your practice strokes directly into the opening without touching the bottle either on the way in or the way out.
Without a pretty straight stroke, you will keep hitting the opening of the bottle.
Also, just stroke up on the top of the rail with the seam directly under your cue. If your stroke is straight, you will never see the seam on either the forward or back stroke.
My bet is that you'll have trouble with both of those techniques in which case a good instructor can tell you in a heartbeat what fundamental flaws you have and how to correct them.
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EagleMan
I don't know what's so funny about it. I didn't learn the CB last method and couldn't adapt to it now for love or money but there ARE champions who do exactly that.
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EagleMan
I had the same problem with long straight in shots-the way i corrected it from 40% to 85 %(still miss 15 %) started same angle 1 foot at time backing away-each time until i could pot 10--when i missed i would go forward 1 foot-it works for me-maybe worth a try? i found the key was to lay a small piece of paper every foot in a straight line of the pocket so the ob was always in the same spot-always placing the cueball 1 foot from OB--hope that makes sence as im like yourself trying to learn how to play better!
Ok, ok .....
Imagine the dart player looking at the dart last.
The sharp shooter looking at the gun last.
The archer looking at the arrow last.
The tennis player looking at the racket last.
The hockey player looking at the stick last.
The basketball player looking at the basket ball last.
The bowler looking at the bowling ball last.
Imagine the pitcher looking at the baseball last, or the hitter looking at the bat last.
This could go on forever, I'll just add one more .. Imagine the pool player looking at the cue ball last.
Imagine all the people
Imagine 3andstop as a qualified instructor.:sorry:
Imagine 3andstop as a French model....Bon Jure
Imagine getting accurate information from random posters on an internet forum
Imagine ....... why don't you try it and see what works best for you?
Imagine 3andstop as a qualified instructor.:sorry:
Imagine 3andstop as a French model....Bon Jure
Imagine getting accurate information from random posters on an internet forum
Imagine ....... why don't you try it and see what works best for you?
3andStop, I see your logic, but I'm not sure one sport compares directly with another. A sharp shooter looking at his gun last is more like me looking at my cue stick.
In pool you are doing two acts of aiming. You're aiming your CB at the OB, and you're aiming the tip at the CB. Aiming the tip at the CB is usually easier, but if you screw it up, the whole shot may be ruined.
Generally I'd agree, you look at your eventual target. Just wanted to point out for the OP that there are times where the shot accuracy is less important than the english accuracy.
In breaking it's important because a small error in tip placement is magnified by the force of the shot. In some positon shots (stun safeties, stun follow into a narrow position window) you need to hit just right or you either sell out or have no viable shot to continue your run. When shooting jacked up over another ball, if you put any accidental sidespin... the cue ball curves a little bit and this can cause you to miss the shot badly, or even miscue.
Personally I also like CB last for long straight in shots. Once I've set my line of aim, the only thing that can ruin these shots for me is steering the stick or accidental sidespin. So I make sure I hit dead center on the cue ball.
I think in other sports you're forced to focus on the target because either the player or the target is moving. But in pool, since everything's stationary, a few other aiming options become viable.
In pool you are doing two acts of aiming. You're aiming your CB at the OB, and you're aiming the tip at the CB. Aiming the tip at the CB is usually easier, but if you screw it up, the whole shot may be ruined.
Generally I'd agree, you look at your eventual target. Just wanted to point out for the OP that there are times where the shot accuracy is less important than the english accuracy.
In breaking it's important because a small error in tip placement is magnified by the force of the shot. In some positon shots (stun safeties, stun follow into a narrow position window) you need to hit just right or you either sell out or have no viable shot to continue your run. When shooting jacked up over another ball, if you put any accidental sidespin... the cue ball curves a little bit and this can cause you to miss the shot badly, or even miscue.
Personally I also like CB last for long straight in shots. Once I've set my line of aim, the only thing that can ruin these shots for me is steering the stick or accidental sidespin. So I make sure I hit dead center on the cue ball.
I think in other sports you're forced to focus on the target because either the player or the target is moving. But in pool, since everything's stationary, a few other aiming options become viable.
