Should US Pool Players Audit BCA

crosseyedjoe

crosseyedjoe

Anywhere but here
Silver Member
Given that BCA is the governing body of pool in America, should UPA members have the right to ask for an audit on where the BCA's money is going?

It seems that BCA is NOT TRYING HARD to send the qualifying players to WPC. Players are left on their own.
 
Last edited:
crosseyedjoe said:
Given that BCA is the governing body of pool in America, should UPA members have the right to ask for an audit on where the BCA's money is going? It seems that BCA is NOT TRYING HARD to send the qualifying players to WPC. Players are left on their own.
Click to expand...

On what basis do you reckon the BCA has any obligation to disclose details of its budget to anyone? Remember, over the years, numerous pro players have sat on the BCA Board of Directors, which has given them a chance to sell their ideas during the BCA budgeting process. It is defintely disappointing that the BCA, unlike some of the foreign govderning bodies of pool, doesn't choose to spend money to send American players to the WPC, but it's their decision to make, and any suggestion that they need to defend that decision is, in my opinion, a little over the top,
 
First, the BCA is a trade organization. It doesn't send players anywhere.

Secondly, the UPA is probably not a member of the BCA.

Thirdly, the BCA publishes a report each year as to where it's money goes.

Fourthly, there is no "governing body" of pool in the United States. There are plenty of organizations large and small who like to claim that title but none who have earned it.

Fifthly, The BCA is only responsible to tell the WPA who the players are that get automatic spots in the World's. They have tuned that job over to the UPA who maintains the only ranking list of pro players that the BCA recognizes.

There is virtually no way that the BCA is going to spend one penny of it's money to pay for players to participate in pool tournaments. And the United States nor any of the States is likely to either. Unlike the Phillipines and Taiwan - we have more world class athletes in much higher profile, more politically correct, richer (in terms of revenue and voters), sports. Pool is not considered to be anything more than a way to pass the time.

99.99% of the people in the United States could care less who Efren Reyes is and whether Dennis Orcullo can beat him or not. The Billiard Industry as a whole could care less.

The only thing the Billiard Industry cares about is selling more pool tables. And that happens in the absence of a Pro Tour, in the absence of World Champions. That happens because people buy bigger houses and go to the local billiard supply place and buy a table. So, the US Billiard Industry gets no benefit whatsoever by sponsoring players to play abroad. And because of that you won't find the only industry trade group spending it's money to send players abroad.

The BCA has declared itself to not be interested in promoting pool anyway. They have by their own admission become a trade show promotion entity who primary (and possibly sole) focus is on enticing more companies to purchase temporary real estate at it's annual trade show.

And that is why the pro players in the United States have both no hope of support by the BCA nor any right to audit or demand any.
 
John Barton said:
First, the BCA is a trade organization. It doesn't send players anywhere.

Secondly, the UPA is probably not a member of the BCA.

Thirdly, the BCA publishes a report each year as to where it's money goes.

Fourthly, there is no "governing body" of pool in the United States. There are plenty of organizations large and small who like to claim that title but none who have earned it.

Fifthly, The BCA is only responsible to tell the WPA who the players are that get automatic spots in the World's. They have tuned that job over to the UPA who maintains the only ranking list of pro players that the BCA recognizes.

There is virtually no way that the BCA is going to spend one penny of it's money to pay for players to participate in pool tournaments. And the United States nor any of the States is likely to either. Unlike the Phillipines and Taiwan - we have more world class athletes in much higher profile, more politically correct, richer (in terms of revenue and voters), sports. Pool is not considered to be anything more than a way to pass the time.

99.99% of the people in the United States could care less who Efren Reyes is and whether Dennis Orcullo can beat him or not. The Billiard Industry as a whole could care less.

The only thing the Billiard Industry cares about is selling more pool tables. And that happens in the absence of a Pro Tour, in the absence of World Champions. That happens because people buy bigger houses and go to the local billiard supply place and buy a table. So, the US Billiard Industry gets no benefit whatsoever by sponsoring players to play abroad. And because of that you won't find the only industry trade group spending it's money to send players abroad.

The BCA has declared itself to not be interested in promoting pool anyway. They have by their own admission become a trade show promotion entity who primary (and possibly sole) focus is on enticing more companies to purchase temporary real estate at it's annual trade show.

