Side bets in APA

[APA Operator]

All you league ops are the same. You make sure everyone and their wife plays so you get in their wallets. Then you target their kids.

Saving American pool isn't going to happen from getting 1,000 SL3s in the game. We all constantly point out that we need more talent. The reason there isn't any is glaringly obvious.

Let's see I make good money, own a pool hall, live on lakefront property and can play for whatever I want. If you know how to play, have bankroll, can make good games and have some heart there's still opportunities to make money. Thing is guys like you make pool as boring as going to the library.

Meanwhile if you would dare play anybody with the 6 out and the breaks, your gonna be shaking because you are playing with air and have no game.

I'm glad you're happy with your life. Guess what, I'm pretty happy with mine too. But I'm not interested in comparing genitals or in being told that if I'm not doing it your way I'm not doing it right. That's an elitist attitude and maybe you think you've earned it. If you have then so have I. I'm not interested in where you live or how much you bet, or even in "saving American pool", whatever that is, but not once did I ever begrudge you what makes you happy.

If you think we need more talent in the sport, you're not going to find it by attracting APA 7's. They're already in the sport. The only way to attract more is to attract the beginners. It's a really simple concept, why can't you grasp it? But apparently unlike you, we don't limit the opportunity to someone who's not a wife or not somebody's kid. You'd be surprised where you can find talent.

If somebody's wife or somebody's kid walked into your pool hall, would you turn away their money? I find it hypocritical that you brag about making money on pool then bag on someone else for doing the same. And your last line is comical, what does any of this have anything to do with how much game a person has? Is that what makes them a good person? That seems like a last-resort attempt at an insult. It didn't work. Money doesn't scare me, I've got plenty. I just don't value winning at pool enough to spend my money or effort on it any more. If you do, good for you. We all have different values in life.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

&deleted$ haha

 

[SBC]

Gambling intensifies cheating and cheating intensifies fighting/violence.

We already have too much of BOTH in our pool halls/bars already.

I detest cheating and cheaters. You guys that gamble go fishing for an easy mark, hide your true speed (cheat) for a few racks or a set so the bet can be upped. That, or you'll give or take enough weight to where you know the other guy has no chance.

Like I stated in a previous post, I don't have anything against gamblers or gambling as long as it doesn't get so out of hand that you're losing your rent money of your kids college funds. I would have a problem with someone taking somebody else's rent money too. You just shouldn't bet with someone that you positively know cannot afford to lose his money. That said, I've seen my share of lowlifes that have done just that.

So gambling per se does not leave a bad taste in my mouth if done correctly, it's the lowlife degenerates that feed off of people that they KNOW have zero chance of success that bother me. There's probably more than a handful of these types of gamblers here on this forum, and they probably have no shame at all when they look themselves in the mirror.

I'm done here. And when I say I'm out, I stay out. So....carry on fellow AZB'ers!

Maniac

I give weight blind to get action and there's a whole world of guys that beat me.

I've gone to events and play strangers for decent money with very few issues. It's how you carry yourself and what you will allow that makes it work.

Finding good action is getting more difficult as the percentage of money players shrinks.

 

[SBC]

I'm glad you're happy with your life. Guess what, I'm pretty happy with mine too. But I'm not interested in comparing genitals or in being told that if I'm not doing it your way I'm not doing it right. That's an elitist attitude and maybe you think you've earned it. If you have then so have I. I'm not interested in where you live or how much you bet, or even in "saving American pool", whatever that is, but not once did I ever begrudge you what makes you happy.

If you think we need more talent in the sport, you're not going to find it by attracting APA 7's. They're already in the sport. The only way to attract more is to attract the beginners. It's a really simple concept, why can't you grasp it? But apparently unlike you, we don't limit the opportunity to someone who's not a wife or not somebody's kid. You'd be surprised where you can find talent.

If somebody's wife or somebody's kid walked into your pool hall, would you turn away their money? I find it hypocritical that you brag about making money on pool then bag on someone else for doing the same. And your last line is comical, what does any of this have anything to do with how much game a person has? Is that what makes them a good person? That seems like a last-resort attempt at an insult. It didn't work. Money doesn't scare me, I've got plenty. I just don't value winning at pool enough to spend my money or effort on it any more. If you do, good for you. We all have different values in life.

Your ilk are the ones who are elitists. Nothing like a zombie hourde of 80 people obnoxiously taking over a room. Dumbing down the game with idiotic rules on Fisher Price tables. Yeah, I don't need or want that.

So I have a players room that I built with my labor and investment. The wannabes are up the road. Everything changes with time. For those that didn't come up playing old school pool, there is nothing like it.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

So if your caught making SIDE-BET FOR A BUCK, or BEER in APA what is penalty?

