Post a video of you doing it and I leave AZB forever.
Should the TAR table stay as is or go to standard pockets? You choose.
- Thread starter JCIN
- Start date
Post a video of you doing it and I leave AZB forever.
Watched all tar matches on that table
Justin,
I have paid to watch all of the matches on that table, and have noticed that the winner is most always the person that jumps out to an early lead. It seems the person that gets ahead 5 or 6 games, must smartly manage their game from that point on, and they will get to the finish line first.
This past weekend, as Shane pulled ahead on the second night, it was if the outcome was predetermined. Every viewer new the best Darren could do was trade games on that table. For the first time ever, I turned off the broadcast with at least an hour remaining because it was over. I'm not bashing Darren as I believe that he is one of the very best players in the world and am a huge fan of his game.
I find it difficult to write this because I have always been a huge proponent of tighter pockets, but this table is too difficult. We're not seeing the normal ebbs and flows of matches, which makes it less interesting. I do not agree with moving to 4.5 inch pockets, and feel their is a better compromise somewhere in the middle.
Thanks Justin and TAR for bringing these matches to us!
Brian Brekke
Justin,
I have paid to watch all of the matches on that table, and have noticed that the winner is most always the person that jumps out to an early lead. It seems the person that gets ahead 5 or 6 games, must smartly manage their game from that point on, and they will get to the finish line first.
This past weekend, as Shane pulled ahead on the second night, it was if the outcome was predetermined. Every viewer new the best Darren could do was trade games on that table. For the first time ever, I turned off the broadcast with at least an hour remaining because it was over. I'm not bashing Darren as I believe that he is one of the very best players in the world and am a huge fan of his game.
I find it difficult to write this because I have always been a huge proponent of tighter pockets, but this table is too difficult. We're not seeing the normal ebbs and flows of matches, which makes it less interesting. I do not agree with moving to 4.5 inch pockets, and feel their is a better compromise somewhere in the middle.
Thanks Justin and TAR for bringing these matches to us!
Brian Brekke
I will normally come down on the "tighter is better" side of these pocket size debates, but in this case I tend not to. I think, for a couple of reasons, the TAR table should have standard pockets.
One thing to keep in mind is that top shelf players put huge emphasis on equipment, and I would be concerned about the possibility of a player or sponsor declining to take part because they, for whatever reason, think the table might be a little gaffy. At least if the table is a standard Diamond, that particular debate is quashed from the start.
In addition to that, one aspect I enjoy most about the TAR matches is getting to see players who I normally only see in tournament action get down and play a lengthy set for the cash. I want to see how well a great tournament player holds up this situation, and having the additional variable of non-standard pocket size muddies the water a little bit. If the table is a standard Diamond, and one player turns in a significantly weaker performance than usual, it's probably safe to chalk it up to added pressure brought on by the format, and I'm very interested in that sort of thing.
Aaron
One thing to keep in mind is that top shelf players put huge emphasis on equipment, and I would be concerned about the possibility of a player or sponsor declining to take part because they, for whatever reason, think the table might be a little gaffy. At least if the table is a standard Diamond, that particular debate is quashed from the start.
In addition to that, one aspect I enjoy most about the TAR matches is getting to see players who I normally only see in tournament action get down and play a lengthy set for the cash. I want to see how well a great tournament player holds up this situation, and having the additional variable of non-standard pocket size muddies the water a little bit. If the table is a standard Diamond, and one player turns in a significantly weaker performance than usual, it's probably safe to chalk it up to added pressure brought on by the format, and I'm very interested in that sort of thing.
Aaron
I vote for standard pockets. I don't think there's any reason to have pockets tighter than 4 1/2. Just look at tournament play. There's no 10 packs ran in tournaments so that says to me the tables are not easy. Sure you'll see 5, 6, maybe 7 strung together but that's what is entertaining. I think the tight pockets take that away. Personally I'd rather see them playing on standard pockets.
Im My opinion there are two ways to look at this.
