Should All Skill Levels Have an Equal Chance to Win a Weekly 9-Ball Handicapped Tournament?

The APA is a special, broken case. Their method has horrible flaws.

I've seen a handicapping system where all you had to do was take a lot of innings to beat everyone and you'd get a real low rating and then you could take even more innings to beat the next guy. That is a broken system. It is possible to have a system that encourages improvement.

Another problem with the APA is that if your rating goes up, your team is broken up (23 rule). Lots of people would rather play with their friends.

Every manipulation of a fair game to create 'equity' will always be taken advantage of by unscrupulous people. Apa is no worse than any other handicapping system.

Playing by the same rules is inherently fair. Giving someone an advantage is inherently unfair. Every five-year-old child knows that. The question is: why have so many adults forgotten it?
 
I started my pool tournament play in 1982 at The White Spot in Fife, Washington. It was a Wednesday night 9 ball tournament, race to 3 on bar tables, with a $5 entry. It was a legendary weekly tournament with fields of 24-40 every week. I considered the $5 entry to be a huge bargain for lessons. I played for a year and a half before I won a beer for a 7-8 finish. Two years later I was capable of winning the tournament.
I have never been a fan of handicap tournaments. I did enjoy tournaments that had ratings based entry. B and even C rated tournaments for the smaller fish to have a chance at victory. In Sacramento in the 90's I found a weekly B tournament that got a good turn out every week. Staying under the radar and cashing enough to cover "the nut" was the challenge. 🤷‍♂️
I even found a weekend C tournament in Spokane in '03 that filled up with a field of 64 with $40 entry and a $10 side pot that contained $190. First place paid me $890. Pretty good score for a C player. 🤷‍♂️ Funny part is the person that submitted a complaint to the tournament director was the person I played in the finals.
My travels up and down the west coast led to many different varieties of tournaments. It was interesting seeing what worked in different places with different clientele. Playing Scotch Doubles with partners determined with highest and lowest paired was fun at one location. It usually resulted with a middle pair winning. 🤷‍♂️ Another location had a Sadie Hawkins tournament where the ladies drew lots and picked partners. It was fun.
Keeping the entry fee at a recreational level discouraging "the sharks" was often successful.
If you have a tournament that's working don't fix it. I have seen a couple of small local tournaments that started growing to good size fields only to be modified and then just petered out. Different formats appeal to different audiences. Just remember, it's Recreation.
 
20% wins 80% of the time. So the best 2 players in a tournament of 10 players win 80% of the tournaments. That would be discouraging for the rest of the field in a handicapped tournament.

How are the pairings for round one made? Would random pairings help?
You would think so, but here the same person wins the tournaments almost every week if he shows up. The tournaments are still full and every week people try to come do better. There are plenty of tournaments in town but the ones he shows up to are always the most popular and its major gossip when someone upsets him. It also encourages everyone to get better.

Why should weak players expect to beat strong players with the same percentage chance? That baffles me, if you want to win at something you need to get better, otherwise what's the reward? If I beat some guy because of a handicap, that doesn't even feel like winning to me.
 
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Every manipulation of a fair game to create 'equity' will always be taken advantage of by unscrupulous people. Apa is no worse than any other handicapping system.

Playing by the same rules is inherently fair. Giving someone an advantage is inherently unfair. Every five-year-old child knows that. The question is: why have so many adults forgotten it?
Its the butthurt 'everyone gets a prize' mentality. Life is tough, so is pool. Get over it and go practice you whining babies.
 
I have 0 chance of winning a tournament and have no interest in handicapped tournaments. I want to win every match on my own, through my own improvement. I had my best finish this weekend tied at 13th out of 48. By far the most fun I’ve ever had playing. I’m still dead money and I could care less. Ill keep donating to the pot just to be able to match up with better players and every once in a while, come out on top of a match
 
OK, here’s the dilemma - I will absolutely not allow a low ranked player to be able to win a match by winning 1 game on one lucky shot or one 9 ball hung in the pocket. And if we make the races any longer than to 5 or 6, we end up being here way too late in to the night / morning, even though we start matches at 6:30 PM.

That is why all our matchups are either 3/3, 4/3, 4/2, 5/2 or 6/2.

Those are very fair races. My son uses the Fargo setup for his in-house leagues, and this is exactly what we end up with. for matches. No one complains about the games they need. Even when I play a 5-2 or 6-2 match there are very few times I feel it is not fair to me or to the other player, although I do end up winning quite a few of them. Probably because for me to win, I need to mess up very late in the game leaving them an easy finish, while for me to win I can simply run out from the break (which is maybe one of 6 times that happens) , or have several turns after their multiple mistakes giving me more chances to win or ball in hand after I play safe. I feel if I make more than one mistake in a rack in a race like that, and I lost the game, then I deserve to lose.
 