 

[claymont]

I don't want pool unrecognizable from what it was.

Other people who have said the same about different subjects: Taliban, Isis, Luddites
The money and people that leagues have brought to pool is beyond anything that all the poolrooms in the country have, and that's a positive! IMO What about a venue like the SBE, do you have any objections to that? The way you feel pool should be is fine; there's room for all formats. That's the kind of pool I was involved with many years ago, just not my cup of tea now

 

[SBC]

Other people who have said the same about different subjects: Taliban, Isis, Luddites
The money and people that leagues have brought to pool is beyond anything that all the poolrooms in the country have, and that's a positive! IMO What about a venue like the SBE, do you have any objections to that? The way you feel pool should be is fine; there's room for all formats. That's the kind of pool I was involved with many years ago, just not my cup of tea now

I object to half of SBE....

Leagues have cheapened the game. The rules, the games, the tables, the handicaps have led to the continued degradation of what pool should be.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I object to half of SBE....

Leagues have cheapened the game. The rules, the games, the tables, the handicaps have led to the continued degradation of what pool should be.

League Operators I think have little skin in game compaired to Room/Bar Owners. If the Bar?Room Owner had it together they would charge the League Oprator a FEE for use of facilities.

 

[APA Operator]

Your ilk are the ones who are elitists. Nothing like a zombie hourde of 80 people obnoxiously taking over a room. Dumbing down the game with idiotic rules on Fisher Price tables. Yeah, I don't need or want that.

So I have a players room that I built with my labor and investment. The wannabes are up the road. Everything changes with time. For those that didn't come up playing old school pool, there is nothing like it.

You can have it your way in your place. There's plenty of people to go around. I don't understand the hostility toward the people who find value in the league product. They're down the road, out of your hair. Let them do what they want. Sounds like they're doing you a favor.

I grew up with both styles of pool. They are different, for good reason too, but there's no reason they can't coexist.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

You can have it your way in your place. There's plenty of people to go around. I don't understand the hostility toward the people who find value in the league product. They're down the road, out of your hair. Let them do what they want. Sounds like they're doing you a favor.

I grew up with both styles of pool. They are different, for good reason too, but there's no reason they can't coexist.

The reason Pool as a group has gone to hell is Pool unlike other sports has many big fish, each with their little pond.

The people have not figured out Pool would be better off if all Pool was under one umbrella. Not 7 or 10.

Ever hear of MLB, NFL, NBA, or NHL, all are the umbrella cover their sport. One big group, strength in numbers. Not big fish, each with little ponds they control.

 

[APA Operator]

Leagues have cheapened the game. The rules, the games, the tables, the handicaps have led to the continued degradation of what pool should be.

What YOU THINK pool should be. What YOU THINK pool should be had it's chance, but the participants were so short-sighted that they couldn't see their actions were severely limiting the audience for the sport. Let the sport evolve.

 

[APA Operator]

Ever hear of MLB, NFL, NBA, or NHL, all are the umbrella cover their sport. One big group, strength in numbers,

Don't know why you chose that post for this reply, but to bring the discussion back to the OP, every one of those organizations has rules prohibiting participants and management from gambling on the sport. So does that mean you're in the "no gambling" camp?

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

What YOU THINK pool should be. What YOU THINK pool should be had it's chance, but the participants were so short-sighted that they couldn't see their actions were severely limiting the audience for the sport. Let the sport evolve.

This Sport is not going to evolve under 8 or 10 different groups fighting in different directions to get their little piece of the Pool pie.

People who run/own APA, BCA, BCAPL, ACS, and the other groups should if they care form one organization to govern all Pool in USA.

I bet this will not happen as the big fish with their own little ponds they control. Do not want to give up their power, and control.

Working in one direction is not as personally productive, or profitable as total control of their little piece of pool.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Don't know why you chose that post for this reply, but to bring the discussion back to the OP, every one of those organizations has rules prohibiting participants and management from gambling on the sport. So does that mean you're in the "no gambling" camp?

People need to be responsible, I do not gamble by choice. When you try and control people with rules outside legal statutes that is .

In my state if two people want to do a personal bet between player A, and B. It comes under legal social gambling, not against ARS’s.

Different state have different laws.

Like my idea about all US Pool under one governing body?

Think this is goof idea.

Works 4 Golf. PGA, LPGA, Sr. PGA, All PGA.

 

[cjl0s]

Gambling historically has a place in pool. Most people that have played for any length of time have wagered from time to time. I won a lot of beers in college playing pool. Once I bet a guy for a beer when I was underage for full strength non 3.2 beer.. He was too old to be there but he was with a young date. When I beat him he showed me his cop badge and then bought me my 16 oz Genny Creme Ale anyway! But he was with what seemed to be an underage girl so maybe we were even. I also remember betting a guy and beating him and discovering my ride had left and had to depend on that guy and his friends to ride me back to my hotel in Lubbock Tx. Not too smart in hindsight but I am still here.

