Should we start a petition to change the 5 ball back to orange again?

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It seems like it is just a TV thing. I have never seen those balls in person. Billiard supplies sell the normal balls. The ball color thing may be a non issue.

i've seen them in two pool halls, and nevermind the purple 5 - these balls are useless in any game other than 9-ball. balls numbered 10-15 are hard to distinguish from each other, and from the 8-9. not all pool halls are well lit matchroom arenas lol.

i don't care as much what the elite plays on in televised events, it's a different game to mine anyway, as it should be. i'm not playing on 4" pockets either. if the use of these balls, and the grey cloth etc, helps to create an interest in the sport i'm all for it.
 

phreaticus

Well-known member
i've seen them in two pool halls, and nevermind the purple 5 - these balls are useless in any game other than 9-ball. balls numbered 10-15 are hard to distinguish from each other, and from the 8-9. not all pool halls are well lit matchroom arenas lol.

i don't care as much what the elite plays on in televised events, it's a different game to mine anyway, as it should be. i'm not playing on 4" pockets either. if the use of these balls, and the grey cloth etc, helps to create an interest in the sport i'm all for it.
Yeah, can’t really argue with that. I’m used to them now anyway, but still hate them & will sign 😂✌️
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
i apologize for not reading all the replies
but in my humble opinion
these colors should be the only ones allowed on pool balls
centennial pool balls.png
 

Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
Food for Thought?

Why was the change made?
Was the change made scientifically?
Alternatives considered?
Stakeholders consulted? Who? At what point in process?
Public given opportunity to give input? When? How?
What are the available avenues to effect change?
 

Minnesota Phat

Active member
I don't think pool is complicated enough, so I hope they change the colors of the numbered balls between each competition, just to make sure that every potential audience is thoroughly confused.

They could use all black balls to make things even more complicated in the short-term, but that wouldn't maximize people's confusion and angst in the long-term - replacing the orange five with a purple five ball is more elegantly befuddling than just using all black balls.

Polka dot balls are next - I can't wait for the purple polka-dot five-ball.

That's what this is really all about - they are planning to change "solids" to "polka dots," and orange doesn't film as well as purple when the balls have a polka-dot pattern.

Will you sign my petition to encourage the billiards people to enact their plan to change the design of "solid" balls to make them all "polka dot" balls?

Once the changeover to polka dot balls occurs, you'll see why they needed a puzzlingly purple five-ball to eat the classic orange five-ball - the orange doesn't stand out enough from white, whereas purple polka dots really pop!

Of course there is a lot of drama around the question of how big the polka dots should be, but that will sort itself out in the usual fashion.

Anyway, I fully support the purple five, and I humbly suggest that they also introduce a purple seven (maybe I should start a petition for that? Hmmm).
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
Food for Thought?

Why was the change made?
Was the change made scientifically?
Alternatives considered?
Stakeholders consulted? Who? At what point in process?
Public given opportunity to give input? When? How?
What are the available avenues to effect change?
It gets posted every time there is one of these discussion but you don't have to wonder any more because the link below explains why they made all of the ball color changes they have made over the years. The reasons are not justified in my opinion, but none the less they are the reasons, or at least it is the reasons that they are claiming anyway. One would have to be a fool to not think that a primary motivation if not the sole reason for wanting different colors was simply for branding, and it is clear that branding is ultra important to them including with the ball colors.
 
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Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
My thoughts on the topic are that there was no reason to change from the traditional colors to begin with and it causes a viewing and playing confusion that is highly detrimental to the game and highly detrimental to the viewing experience. And even if the changes were halfway justifiable at one time (and everybody knows the real main reason for the changes was actually branding), with today's color accurate and highly detailed phone and tv screens it is no longer needed so whatever flimsy excuse you had at one time is now gone.

That said, I think most people could grudgingly accept changing the colors on a couple of balls such as changing the seven ball from red to brown. They don't like it, and they think it is dumb, but they can grudgingly learn the new color and learn to live with it even if they don't like it and don't want it. Because there has never been another brown ball in pool before, you can train yourself to learn that when you see brown it is the seven ball. But for hundreds of years the four ball and only the four ball has been purple and only purple. Purple IS the four ball, period, and there is no training yourself around that and people will forever be making mistakes and getting themselves confused since the four and only the four has been purple and only purple for hundreds of years and so moving a traditional color from one ball to another will never be acceptable. You can replace ball colors (changing 7 from red to brown), but you can never move a traditional color from one ball to another (moving purple from the 4 to the 5).