The room owner needs to decide which customers to cater to. I have yet to see a successful buisness that caters to pool players.
So at the White Spot the tournaments did turn up a considerable number of uh frugal players. Ice water and no tip fir at least 1 for sure. Cocomo. Cocomo was all over me on my first night to the White Spot. A $40 lesson. I did learn quickly though. 😉 One was enough for that lesson.
So the owner needs to consider which customers they want. Then provide events that appeal to the same. The any pocket asshole seems to be providing that. 🤷‍♂️: As I wipe a tear:😢
 
Every manipulation of a fair game to create 'equity' will always be taken advantage of by unscrupulous people. Apa is no worse than any other handicapping system.

Playing by the same rules is inherently fair. Giving someone an advantage is inherently unfair. Every five-year-old child knows that. The question is: why have so many adults forgotten it?
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if TD's want participation in the tournaments they run that an open tournament wont fill the field. We have plenty of good players up here that bitch about handicapped tournaments but don't show up to play if the field is too strong. Besides, if you are that good the handicap really shouldnt matter.
 
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if TD's want participation in the tournaments they run that an open tournament wont fill the field. We have plenty of good players up here that bitch about handicapped tournaments but don't show up to play if the field is too strong. Besides, if you are that good the handicap really shouldnt matter.
Truth.

People need to remember that tournaments' intents are not to put money in people's pockets.

They exist to facilitate participation. Asses on tables.
 
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if TD's want participation in the tournaments they run that an open tournament wont fill the field. We have plenty of good players up here that bitch about handicapped tournaments but don't show up to play if the field is too strong. Besides, if you are that good the handicap really shouldnt matter.

Been to many non handicapped tourneys that were full.
 
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if TD's want participation in the tournaments they run that an open tournament wont fill the field. We have plenty of good players up here that bitch about handicapped tournaments but don't show up to play if the field is too strong. Besides, if you are that good the handicap really shouldnt matter.
To clarify, every few months we also have smaller field, considerably higher $ entry, invitation only tournaments for the high level players, with no handicaps. We are fortunate enough to have 10+ regulars whose skill levels are close enough to have a chance to do well in these non-handicapped tournaments.
 
Make the spots too big and you'll alienate the better players readily even if they are still winning mostly. 9 ball is just a poor game for this when the skill difference is big because the weaker player generally only wins when they fluke 9s and such.
 
Their is many levels of suckiness in pool. The cream needs to rise to the top, you need to force the weaker players to play better.
 
Depends on your goals. Do you want more bodies in the room? Or since you youself are a good player, do you want the "players" to have the edge. If you want more bodies, you could even give the edge to the lower ranked players.

Also the comment that the good players have paid their dues is not necessary correct. A 2 month beginner, vs any good player, sure, I'll agree. But an average player might have paid way more dues than the good player, but has about reached his limit of what his body can do.
 
Every manipulation of a fair game to create 'equity' will always be taken advantage of by unscrupulous people. Apa is no worse than any other handicapping system.

Playing by the same rules is inherently fair. Giving someone an advantage is inherently unfair. Every five-year-old child knows that. The question is: why have so many adults forgotten it?
All that is true. However as a room owner, which the OP is, if every tournament was scratch, his room would be empty. Most people want a "chance" to keep coming back.
 
I have 0 chance of winning a tournament and have no interest in handicapped tournaments. I want to win every match on my own, through my own improvement. I had my best finish this weekend tied at 13th out of 48. By far the most fun I’ve ever had playing. I’m still dead money and I could care less. Ill keep donating to the pot just to be able to match up with better players and every once in a while, come out on top of a match
Thank you for your service.
 
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All that is true. However as a room owner, which the OP is, if every tournament was scratch, his room would be empty. Most people want a "chance" to keep coming back.

A good compromise is to have equal numbers of tournaments (non-handicapped) and masturbation events (handicapped 'tourneys').

I have no problem with owners and 'players' wanting handicapped tourneys. I'm just tired of all the tourneys going to handicapped.
 
A good compromise is to have equal numbers of tournaments (non-handicapped) and masturbation events (handicapped 'tourneys').

I have no problem with owners and 'players' wanting handicapped tourneys. I'm just tired of all the tourneys going to handicapped.
yeah, agree.

Funny, the room I played most in had a $5 (plus loser pays time for both players) weekly tournament. It went on for 20 years and was packed every week with 64 players. Single elimination 9 ball and a very wide handicap. All the races were to 5. The most weight was 5 out and the breaks, plus 2 on the wire on a race to 5. We had pro's (Corey and a few guys real close to him in the late 90s) all the way to bangers.

At the same time, we had a once monthly scratch event for $30. That rarely got 16 players, and sometimes not even enough showed to have it. Strange, just the way it is.
 
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