1. PLAYERS: As players watching we can respect what the tight table does to the playes and how they have to adapt. You can see the players struggle on the table, then when they do run out, you can appreciate how great they play to make that run. This tight table will seperate the men from the boys. Also, you know the better player likes the tight table, or the player who style best fits a real tight table. Shane has a great touch. He rolls the balls in. He will fair better than most who have power games. I do appreiciate how great the players have to play to run out.
2. BUSINESS: If you are gonna look at this from a money point of view. You have to want the larger pockets. More viewers for Tar. Means more money for Tar. Which could lead to more matches. The last Tar match was on at the pool room. The real players in the pool room, of course sweated the match out. But your beginners, bangers, and even rising players where making comments on how bad the guys where playing. I think it has to do with the wow affect. If these guys where putting packs together. More people would have been like "where can I buy this match when I go home" , "Will these guys play again tommrow" . I love to see a player get smacked in the mouth and get right back up and come out swinging. What was the most racks broke and run in a row? I dont know for sure. But, it did not look like many. These two players are two of the best in the world. They need to ba able to spread there wings.
With all that being said: TAR is great and has done many great things for pool. I would not question anything you guys have done. It is tuff to make a living. What ever you decide to do, I think will be the right thing. Me and my friends support you guys and will continue to do so.
1. PLAYERS: As players watching we can respect what the tight table does to the playes and how they have to adapt. You can see the players struggle on the table, then when they do run out, you can appreciate how great they play to make that run. This tight table will seperate the men from the boys. Also, you know the better player likes the tight table, or the player who style best fits a real tight table. Shane has a great touch. He rolls the balls in. He will fair better than most who have power games. I do appreiciate how great the players have to play to run out.
2. BUSINESS: If you are gonna look at this from a money point of view. You have to want the larger pockets. More viewers for Tar. Means more money for Tar. Which could lead to more matches. The last Tar match was on at the pool room. The real players in the pool room, of course sweated the match out. But your beginners, bangers, and even rising players where making comments on how bad the guys where playing. I think it has to do with the wow affect. If these guys where putting packs together. More people would have been like "where can I buy this match when I go home" , "Will these guys play again tommrow" . I love to see a player get smacked in the mouth and get right back up and come out swinging. What was the most racks broke and run in a row? I dont know for sure. But, it did not look like many. These two players are two of the best in the world. They need to ba able to spread there wings.
With all that being said: TAR is great and has done many great things for pool. I would not question anything you guys have done. It is tuff to make a living. What ever you decide to do, I think will be the right thing. Me and my friends support you guys and will continue to do so.
ChrisBanks
Banned
How is it entertaining to watch the shooter smack the rail 3 diamonds up and the ball still goes in? Who cares if he runs out? Do you think we didn't notice that he shot poorly?
The Mosconi Cup was played on a Diamond with 4.5" pockets and there were plenty of missed shots by the best players in the world. There were also a lot of great shots that may never have been attempted if the pockets were tight. Granted, its near impossible to emulate the pressure/excitement , but from a viewership and marketing standpoint to the "average" viewer the 4.5" would be the way to go. When I say "average" viewer, I don't mean the masses on AZ that appreciate the tight pockets and what kind of difference that means to an upper level player. I mean those players that may play league and watch tourneys in their home rooms. Those that know the top players and watch most of the ppv matches. To them, they'd rather see a more offensive wide open game and don't necessarily understand the nuances and differences in a tighter table. IMO
That's exactly my opinion Danny. I love the US Open Golf Tournament. I love watching the best players in the world struggle to make par, but the casual golfer couldn't care less and doesn't understand why the course setup makes such a difference. All they see is "Tiger Woods is +3?" Wtf?"
hy·per·bo·le
[hahy-pur-buh-lee]
noun, Rhetoric.
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “smack the rails 3 diamonds up and the ball still goes in”
I don't mind missed shots, I don't mind a lot of misses. What does bother me is either when balls go that shouldn't or when balls hang that should go. I think the current setup has it right; if you hit a ball accurately and well then it will go, if you get lazy the table will catch you out.