Sorry Matchroom but your "but we already made the four ball pink" excuse is not a good enough reason to move the color purple over to the five ball. Your pink ball has twenty years of niche history on .01% of ball sets. The color purple has hundreds of years of history on 100% of ball sets and even today is still on 99.99% of ball sets. If a ball color has to be moved then move the pink that has very little history over to be the five ball (or better yet just get rid of pink and make the five ball orange again) because it is more respectful of hundreds of years of history and because it will be the choice that causes faaaaaaaaaaaaar less confusion for everybody.

To move the color purple to a different numbered ball so you don't have to move the pink to a different numbered ball is the absolute height of arrogance (and shortsightedness) on Matchroom's part. By doing so they are essentially saying they believe their couple of years of exceptionally niche ball color "history" is more important than hundreds of years of universal pool ball color history, but even more than that they are showing a total and utter disregard for the viewing (and playing) ease and pleasure of all fans everywhere. Because of their extreme arrogance and bad decision making in this regard I intend to limit my support of Matchroom as much as possible by ensuring they receive none of my money and as little of my other support as possible such as viewing free streams etc until they have rectified things. We can live with replacing a color (such as changing the seven from red to brown) if we must, but moving a historical color is not acceptable under any circumstance and if you use a historical color it must be used in its traditional place.
 
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Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We need MR to see this thread.

I was serious when I started it. I joke around often here. I keep things lite hearted and enjoy pool.

But this thread is something I’m very serious about and look at the results most people agree with my thoughts. This isn’t about me at all to be clear.

It’s only about correcting a mistake that MR made with pool. They are doing great things, man I can’t say enough good things about them. But mixing up the colors of the balls that are right next to each other 4,5 was a HUGE mistake. And that’s ok. Please fix that problem.

Fixing that problem is all this is about.

We need as many players, rail birds, pool fans as possible to get on board and MR will notice and do what they will. Hopefully realize they made a mistake and fix it. We all make mistakes, not a knock on them.

Thanks everyone for supporting keeping the 5 ball orange!!!! We can do it💪💪

Best
Fatboy <——-preserving our game
 

oknazevad

Registered
My thoughts on the topic are that there was no reason to change from the traditional colors to begin with and it causes a viewing and playing confusion that is highly detrimental to the game and highly detrimental to the viewing experience. And even if the changes were halfway justifiable at one time (and everybody knows the real main reason for the changes was actually branding), with today's color accurate and highly detailed phone and tv screens it is no longer needed so whatever flimsy excuse you had at one time is now gone.

That said, I think most people could grudgingly accept changing the colors on a couple of balls such as changing the seven ball from red to brown. They don't like it, and they think it is dumb, but they can grudgingly learn the new color and learn to live with it even if they don't like it and don't want it. Because there has never been another brown ball in pool before, you can train yourself to learn that when you see brown it is the seven ball. But for hundreds of years the four ball and only the four ball has been purple and only purple. Purple IS the four ball, period, and there is no training yourself around that and people will forever be making mistakes and getting themselves confused since the four and only the four has been purple and only purple for hundreds of years and so moving a traditional color from one ball to another will never be acceptable. You can replace ball colors (changing 7 from red to brown), but you can never move a traditional color from one ball to another (moving purple from the 4 to the 5).

Sorry Matchroom but your "but we already made the four ball pink" excuse is not a good enough reason to move the color purple over to the five ball. Your pink ball has twenty years of niche history on .01% of ball sets. The color purple has hundreds of years of history on 100% of ball sets and even today is still on 99.99% of ball sets. If a ball color has to be moved then move the pink that has very little history over to be the five ball (or better yet just get rid of pink and make the five ball orange again) because it is more respectful of hundreds of years of history and because it will be the choice that causes faaaaaaaaaaaaar less confusion for everybody.

