of the cueball, about 3 balls past contact, on the same angle before contact ?
Or should the grip go up ?
Or should the grip go up ?
Should your grip hand follow past contact
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
- Start date
Depends upon what type of stroke is used. Piston or Pendulum.
The cue ball is gone in about 1000 of a second in both types of strokes.
The Piston refers to the cue stick as staying level through out the stroke. The Pendulum refers to the cue stick being level only at the time of contact.
How much follow through is required by either stroke is about 1/16th of an inch. Being that we are not Superman, hard to believe, the mortal human should allow the cue stick's movement to carry past impact until it starts to slow down naturally.
With a Piston the cue stick will still attempted to be level as in the impact position.
With a Pendulum the cue stick will start to point down some time after impact because the Cradle hand is now moving upward.
Nice question. Hope this starts a great thread.
randyg
The cue ball is gone in about 1000 of a second in both types of strokes.
The Piston refers to the cue stick as staying level through out the stroke. The Pendulum refers to the cue stick being level only at the time of contact.
How much follow through is required by either stroke is about 1/16th of an inch. Being that we are not Superman, hard to believe, the mortal human should allow the cue stick's movement to carry past impact until it starts to slow down naturally.
With a Piston the cue stick will still attempted to be level as in the impact position.
With a Pendulum the cue stick will start to point down some time after impact because the Cradle hand is now moving upward.
Nice question. Hope this starts a great thread.
randyg
So with the piston stroke we should expect a little elbow drop after contact?
I think so.
A little elbow drop.
A little wrist twist.
A little tighter grip.
A little jump up.
randyg
Yes. For a further explanation of piston/pendulum and some observations of actual players, see the articles from February and March of 2004 from Billiards Digest, available at: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html
The vast majority of players who use what you would probably call a pendulum stroke also have some elbow drop after the ball is gone.
Vlado312
Registered
I remember a while back someone made a great video with Greyghost that explains piston and pendulum strokes, as well as other important things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u52gKAehqo
After about 7:40 he gets into the specifics of the stroke, good stuff before that too though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u52gKAehqo
After about 7:40 he gets into the specifics of the stroke, good stuff before that too though.
WOW. thanks for the link. Reading these articles should keep me busy for at least a year or so. Lot of good stuff.
I use both the piston and pendulum strokes. It all depends on what I what to do with the cue ball. Like on a power draw shot I would use a pendulum stroke. On a power follow shot I would use a piston stroke with a lot of wrist snap. (snap= for lack of a better word to use)
Thanks again for the link......back to '92 and more reading
John
John...Unfortunately, regardless of what you may read or hear, there is no evidence that you get more of anything (speed, power, spin, etc) with a piston vs. a pendulum stroke. The piston stroke has more moving parts, and is consequently more prone to small errors in timing, cuetip placement, and several other variables. There is no shot, or position, that can be accomplished with a piston stroke, that cannot be accomplished with a pendulum. KISS rules, imo. In the end, though, it is different strokes for different folks. 
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
WOW. thanks for the link. Reading these articles should keep me busy for at least a year or so. Lot of good stuff.
I use both the piston and pendulum strokes. It all depends on what I what to do with the cue ball. Like on a power draw shot I use a pendulum stroke. On a power follow shot I use a piston stroke with a lot of wrist snap. (snap= for lack of a better word to use)
I took out the word "would" in my OP. It sounded suggestive. I am not an instructor.
Thanks again for the link......back to '92 and more reading.
John
I use both the piston and pendulum strokes. It all depends on what I what to do with the cue ball. Like on a power draw shot I use a pendulum stroke. On a power follow shot I use a piston stroke with a lot of wrist snap. (snap= for lack of a better word to use)
I took out the word "would" in my OP. It sounded suggestive. I am not an instructor.
Thanks again for the link......back to '92 and more reading.
John
John...Unfortunately, regardless of what you may read or hear, there is no evidence that you get more of anything (speed, power, spin, etc) with a piston vs. a pendulum stroke. The piston stroke has more moving parts, and is consequently more prone to small errors in timing, cuetip placement, and several other variables. There is no shot, or position, that can be accomplished with a piston stroke, that cannot be accomplished with a pendulum. KISS rules, imo. In the end, though, it is different strokes for different folks.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Mike might disagree.:grin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbnxQWe_OTg&feature=related
If you single step the video, you will see clearly that he doesn't do what he says he's doing. During the first shot he has a slight drop just prior to contact, then he moves his shoulder and elbow upward after contact. He has a short follow through. During the last shot, his elbow drops well after contact.
And when opening up this vid, on the same page is another video done by someone showing that you can perform this shot without any elbow drop.
Mike knows his stuff. The video is not the best because it doesn't show him from behind actually shooting the shot he made. I've stood next to him when he completely drops his arm on a successful power draw. He does what he says.
I think that only two types of players should experiment with an elbow drop: Advanced players and players with open minds. I have seen many claim that they attemped to experiment with an elbow drop who had already made up their minds regarding it. Most of that time is then spent trying to prove themselves right, which doesn't really accomplish the true goal.
I have found a few real reasons to drop my elbow on certain shots that absolutely work for me, and I am only too happy to be able to add those to my arsenal of shots. Sorry, but that's info that I will only share with open minded people, one-on-one.
Thanks Fran.
I know I can't kill the ball unless I exaggerate the follow and drop the elbow completely.
Yes, Mike knows his stuff and can do it. It's just the video doesn't support what he says.
True. That side view of his elbow is not the shot that was recorded, unless there were two cameras operating simultaneously and the result spliced together. We don't know what happened with that other elbow shot.
Luckily I can report as a witness to what he actually does when it's a successful shot.