And that is why the pro players in the United States have both no hope of support by the BCA nor any right to audit or demand any.
Click to expand...


So very well stated. Thanks....randyg
 
So why no one is challenging BCA's position in WPA? Maybe, because everyone wants to talk but really don't want to do the walk?

I think APA should replace BCA.
 
crosseyedjoe said:
So why no one is challenging BCA's position in WPA? Maybe, because everyone wants to talk but really don't want to do the walk?

I think APA should replace BCA.
Click to expand...

Well it's primarily because most of us have jobs that require our attention so that we can maintain our living standards.

It's far easier to to think about and talk about what "should" be done than to do it.

Then there are the very real and practical aspects of "walking the walk". It's not nearly as easy as in the movies.

To challenge the status quo means one has to either infiltrate from within the BCA to changes it's direction, loudly protest from outside the BCA, or to create an alternative.

Infiltrating from within means not only being in the industry but also developing enough alliances and support to get elected to and be able to influence the board of directors. This is a many year process that is really not open to the average enthusiast.

Protesting from outside is something that we can do but unless the protests are coming from pool table purchasers it is unlikely that the BCA is going to pay attention to the protests.

Creating an alternative is an expensive proposition that will certainly be without the support of the major players in the industry but could have a lot of support by the smaller businesses. Certainly poolrooms benefit more when more people are drawn to pool. As do cuemakers and accessories makers. A competing organization however would have a lot of work politically to replace the BCA as the WPA representative. Especially since the BCA was and possibly still is a huge financial support for the WPA. It is highly unlikely that any competing organization would receive any cooperation from the WPA. And since the WPA relies on the BCA to nominate players for the World Championships, and the BCA relies on the UPA, I don't see the status quo changing on this front.

However replacing the UPA is a thought. But walking that walk is also quite tough.

At this point in my life I'd rather just talk the talk as concerns this issue. Perhaps if I luck into a lucrative contract with the US government when Bush invades Fiji or something I will be in philanthropic mood and replace the entire world organization. Muwhahahhahah (evil laugh) ;-)
 
John Barton said:
To challenge the status quo means one has to either infiltrate from within the BCA to changes it's direction, loudly protest from outside the BCA, or to create an alternative.

Infiltrating from within means not only being in the industry but also developing enough alliances and support to get elected to and be able to influence the board of directors. This is a many year process that is really not open to the average enthusiast.
Click to expand...


John, you are a genious. I wish I would have thought of that. LOL

Mj

PS.. I cant wait to see my new case from http://jbcases.com/. When is it gonna be here ? I know, we just talked about it but I am so anxious to see it I can't wait. Can you send me pics of it being made ? That should tide me over a bit.
 
MikeJanis said:
John, you are a genious. I wish I would have thought of that. LOL

Mj

PS.. I cant wait to see my new case from http://jbcases.com/. When is it gonna be here ? I know, we just talked about it but I am so anxious to see it I can't wait. Can you send me pics of it being made ? That should tide me over a bit.
Click to expand...

hehe, yes Mike and I admit to getting educated by you :-) By the way you have my vote!!!!

In fact I might just start a few companies to "stuff" the ballot box :-)
 
bca not need audit. All is online with information financial n reports. Look see for self.

I not understand how not for profit business make profits.


http://www.bca-pool.com/aboutus/
look see bottom page


Annual Report Archive: 2005-06 | 2004-05 | 2003-04
BCA fiscal year is from October 1 - September 30


Financial Report
Creating organization value and growth
Fiscal year 2005-2006 marked another sound financial year for the BCA. With over three million dollars in assets on its books, the BCA is able to fund important programs and initiatives that are stable over the long term.
On September 30, 2006, total Assets were 3,564,144. Liabilities were 263,990 and included 103,224 in deferred revenue. Net assets have increased by $155,307 (5%) since last September 30 and were $3,300,154 on September 30, 2006.
The September 2006 Statement of Financial Activities reports total Operating Revenue of $2,630,941 and Operating Expenses of $2,475,634 for a September 30 Net Operating Profit of $155,307.
The April International Billiards & Home Recreation Expo revenue ended with a net profit of $1,163,322; the August Back to Billiards Expo ended with a net profit of $10,940.
The professional events hosted by the BCA each reported losses. The August promotional ?Ballbusters? event showed a net loss of $245,915 and the EnjoyPool.com 9-Ball tournament also showed a net loss of $112,921.
The year ended with a net profit of $155,305, compared to a projected net budget loss of $4,412 for the year, and the second trade show and August pro event have been eliminated for 2006-07.
In all, the financial performance of the BCA during the period demonstrates fiscal strength and stability, along with the promise of a successful follow-up in 2006-2007.
The 2005-2006 Audited Financial Reports are appended and available online.