This problem will fall into two catagories:
1. Alignment.
2. Delivery.
Seperate the two of them and answers will find you.
randyg
care to give your own advice troll?
I guess i should qualify my post a little better since I have a different way of shooting. And since i don't know really anything about your above examples I don't think i could comfortably compare them to pool.
I look at both balls back and forth while I'm aiming and concentrate on the cue ball during my final back swing and then i look at the object ball when I'm positive that my tip is going to contact the exact point on the cue ball that I am aiming for. The only time I pull the trigger is when I am sure everything is lined up. Again I'm not saying it's going to work for everyone, but it is what works best for me.
thanks for taking the time to read my post
CB or OB
I have always been an OB last person. However, as my game has developed, I've had to take a slightly more nuanced approach. Here are my thoughts:
The point of looking at a target last is to improve your accuracy in hitting that target.... That is to reduce the potential for error. If you look at the OB last, by and large, you should be able to hit your intended target on the OB with more accuracy. Conversely, if you look at the CB last, you should be able to hit your intended target on the CB (with the cuestick) more accurately.
The problem is, you can only look at the CB or OB last...not both (at least not in proper focus). So which to look at? I think the answer lies in which is the more important target to hit on any particular shot. Is it more important to reduce the error on the CB target or the OB target?
For a typical medium length shot with near centerball hit, even a slight error on the OB target can result in a missed shot...whereas a slight error on the CB target generally won't result in a missed the shot (due to deflection or throw) but can result in a bad leave. On the majority of shots, the former consequence dominates the latter. And for longer shots, this is even more pronounced, because a small error on the OB gets amplified even further.
However, for other shots, errors on the CB become the dominant factor; masse's and Jumps are two obvious examples. Small errors on the CB can result in a foul...a much less desireable result than simply missing the shot, or not getting position.
Now, take the example of a very long extreme draw shot where the OB is in the jaws. Here is an example where you have a pretty large margin of error on the OB, however a minor miss on the CB can result in a miscue. I used to always look at the OB in this situation, but I've now come to the conclusion that often CB last makes more sense.
In most cases, looking at the OB last probably makes the most sense. However, for some shots (especially those where CB accuracy is paramount) CB last is oftentimes the best way to go...IMVHO.
I have always been an OB last person. However, as my game has developed, I've had to take a slightly more nuanced approach. Here are my thoughts:
The point of looking at a target last is to improve your accuracy in hitting that target.... That is to reduce the potential for error. If you look at the OB last, by and large, you should be able to hit your intended target on the OB with more accuracy. Conversely, if you look at the CB last, you should be able to hit your intended target on the CB (with the cuestick) more accurately.
The problem is, you can only look at the CB or OB last...not both (at least not in proper focus). So which to look at? I think the answer lies in which is the more important target to hit on any particular shot. Is it more important to reduce the error on the CB target or the OB target?
For a typical medium length shot with near centerball hit, even a slight error on the OB target can result in a missed shot...whereas a slight error on the CB target generally won't result in a missed the shot (due to deflection or throw) but can result in a bad leave. On the majority of shots, the former consequence dominates the latter. And for longer shots, this is even more pronounced, because a small error on the OB gets amplified even further.
However, for other shots, errors on the CB become the dominant factor; masse's and Jumps are two obvious examples. Small errors on the CB can result in a foul...a much less desireable result than simply missing the shot, or not getting position.
Now, take the example of a very long extreme draw shot where the OB is in the jaws. Here is an example where you have a pretty large margin of error on the OB, however a minor miss on the CB can result in a miscue. I used to always look at the OB in this situation, but I've now come to the conclusion that often CB last makes more sense.
In most cases, looking at the OB last probably makes the most sense. However, for some shots (especially those where CB accuracy is paramount) CB last is oftentimes the best way to go...IMVHO.
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One...I don't think the OP asked anything about snooker.
Two, if CB last is FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG...how come Ralf Souquet is a World Champion????????????
Just because a technique is not widely used doesn't mean it's "fundamentally wrong." Ever see Reyes' loopy stroke????
