Should be a foul if your cue tip ever touches the cloth...including rails?

WildWing said:
Because backspin on the cue ball quicker imparts forward spin on the object ball. That is from the mouth of the "Babe." I couldn't argue with him. A modern day example may be Efren. Even if he's not drawing the cue ball, he cues very low. Similar technique.
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Oh, backspin - sure, any spin reduces the chance of a skid. Thought you meant just addressing the ball with the tip on the cloth did it.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Oh, backspin - sure, any spin reduces the chance of a skid. Thought you meant just addressing the ball with the tip on the cloth did it.

pj
chgo
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You have now achieved Zen. Even if you want to follow the cue ball a bit, it's better to start out with a low cue attitude, keeps the cue ball on a straighter path. Force follow, of course, totally different. You need to hit high on that.

Anyhow, plenty of reasons to put the cue tip on the cloth, rail or whatever.
 
WildWing said:
You have now achieved Zen. Even if you want to follow the cue ball a bit, it's better to start out with a low cue attitude, keeps the cue ball on a straighter path. Force follow, of course, totally different. You need to hit high on that.

Anyhow, plenty of reasons to put the cue tip on the cloth, rail or whatever.
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We are talking about intentional marking like those that carefully position chalk cubes on the rail. Once might be an accident, when I see it happen over and over I call people on positioning chalk. If I see them moving the cue stick around a lot or rubbing back and forth with the tip on the rail where a bank or kick is going or on the table where it indicates where to hit the cue ball on a tough shot I consider that more than accidental too.

I never have called getting chalk on the table or when shooting, it is the convenient earlier marking I object to. Many gamblers will try little cheats. Then they will keep doing them until called on them. Great protests of innocence but they quit bending the rules too.
 
ShootingArts said:
We are talking about intentional marking like those that carefully position chalk cubes on the rail. Once might be an accident, when I see it happen over and over I call people on positioning chalk. If I see them moving the cue stick around a lot or rubbing back and forth with the tip on the rail where a bank or kick is going or on the table where it indicates where to hit the cue ball on a tough shot I consider that more than accidental too.

I never have called getting chalk on the table or when shooting, it is the convenient earlier marking I object to. Many gamblers will try little cheats. Then they will keep doing them until called on them. Great protests of innocence but they quit bending the rules too.
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Perhaps, but it could be they're trying to mark the wrong spot, and doing themselves more harm than good. I don't see it as any big deal. More chalk is deposited on the bed and rails of the cloth by striking the cue ball, rather than putting the tip down on it. Much ado about nothing.
 
There is an older gentleman that I have been playing on various teams with who will place the tip of the cue behind the object ball to mentally "mark" his point. A couple of times the opposing team would try to call foul claiming he was marking the table. Their arguments always went away when I would politely ask them to show me the mark he made on the table.
 
WildWing said:
Because backspin on the cue ball quicker imparts forward spin on the object ball. That is from the mouth of the "Babe." I couldn't argue with him. A modern day example may be Efren. Even if he's not drawing the cue ball, he cues very low. Similar technique.
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OR, it could be that he cues so low because that is exactly where the center of the cueball is, you know, at the bottom. I agree with PJ, makes no sense.
 
Renegade_56 said:
OR, it could be that he cues so low because that is exactly where the center of the cueball is, you know, at the bottom. I agree with PJ, makes no sense.
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No, he cues way lower than the center of the cueball, more like right on the cloth. It's why object ball don't skid with Efren.
 
WildWing said:
Perhaps, but it could be they're trying to mark the wrong spot, and doing themselves more harm than good. I don't see it as any big deal. More chalk is deposited on the bed and rails of the cloth by striking the cue ball, rather than putting the tip down on it. Much ado about nothing.
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Seventy-five cent question: If someone picked up a piece of chalk and said in advance they were marking these locations would you object or would you let them place bold chalk marks to guide their shot?

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Seventy-five cent question: If someone picked up a piece of chalk and said in advance they were marking these locations would you object or would you let them place bold chalk marks to guide their shot?

Hu
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I'd let him go ahead and mark a spot. Chances are, he'd be marking the wrong spot, given differences in temperature, humidity, age of rails and cloth, etc. If you have skill and are getting used to the table, you know how it plays, rather than placing markers.

If an opponent wanted to do that, I'd say be my guest. Mark every shot, or the whole table. He'd confuse himself to death, and wouldn't account for english applied, and he would be a mess by the middle of the match. You've just described a bad player.
 
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WildWing said:
I'd let him go ahead and mark a spot. Chances are, he'd be marking the wrong spot, given differences in temperature, humidity, age of rails and cloth, etc. If you have skill and are getting used to the table, you know how it plays, rather than placing markers.

If an opponent wanted to do that, I'd say be my guest. Mark every shot, or the whole table. He'd confuse himself to death, and wouldn't account for english applied, and he would be a mess by the middle of the match. You've just described a bad player.
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You are forgetting that it is illegal in every rule set I know of... even in APA. APA does allow to set a chalk on the wooden part of rail, but that is it.
 
WildWing said:
No, he cues way lower than the center of the cueball, more like right on the cloth. It's why object ball don't skid with Efren.
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They are not hitting the cue ball that far below center, they cue below center probably because from their vantage point that is how they find the center of the cue ball, judging where the cue ball and cloth meet.
 
WildWing said:
I'd let him go ahead and mark a spot. Chances are, he'd be marking the wrong spot, given differences in temperature, humidity, age of rails and cloth, etc. If you have skill and are getting used to the table, you know how it plays, rather than placing markers.

If an opponent wanted to do that, I'd say be my guest. Mark every shot, or the whole table. He'd confuse himself to death, and wouldn't account for english applied, and he would be a mess by the middle of the match. You've just described a bad player.
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I agree. Bank shots and kick shots are so sensitive to speed and spin, that I see very little advantage for a player marking the cushion for either. If a player has to do that, they are not likely to make the bank shot anyway.

Most good players know by feel exactly where they need to hit the ball, and the rail sites rarely are even necessary for them other than possibly as a reference point.
 
buckshotshoey said:
Zoom in and play at slower speed. It doesnt look like the tip ever touches the cloth. Just ferrule.
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Given that a cue but-end has to be higher than the rail, and tapers (rather linearly) all the way to the smaller tip. It is impossible for the ferrule to hit the cloth without the tip also hitting the cloth. Pure geometry.
 
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