BILLIARD CONGRESS OF AMERICA
Statements of Financial Position
September 30, 2006 and 2005

ASSETS
2006 2005
CURRENT ASSETS:
Cash and cash equivalents $ 507,821 $ 757,527
Short-term investments (Note B) 1,229,499 922,733
Accounts receivable, net (Note A) 72,056 33,547
Inventory 23,603 24,464
Prepaid expenses 97,989 99,088
Total current assets 1,930,968 1,837,359
LONG-TERM INVESTMENTS (Note C) 1,602,575 1,526,253
PROPERTY & EQUIPMENT:
Equipment 91,792 84,991
Furniture & fixtures 43,833 43,833
Leasehold improvements 25,223 25,223
Pool tables 12,000 12,000
Less accumulated depreciation (149,247) (138,954)
Property & equipment - net 23,601 27,093
OTHER ASSETS 7,000 7,000
TOTAL ASSETS $ 3,564,144 $ 3,397,705
LIABILITIES AND NET ASSETS
CURRENT LIABILITIES:
Accounts payable $ 112,944 $ 22,054
Accrued liabilities 47,822 64,276
Deferred revenue (Note D) 103,224 166,528
Total current liabilities 263,990 252,858
NET ASSETS, Unrestricted 3,300,154 3,144,847
TOTAL LIABILITIES AND NET ASSETS $ 3,564,144 $ 3,397,705

Tax Exempt Status
The Corporation is generally exempt from the payment of federal
income taxes under Section 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue
Code. The Corporation is, however, liable for income tax on
unrelated trade or business income, which includes advertising
income or any other business income that is not substantially
related to its exempt purpose.

Notes to Financial Statements
B. SHORT-TERM INVESTMENTS
Short-term investments at September 30, 2006 consist of
certificates of deposit and money market funds held at
commercial banks with the following terms:
Maturity Interest
Date Rate Principal-
Certificates of deposit:
11/09/06 4.96% $ 106,660
11/09/06 4.96 307,424
03/01/07 5.20 202,621
03/30/07 5.05 410,248
09/09/07 5.05 202,546
$ 1,229,499
C. LONG-TERM INVESTMENTS
Long-term investments include securities the Corporation intends
to hold for more than one year. Long-term investments are
carried at quoted market values and consist of the following at
September 30, 2006 and 2005:
2006 2005
Mutual funds $ 932,560 $ 428,918
Fixed income funds 357,093 59,485
Money market funds 135,454 514,473
Real estate funds 177,468
Certificates of deposit 523,377
Market value $ 1,602,575 $ 1,526,253
Cost $ 1,526,456 $ 1,527,952
Investment income consists of the following components for the
years ended September 30, 2006 and 2005:
2006 2005
Realized and unrealized
gains (losses) $ 76,119 $ 2,365
Interest and dividends 134,698 98,864
Less investment fees _____(14,839) (5,861)
$ 195,978 $ 95,368
 
crosseyedjoe said:
Given that BCA is the governing body of pool in America, should UPA members have the right to ask for an audit on where the BCA's money is going?

It seems that BCA is NOT TRYING HARD to send the qualifying players to WPC. Players are left on their own.
Click to expand...