I'll second (or is that third, fourth, or fifth) the opinions about revolting against extraordinarily tight tables. Pool is way more exciting when an aggressive game is encouraged, end of story. Also, I find it laughable that the standard Diamond Pro cut pockets are now considered loose by some! The data supplied by AZB'er Atlarge, at least to me, do not support the opinions that the equipment is too easy.
In the end, what Pro Players, TAR, merchants, etc SHOULD be trying to achieve is to expand the $ pie available to all. Shrinking the pocket sizes from the tight, but fair Diamond Pro cut pockets works against this end. It should be noted that AZB may well be the bulk of TAR's market. However, AZB is a small and fanatical community. What is really needed is to expand viewership to more casual players so that everyone can make more $. Again, reducing pocket size will only bore these players to tears and eliminate any hope of retaining paying viewers.
I played some with John Brumback over the weekend and I discussed this very issue. He held a similar view and basically said the 10 foot tables are counterproductive, pockets tighter than a Diamond Pro are counterproductive, and each works to reduce the popularity of the game and reduce viewership. He basically said that pool is pool, and if you want something else, well, then there's snooker...
Does anyone remember the SVB match vs. Scott Frost? I remember in the prematch interview SVB predicted that the high run for the match would be something like 13 racks or so. I think the actual count came in at maybe a five pack or something like that...does anyone remember?
Also, about these thousands that can string 6 packs at will on a valley bar box, well, have 'em come over. I'd be interested in staking the ghost against your player. The match could be a race to 7, give the ghost 6 games on the wire and you can not take ball in hand after the break. Who do you wanna put in this game?
I voted for the 1/8, but a couple of posters brought up interesting points about using 1/2.
I think that if you go back to 4 1/2, the race should go back to a longer length. Not saying that guys are going to string 6 and 7 racks, but I think you'll see more 2-4 packs, and those can add up pretty quick. I agree that this makes for more dramatic momentum swings in a match.
I disagree that the best TAR match was 10 ball on the 10' micro-pocket table. It was brutal watching them struggle to run a rack on an open table and sweat out a 6' shot down the rail.
Another option (cuz I love options)...I remember the straight pool challenge a few years ago with Schmidt and Sigel that was played on slower cloth, and how there were still runs but not monster runs. What about using 4 1/2" pockets with slower cloth?
Keep up the good work on TAR.
Mike
I think that if you go back to 4 1/2, the race should go back to a longer length. Not saying that guys are going to string 6 and 7 racks, but I think you'll see more 2-4 packs, and those can add up pretty quick. I agree that this makes for more dramatic momentum swings in a match.
I disagree that the best TAR match was 10 ball on the 10' micro-pocket table. It was brutal watching them struggle to run a rack on an open table and sweat out a 6' shot down the rail.
Another option (cuz I love options)...I remember the straight pool challenge a few years ago with Schmidt and Sigel that was played on slower cloth, and how there were still runs but not monster runs. What about using 4 1/2" pockets with slower cloth?
Keep up the good work on TAR.
Mike
I say 4.5" pockets. I find pool to be more entertaining when there is some room to cheat the pockets or incentive to attempt a difficult shot. If the format is a long race with alternating breaks, I don't see any problem with having players alternate running out until there is a game situation that really calls for a defensive shot.
4.5" pockets still present enough of a challenge to keep anyone from getting too lazy, but are loose enough that they don't become a focal point of the match.
4.5" pockets still present enough of a challenge to keep anyone from getting too lazy, but are loose enough that they don't become a focal point of the match.
ChrisBanks
Banned
charlietango7
Registered
4" pockets....
I think the pockets should be 4" and the tables 10'... All these players seem to be getting better... if no one ever misses... then all the racks will be won by the break... maybe just switch to 10' snooker tables and get it over with...
I think the pockets should be 4" and the tables 10'... All these players seem to be getting better... if no one ever misses... then all the racks will be won by the break... maybe just switch to 10' snooker tables and get it over with...