Should Corey be punished in RENO for being smart.

SUPERSTAR

SUPERSTAR

I am Keyser Söze
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As taken from the AZ headline.
http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=6087

Moore won a testy match with Corey Deuel to close his Saturday night. Deuel had been using his "control break" all event long and Moore made it clear early on that he was not going to sit in his chair and watch Deuel dominate the match with his break. Words were exchanged with Moore stating that he wanted to be outplayed instead of outracked and Deuel quickly answered that he was doing nothing against the rules in any way.

Scott Smith was brought in to handle the debate and Smith racked most of the games for the rest of the match. The dispute may have gotten the better of Deuel as he struggled with makeable shots and Moore went on to win 9-6.

Why, when someone is within the rules of the venue, are they punished for exploiting them in their own way.

Were there any witnesses to this argument?
Was it a Shark move, or was it legit?
 
I did not see this incident but I have watched Corey play many times. He has a good temperment and represents himself and his teachers well IMO. He has taken plenty of heat over the years for applying strategy based upon the limits of the rules...that's Ok with me.

Again, admitting that I wasn't there, I have seen many other players make moves that start with criticising their opponent's break or rack.
 
But the break is THE most important shot in the game.

By exploiting THAT shot, Corey IS effectively outplaying his opponent.

If Stevie doesn't have the discipline to practice racking the balls in a specific order to know where every ball is going to go, why is his complaint accommodated?

Sounds like a shark move to me.

If your scared that you can't beat the guy when he's within the rules, you shouldn't be playing pool for your living.
 
I wasn't there, but I've heard a lot of players complaining about Corey's break.

I think Corey has learned to analyze the rack, and is aware of what opportunities each type of rack provides. Corey has proven that a slug rack is very difficult to produce, if the breaker knows enough about the rack.

I don't think Corey should be punished for having greater knowledge in a certain area, I just think the other pros need to learn to do what Corey does. (It's like hating on Efren because he kicks better than anyone else!)

The control break will always be better for the players than the "hit and hope" break. It may not be as exciting, BUT, since when has pool been an exciting spectator sport?

If you can drop the corner ball and play shape on the 1 consistently, you're going to be a deadly 9 ball player, even with subpar runout skills. (Not saying that Corey's skills are subpar!)

I think that if Corey wasn't breaking any rules (And there's no reason to believe he was), then there is no controversy. Stevie was whining, in my opinion, because he knows how difficult it is to fade that "control" break.

I really don't see the problem here.
 
rack your own?

As long as it is within the rules of the particular event Corey's break is his own business. His racks are something else again. Letting Corey rack his own without constantly checking behind him is foolish. Corey is a very smart breaker however he is also a rack mechanic. Easier on all concerned if an independent racker is used.

Hu



SUPERSTAR said:
As taken from the AZ headline.
http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=6087

Moore won a testy match with Corey Deuel to close his Saturday night. Deuel had been using his "control break" all event long and Moore made it clear early on that he was not going to sit in his chair and watch Deuel dominate the match with his break. Words were exchanged with Moore stating that he wanted to be outplayed instead of outracked and Deuel quickly answered that he was doing nothing against the rules in any way.

Scott Smith was brought in to handle the debate and Smith racked most of the games for the rest of the match. The dispute may have gotten the better of Deuel as he struggled with makeable shots and Moore went on to win 9-6.

Why, when someone is within the rules of the venue, are they punished for exploiting them in their own way.

Were there any witnesses to this argument?
Was it a Shark move, or was it legit?
Click to expand...
 
But then that just falls back on Stevie for not knowing how to rack the balls for himself.
That IS the whole purpose of rack your own.
YOU rack them for yourself.
If you don't get up and check the other guys rack, then it's YOUR fault right?
 
SUPERSTAR said:
But the break is THE most important shot in the game.

By exploiting THAT shot, Corey IS effectively outplaying his opponent.

If Stevie doesn't have the discipline to practice racking the balls in a specific order to know where every ball is going to go, why is his complaint accommodated?

Sounds like a shark move to me.

If your scared that you can't beat the guy when he's within the rules, you shouldn't be playing pool for your living.
Click to expand...
I agree mostly with your position. Though sugesting that Moore should rack a certain way would be breaking the rules. The rules prohibit pattern racking.

Everything else is right on.

The bottom line is Corey is NOT breaking any rules. If people do not like it, that is their problem, not Coreys. I actually give him credit. You should use EVERYTHING in your power ( within the rules) to gain advantage. He is complying 100% with the rules. End of story.