BCA money going


BILLIARD CONGRESS OF AMERICA
Schedule of Program Services
For the Year Ended September 30, 2006

Marketing and
Tournaments Business
and Events Development Membership Total
Advertising and public relations 92,886 3 0,738 1 0,729 134,353
Booth expenses 2,500 2,500
Contract fees 25,000 25,000
Contract labor 205,635 119,989 325,624
Decorating 34,866 3,289 38,155
Dues and fees 19,655 19,655
Employee benefits 26,121 8 ,613 11,122 45,856
Entertainment 9,116 9,116
Equipment and space rental 129,754 129,754
Fulfillment 2,924 7,879 10,803
Gifts and awards 5,662 5,662
Grants and sponsorship 24,000 24,000
Insurance 1,310 1,310
Management fees 106,000 106,000
Meals, catering and lodging 51,904 1 ,304 53,208
Other expense 44,913 6 0 392 45,365
Payroll taxes 11,881 3 ,859 5,058 20,798
Postage and freight 39,025 4 40 4,282 43,747
Printing 49,212 943 50,155
Prize money 230,000 230,000
Production equipment 67,822 67,822
Professional fees 2,825 2,825
Promotional and special events 11,734 11,734
Registration service 54,315 54,315
Salaries 148,994 48,362 63,411 260,767
Signage 5,157 5,157
Small Equipment 1,141 1,141
Speaker fees 4,593 4,593
Supplies 1,922 7 ,395 319 9,636
Telephone and utilities 24,472 9 77 1,278 26,727
Travel and ground transportation 40,359 9 68 41,327
1,450,698 222,705 133,702 1,807,105
BILLIARD

General & Board of
Administrative Directors Total
Bank charges $ 22,870 $ $ 22,870
Bad debt 5,646 5,646
Contract labor 12,612 162 12,774
Depreciation 15,068 15,068
Dues and fees 2,037 2,037
Education 3,743 3,743
Employee benefits 37,668 37,668
Equipment rental 13 615 628
Gifts and awards 6,992 6,992
Insurance 6,183 1,040 7,223
Meals, lodging and per diem 18,827 22,033 40,860
Payroll taxes 17,981 17,981
Postage and freight 1,674 1,419 3,093
Printing 5,067 389 5,456
Professional fees 67,876 37,100 104,976
Rent 109,536 109,536
Repairs and maintenance 8,708 8,708
Salaries 225,955 225,955
Small equipment 1,143 1,143
Software and hardware 1,864 1,864
Supplies 6,086 738 6,824
Telephone and utilities 13,841 665 14,506
Travel 6,738 6,240 12,978
$ 598,128 $ 70,401 $ 668,529

bca money from

Notes to Financial Statements
D. DEFERRED REVENUE
Deferred revenue consists of the following at September 30,
2006 and 2005:
2006 2005
Deferred membership dues $ 97,024 $ 97,978
Trade Expo sales 6,200 66,670
Other membership revenue _ 1,880
$ 103,224 $ 166,528
E. EVENT REVENUE AND EXPENSES
Event revenue and expenses consist of the following for the
years ended September 30, 2006 and 2005:
2006 2005
Event revenue:
Trade Expo $ 1,803,622 $ 1,468,453
Pro 9 Ball Tournament 97,060 134,654
August Pro event 42,004
Instructors program 24,957 31,343
Junior Nationals 11,621 14,899
Hall of Fame 4,500 7,195
Other events 1,200
Total event revenue $ 1,983,764 $ 1,657,744
Tournament and event expenses:
Trade Expo $ 647,385 $ 552,782
August Pro event 287,919
Pro 9 Ball Tournament 209,981 210,214
Salaries and employee benefits 186,996 118,990
Hall of Fame 33,640 37,965
Junior Nationals 31,044 25,543
Grants and scholarships 19,000
Industry grants 13,655 24,000
Other event expenses 7,790 40,364
Instructors program 5,706 12,755
WPA events 5,000 45,688
Junior billiards program 2,582 ___ -
Total event expenses $ 1,450,698 $ 1,068,301
 
TOTAL LIABILITIES AND NET ASSETS $ 3,564,144 $ 3,397,705

Mr Helfert,

You are correct. BCA got money.

Which begs the question, why can't they send . . .

Oh nevermind, probably the point is lost among the numbers.
 
John Barton said:
First, the BCA is a trade organization. It doesn't send players anywhere.

Secondly, the UPA is probably not a member of the BCA.

Thirdly, the BCA publishes a report each year as to where it's money goes.

Fourthly, there is no "governing body" of pool in the United States. There are plenty of organizations large and small who like to claim that title but none who have earned it.

Fifthly, The BCA is only responsible to tell the WPA who the players are that get automatic spots in the World's. They have tuned that job over to the UPA who maintains the only ranking list of pro players that the BCA recognizes.