To move the color purple to a different numbered ball so you don't have to move the pink to a different numbered ball is the absolute height of arrogance (and shortsightedness) on Matchroom's part. By doing so they are essentially saying they believe their couple of years of exceptionally niche ball color "history" is more important than hundreds of years of universal pool ball color history, but even more than that they are showing a total and utter disregard for the viewing (and playing) ease and pleasure of all fans everywhere. Because of their extreme arrogance and bad decision making in this regard I intend to limit my viewing of Matchroom events as much as possible until it is rectified. We can live with replacing a color (such as changing the seven from red to brown) if we must, but what we cannot live with under any circumstance and nor is there any good reason for is moving a universally known historical and traditional color such as purple from one ball to another like from the four ball to the five ball. If you are using a historical and traditional color, it can only be used on the historical and traditional number it has always been used on and cannot suddenly and confusingly be moved to some other ball number after hundreds of years.
I completely agree with the whole "don't swap existing colors onto the wrong ball" part, but the "hundreds of years" thing is, frankly, the sort of incorrect overstatement and exaggeration that undermines the entire argument completely. Until the rise of rotation games the late 1880s/1890s, 15-ball pyramid pool balls were uniformly red (which is the origin of the reds in snooker, btw).

Personally, I have no objection to the brown 7, as the traditional maroon is already a shade of brown. The pink 4 has been around for a few decades now. But there's nothing wrong with a purple 4 or an orange 5. I'll be the first to state that I do find the shade of purple Aramith uses on their traditional color sets to be too dark, even in person, and prefer the lighter shades used by others. but for F's sake make the 4 purple and the 5 orange!
 
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Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
I completely agree with the whole "don't swap existing colors onto the wrong ball" part, but the "hundreds of years" thing is, frankly, the sort of incorrect overstatement and exaggeration that undermines the entire argument completely.
Wording such as "an amount of time that could be measured by increments of hundreds of years" would have been more exact but also more cumbersome so I simplified but perhaps that wasn't a good choice. That said, you don't think the number of years the traditional colors have been in use is in the triple digits? I was under that strong impression that was the case but if they were in fact invented after 1922 then somebody provide the history and I stand corrected. I would be curious to know a more precise date and history in any case.
 
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Food for Thought?

Why was the change made?
Was the change made scientifically?
Alternatives considered?
Stakeholders consulted? Who? At what point in process?
Public given opportunity to give input? When? How?
What are the available avenues to effect change?
It all started with a petition by a bunch of ladies that were sick of their guys paying more attention to their pool game than them.
 

oknazevad

Registered
Wording such as "an amount of time that could be measured by increments of hundreds of years" would have been more exact but also more cumbersome so I simplified but perhaps that wasn't a good choice. That said, you don't think the number of years the traditional colors have been in use is in the triple digits? I was under that strong impression that was the case but if they were in fact invented after 1922 then somebody provide the history and I stand corrected. I would be curious to know a more precise date and history in any case.
The use of the plural "hundreds" implies at least 200 years. Better to just say "over a hundred years". Accurate if imprecise, it's not an exaggeration.

As for an exact date, I'd love to know that myself, but it's one of those things about the origins of modern pool that was overlooked back in the day because of pool's shady reputation (as opposed to the gentlemanly game of carom billiards).

Heck, I still would like to find out the exact year the pink 4 was introduced.
 
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Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
The use of the plural "hundreds" implies at least 200 years. Better to just say "over a hundred years". Accurate if imprecise, it's not an exaggeration.
Like I said, I simplified to keep it less cumbersome and it probably wasn't ideal.

That said, the colors that we know as the traditional colors have been the traditional colors for longer than any of us have been alive. Think about that for a moment. There is no pool player or fan alive that knows anything else as the mainstream traditional color scheme. So really, beyond the fact that it has been the same traditional colors for all of our lifetimes, the question of whether they have actually been the mainstream traditional colors for 100 years, 200 years, or 6,000 years is immaterial to the point that was being made because it has been a longer than any of us have been alive.

Changing a certain numbered ball from one color to another (like the 7 ball from red to brown) is unnecessary and dumb enough. Moving one of the historically traditional colors from one ball over to a different ball, like moving the color purple from the 4 ball over to the 5 ball, is a whole new level of idiotic that creates an even stronger mess of confusion yet and is just downright inexcusable. There is almost no good reason for it whatsoever, and a lot of great reason not to do it.

There is literally only one person on earth who likes a purple 5 ball, and that is Emily Frazer. Everybody else falls somewhere between "I hate it but am trying to let it slide because they are doing some other good things in pool" to "I hate it and desperately hope that Emily bitch gets run over by a double decker bus as payback for such a grievous sin".
 
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