Jw
 
Soft break is within the rules and ok with me,

HOWEVER,

setting the balls in a set order in the rack is NOT within the rules. It is suppose to be random racking of the balls. So if Corey is setting the balls in the same order every time then that is cheating.

Rack your own sucks! People are setting the racks and leaving back two balls loose.

o well.
 
Corey's break

Does anyone think Corey was moving on the break??
I know 3 or 4 of his regular opponents & friends and none have ever implied Corey was doing anything wrong....
If you eliminate "rack your own" you open the door for players claiming someone put the rack on them
 
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I watched it and it was fully within Stevie's rights to have the TD rack.

It did shark Corey as he missed many easy shots thereafter.

Russ.......
 
poolhustler said:
I watched it and it was fully within Stevie's rights to have the TD rack.

It did shark Corey as he missed many easy shots thereafter.

Russ.......
Click to expand...

Now the question is, was the argument a SHARK move?

Hmmmmm.

I mean, this wouldn't be the first time i've heard of Stevie getting into an argument at a pro venue.

One has to wonder.
 
Make it ten ball!!

This is another reason why 9-ball has outlived its welcome. Competition these days demands a tougher game and ten ball is the answer. 9 ball still has a place for weekly tournaments and leagues IMHO.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Now the question is, was the argument a SHARK move?

Hmmmmm.

I mean, this wouldn't be the first time i've heard of Stevie getting into an argument at a pro venue.

One has to wonder.
Click to expand...

You know what? I am with corey on his rack/breaks. It does not violate any rules. As I said ANYTHING within the rules to gain advantage is fine by me.

On further thought, even if Moore was trying to shark corey by having the TD rack, he did not break any rules either! Maybe he was just trying to offset coreys advantageof the control break. It worked for him. Moore did not break any rules either ( that I have heard yet). So they BOTH were doing whatever they could to gain advantage, and NEITHER broke any rules. Moore just came out on top.

They are both pros who know the rules. They are both trying like hell to come out on top. As long as they stay within the rules, I say "play on!"


Jw
 
can I rack them my way?

SUPERSTAR said:
Now the question is, was the argument a SHARK move?

Hmmmmm.

I mean, this wouldn't be the first time i've heard of Stevie getting into an argument at a pro venue.

One has to wonder.
Click to expand...

At what point does a rack become illegal in your mind? Stacking balls in a certain order? Deliberately creating gaps where you want them?

There is always a potential issue with Corey racking his own. The other player can check every rack and argue over every rack or they can have the TD or his designee do the racking. I think Moore did the smart thing. I wouldn't fight over every rack if I could avoid it either.

Corey has played many a competition with a neutral racker. I can see no reason for that sharking him unless it interfered with his plans. A legal rack should not be any impediment to legal play.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
At what point does a rack become illegal in your mind? Stacking balls in a certain order? Deliberately creating gaps where you want them?

There is always a potential issue with Corey racking his own. The other player can check every rack and argue over every rack or they can have the TD or his designee do the racking. I think Moore did the smart thing. I wouldn't fight over every rack if I could avoid it either.

Corey has played many a competition with a neutral racker. I can see no reason for that sharking him unless it interfered with his plans. A legal rack should not be any impediment to legal play.

Hu
Click to expand...


Agreed!!:thumbup:
 
Big C said:
This is another reason why 9-ball has outlived its welcome. Competition these days demands a tougher game and ten ball is the answer. 9 ball still has a place for weekly tournaments and leagues IMHO.
Click to expand...
..........:thumbup:
 
help

Need to find out this game played on a pool table and there is a board that fits on the table with holes so the balls can be shot up on it and they fall in the holes .I need the name of the game and the boards name and a site to learn the rules PLease its driving me Mad.
 
racking in 9 ball

opponent racking causes problems
rack your own causes problems

then let there be a third party rack and check the rack each time....

In the just concluded Finals of the Reno Open.......
I watched Mike Davis break and make 2-3 balls every time for about 5 or 6 racks in a row with Scott Smith racking and Leonardo Andam never got up to check the rack.........and Mike Davis was down 7-2 and ended up winning 9-7....quite evident that the break and runs won it for him......
 
since "random" is open to interpretation, why don't they just make a rule that you have to rack the balls in numerical order with the 9 in the middle? whats the harm in that?
 
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