There is virtually no way that the BCA is going to spend one penny of it's money to pay for players to participate in pool tournaments. And the United States nor any of the States is likely to either. Unlike the Phillipines and Taiwan - we have more world class athletes in much higher profile, more politically correct, richer (in terms of revenue and voters), sports. Pool is not considered to be anything more than a way to pass the time.

99.99% of the people in the United States could care less who Efren Reyes is and whether Dennis Orcullo can beat him or not. The Billiard Industry as a whole could care less.

The only thing the Billiard Industry cares about is selling more pool tables. And that happens in the absence of a Pro Tour, in the absence of World Champions. That happens because people buy bigger houses and go to the local billiard supply place and buy a table. So, the US Billiard Industry gets no benefit whatsoever by sponsoring players to play abroad. And because of that you won't find the only industry trade group spending it's money to send players abroad.

The BCA has declared itself to not be interested in promoting pool anyway. They have by their own admission become a trade show promotion entity who primary (and possibly sole) focus is on enticing more companies to purchase temporary real estate at it's annual trade show.

And that is why the pro players in the United States have both no hope of support by the BCA nor any right to audit or demand any.
Click to expand...


That's it in a nutshell. One of the best posts I have ever read on this subject. Thanks for posting this, John.
 
Here ya'go. Audit it all you want.

The 2005-2006 Audited Financial Reports are appended and available online. http://bca-pool.com/aboutus/reports/06annual_report_audit.pdf


Pay special attention to page 8 line E. EVENT REVENUE AND EXPENSES
Event revenue and expenses consist of the following for the
years ended September 30, 2006 and 2005:

2006 2005
Event revenue:
Pro 9 Ball Tournament 97,060 134,654
August Pro event 42,004

Tournament and event expenses:
August Pro event 287,919
Pro 9 Ball Tournament 209,981 210,214


It's not that they are not doing anything its that some of what they have done is not effective.

On just those two events alone they showed a net loss of about $358,000.

The one that interests me the most was the August event which was "Ballbusters". They lost/spent $245,915 on that 1 event. Monies like this could be used more effeciently towards the building of a professional network here in the US.
 
Last edited:
John Barton said:
First, the BCA is a trade organization. It doesn't send players anywhere.

Secondly, the UPA is probably not a member of the BCA.

Thirdly, the BCA publishes a report each year as to where it's money goes.

Fourthly, there is no "governing body" of pool in the United States. There are plenty of organizations large and small who like to claim that title but none who have earned it.

Fifthly, The BCA is only responsible to tell the WPA who the players are that get automatic spots in the World's. They have tuned that job over to the UPA who maintains the only ranking list of pro players that the BCA recognizes.

There is virtually no way that the BCA is going to spend one penny of it's money to pay for players to participate in pool tournaments. And the United States nor any of the States is likely to either. Unlike the Phillipines and Taiwan - we have more world class athletes in much higher profile, more politically correct, richer (in terms of revenue and voters), sports. Pool is not considered to be anything more than a way to pass the time.

99.99% of the people in the United States could care less who Efren Reyes is and whether Dennis Orcullo can beat him or not. The Billiard Industry as a whole could care less.

The only thing the Billiard Industry cares about is selling more pool tables. And that happens in the absence of a Pro Tour, in the absence of World Champions. That happens because people buy bigger houses and go to the local billiard supply place and buy a table. So, the US Billiard Industry gets no benefit whatsoever by sponsoring players to play abroad. And because of that you won't find the only industry trade group spending it's money to send players abroad.

The BCA has declared itself to not be interested in promoting pool anyway. They have by their own admission become a trade show promotion entity who primary (and possibly sole) focus is on enticing more companies to purchase temporary real estate at it's annual trade show.

And that is why the pro players in the United States have both no hope of support by the BCA nor any right to audit or demand any.
Click to expand...

I agree with you John with one exception. I have always believed that establishing a major Pro Pool Tour would have direct benefits for all BCA members. A well publicized Professional Pool Tour would help them sell more pool tables, cues, chalk, lights, scuffers, racks, cloth, etc. etc.

It seems to have done wonders for the makers of golf and tennis equipment. Oh well, I am shouting in the wind once again. I made an elaborate proposal to the board of the BCA nearly 20 years ago. In it I outlined the benefits to them of establishing a Pro Pool Tour. I was willing to produce this twelve city tour for them. Nothing doing was their response.