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EagleMan
This is a good post. Anyone who HASN'T tried CB last should do so...it will really surprise you. That said, you shouldn't use it all or even most of the time...the advantage will soon be lost, as your alignment (necessary part) will decay...soon you'll be hitting the CB very accurately, but your alignment will be off--you'll miss and because you weren't looking at the OB you won't know for sure why or how you were lined up wrong (you've got to have that for feedback to keep your alignment and PSR straight). There are some shots where you have to cinch it, but it's vital to hit the CB absolutely perfect...and your peripheral vision may not do the trick. Then CB last is a great way to hit it. Also, shooting off the bridge with CB last is the easiest way to double your proficiency at it. I don't think I've missed a shot with the granny stick in months.
CB last is an often neglected, effective tool for accuracy and control...but not for most shots, IMHO.
Ted,
IMHO It is as Mr. G eluded, it's either aim, delivery, & I'll add one related to delivery, stance &/or set-up.
In lieu of lessons to determine the problem which could certainly be beneficial, I would suggest using a striped ball (or a designed practice ball) as the cue ball & set it up wth a defined point of intended contact & then after shooting the shot check the chalk mark to see if you are actually hitting the cue where you intend, Just because you are looking at the CB last does not necessarly mean that you are hitting where you intend. If you are, then it certainly could be a fucntion of aim that is causing you to mis. If not then it is in the delivery of the cue & the culprit could be anywhere from the placement of your feet all the way through to the stroke going through your bridge which includes your grip, angle of forearm, etc,
As to the debate of CB or OB last, I would suggest & do look at the OB last except on those shots where the set-up can cause the stroke to go out of quilter, then I do look at the CB last & make a very deliberate perhaps even more controlled stroke to assure hitting the CB where I intend.
An analogy that works, for me, is the aiming of a gun. One sees both the back & front sights & aligns them & then visually places them to the desired portion of the the target that one wants to direct the bullet. Where does one look last? The back sight(bridge hand), the front site (the tip hit location on the cue ball), or the target (the contact point on the OB or the center of the ghost ball)? When focusing on one or the other, do we lose sight of the others completely or do we still see them in a periphreal manner.
If one can remain still & the sights of the gun are accurate & can deliver the bulllet to the point of the sights, one can then close one's eyes right before pulling the trigger & the bullet will still hit the taget while the shooter is looking at nothing. The same can be done in pool if the sights(aim), gun(stroke), & set up (shooter remains still) all function properly.
Sorry for the long winded rant. I hope this helps you or at least gives you food for thought & keep in mind this is just IMHO.
Best Wishes,
IMHO It is as Mr. G eluded, it's either aim, delivery, & I'll add one related to delivery, stance &/or set-up.
In lieu of lessons to determine the problem which could certainly be beneficial, I would suggest using a striped ball (or a designed practice ball) as the cue ball & set it up wth a defined point of intended contact & then after shooting the shot check the chalk mark to see if you are actually hitting the cue where you intend, Just because you are looking at the CB last does not necessarly mean that you are hitting where you intend. If you are, then it certainly could be a fucntion of aim that is causing you to mis. If not then it is in the delivery of the cue & the culprit could be anywhere from the placement of your feet all the way through to the stroke going through your bridge which includes your grip, angle of forearm, etc,
As to the debate of CB or OB last, I would suggest & do look at the OB last except on those shots where the set-up can cause the stroke to go out of quilter, then I do look at the CB last & make a very deliberate perhaps even more controlled stroke to assure hitting the CB where I intend.
An analogy that works, for me, is the aiming of a gun. One sees both the back & front sights & aligns them & then visually places them to the desired portion of the the target that one wants to direct the bullet. Where does one look last? The back sight(bridge hand), the front site (the tip hit location on the cue ball), or the target (the contact point on the OB or the center of the ghost ball)? When focusing on one or the other, do we lose sight of the others completely or do we still see them in a periphreal manner.
If one can remain still & the sights of the gun are accurate & can deliver the bulllet to the point of the sights, one can then close one's eyes right before pulling the trigger & the bullet will still hit the taget while the shooter is looking at nothing. The same can be done in pool if the sights(aim), gun(stroke), & set up (shooter remains still) all function properly.
Sorry for the long winded rant. I hope this helps you or at least gives you food for thought & keep in mind this is just IMHO.
Best Wishes,
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