Now Mike Janis has taken up the sword. Maybe he will have more success then I did. I wish him luck.
 
jay helfert said:
I agree with you John with one exception. I have always believed that establishing a major Pro Pool Tour would have direct benefits for all BCA members. A well publicized Professional Pool Tour would help them sell more pool tables, cues, chalk, lights, scuffers, racks, cloth, etc. etc.

It seems to have done wonders for the makers of golf and tennis equipment. Oh well, I am shouting in the wind once again. I made an elaborate proposal to the board of the BCA nearly 20 years ago. In it I outlined the benefits to them of establishing a Pro Pool Tour. I was willing to produce this twelve city tour for them. Nothing doing was their response.

Now Mike Janis has taken up the sword. Maybe he will have more success then I did. I wish him luck.
Click to expand...


Jay, I would love to see a copy of that proposal. Do you still have it from 20 years ago?
 
MikeJanis said:
Here ya'go. Audit it all you want.

The 2005-2006 Audited Financial Reports are appended and available online. http://bca-pool.com/aboutus/reports/06annual_report_audit.pdf


Pay special attention to page 8 line E. EVENT REVENUE AND EXPENSES
Event revenue and expenses consist of the following for the
years ended September 30, 2006 and 2005:

2006 2005
Event revenue:
Pro 9 Ball Tournament 97,060 134,654
August Pro event 42,004

Tournament and event expenses:
August Pro event 287,919
Pro 9 Ball Tournament 209,981 210,214


It's not that they are not doing anything its that some of what they have done is not effective.

On just those two events alone they showed a net loss of about $358,000.

The one that interests me the most was the August event which was "Ballbusters". They lost/spent $245,915 on that 1 event. Monies like this could be used more effeciently towards the building of a professional network here in the US.
Click to expand...

Producing a major pro tournament that has national television coverage is "advertising" for their sport. And should be viewed as such. The benefits to them include increased interest in pool and related sales of the products they manufacture. It actually is pretty cheap by advertising standards. They're getting a lot of bang for their buck, so to speak.
 
jay helfert said:
Producing a major pro tournament that has national television coverage is "advertising" for their sport. And should be viewed as such. The benefits to them include increased interest in pool and related sales of the products they manufacture. It actually is pretty cheap by advertising standards. They're getting a lot of bang for their buck, so to speak.
Click to expand...

I agree but the way they have deen doing them has cost the BCA over $100K per event. There is no way they can afford on their own to do 10 of those each year. If you look at what they have spent -vs- the revenues from it along with how they do it you will see there is a much better way.
 
crosseyedjoe said:
So why no one is challenging BCA's position in WPA? Maybe, because everyone wants to talk but really don't want to do the walk?

I think APA should replace BCA.
Click to expand...

The APA hasn't done any better either. Except, that they are sponsors on the Women's Pro Tour, and it's been relatively successful, considering... Of course people can gripe about it too, but it's a better tour than what the men have, and has been for numbers of years. No need to try to knock it, or tear it down (that would be self destructive), but instead try to replace it, BUT ONLY IF something can prove themselves to be better. Capitalism at its best, success through competition allowing the best to rise to the top. But of course, that's no easy task.

Same for the BCA, they seem to have taken a different path as to what's in the best interest for everyone. This will never change if the players maintain a status quo mindset. That status quo mindset will have to be broken, in order for the success through competition to even have a chance. That's where we all as players and other business interests have power. To look for, what could be better and to support it, whenever possible. No matter if it succeeds or fails in the short run, in the long run, over time, it'll provide the best opportunities for allowing something new and better to come around or entice the big establishments to enhance their existing product.

If we have a status quo mindset, then we are equally responsible for things staying exactly as they are...
 
MikeJanis said:
I agree but the way they have deen doing them has cost the BCA over $100K per event. There is no way they can afford on their own to do 10 of those each year. If you look at what they have spent -vs- the revenues from it along with how they do it you will see there is a much better way.
Click to expand...

It seems that you've been doing an excellent job to forage a new path. I know it hasn't been easy. But it seems to be working and growing. Keep up the good work!
 
FLICKit said:
It seems that you've been doing an excellent job to forage a new path. I know it hasn't been easy. But it seems to be working and growing. Keep up the good work!
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll do my best.

Mj
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top