But friendly wagers like that is not really gambling. I am good enough to know who I can’t beat. But sometimes I still play them anyway as that is the only way they will play you. I used to occasionally bet a guy who was once a road player. He never let up and would always win but sometimes would give me advice about how I screwed up. We are talking small stakes but I knew he sometimes he slept in his car. He has been gone for a while after a hard sad life. I don’t have a lot of money to bet in my budget. Generally about $50 is my limit so I would be too small stake to be considered anything.

Playing APA socially today rather than 20 years ago, I really never see people gambling much other than friendly wagers and honestly wagering for league fees would not move the interest needle for me at least. I have played in leagues in the past where serious gambling was prevalent and it can cause problems particularly when alcohol is involved. I once saw a teammate take $1800 off a loudmouth drunk one evening after pool and honestly I was worried the guy was going to go to his car to get something to retrieve it. The guy had no chance. This put the girl bartender working by herself and me because I would protect her at risk and anyone else that happens to be around late. Not talking about seasoned gamblers that know how to match up and how to manage things which is another matter.

I think gambling in a league setting generally can be destructive and it dissuades new players from wanting to take up the sport or let their spouse play and remain married and make the house payment. A lot of long time league players start out a 3 and maybe stay there or move up to a 4. And that’s ok. There is a place for that and the sport would die out if we could not attract new paying enthusiasts that order food/drinks at the bar. I just like meeting people after being shut in for so long. That's enough for me. No problem with leagues and LOs as they provide this service.

 

[APA Operator]

People need to be responsible, I do not gamble by choice. When you try and control people with rules outside legal statutes that is .

In my state if two people want to do a personal bet between player A, and B. It comes under legal social gambling, not against ARS’s.

Different state have different laws.

Like my idea about all US Pool under one governing body?

Think this is goof idea.

Works 4 Golf. PGA, LPGA, Sr. PGA, All PGA.

I do think this is a goof idea. Golf isn't all organized under one umbrella. At the top level it is (for now). But there are tons of amateur leagues and tournaments not governed by any body except the ones running the league. They get fewer and fewer as you get further from the grass roots, but at the beginner level all sports have many ruling bodies.

 

[SBC]

League Operators I think have little skin in game compaired to Room/Bar Owners. If the Bar?Room Owner had it together they would charge the League Oprator a FEE for use of

League Operators I think have little skin in game compaired to Room/Bar Owners. If the Bar?Room Owner had it together they would charge the League Oprator a FEE for use of facilities.

If you come between a league operator and their money....it gets ugly. Guy here agreed to have us host APA then the other room in town threatened to start TAP if he allowed us to host. Then the APA operator backed out of our arrangement. He has 3 counties and just under 200 teams. Similar power moves pulled all over the country with these guys controlling where players play.

I don't need their money, but I'm very much the exception. I don't own a room to get rich, have a very good day job. People want to see my room fail, it might someday, but on my terms. Meanwhile I have a great room with quality tables for the old timers and diehard players that the league and fancy pool hall don't care about.


Heres all you need to understand about leagues to know what a drain they are on pool:

We have 1 American pro making over 100k a year off pool.
Meanwhile there are dozens of league ops making more. And the APA takes at least 30% nationally. How much money is that? What good could be done for pool with that money, except to versus fund the founders and corporation?

 

[SBC]

What YOU THINK pool should be. What YOU THINK pool should be had it's chance, but the participants were so short-sighted that they couldn't see their actions were severely limiting the audience for the sport. Let the sport evolve.

Like your are pool's savior.

You guys are playing mini golf and it ain't saving the APA!

You don't do anything for the old timers and guys who play real pool. Christ you'd make anybody who owns a cue an APA 7.

 

[SBC]

You can have it your way in your place. There's plenty of people to go around. I don't understand the hostility toward the people who find value in the league product. They're down the road, out of your hair. Let them do what they want. Sounds like they're doing you a favor.

I grew up with both styles of pool. They are different, for good reason too, but there's no reason they can't coexist.

They don't coexist..

Because guys like my competitor and the league operator forbid people to play outside of their room ( follow the money).

This happened in several areas in upstate NY.


What are you gonna do when another league comes in your backyard and they want to host at the room you work with?
They want 8 ball on Wednesday nights and you can't have the room fir your league. You're out 120 a week, players are going to go with the other league. You tell me you aren't going to make an ultimatum to the room? I mean it's your livelihood right?

So keep all your saving pool nonsense for someone else. I know better. You are a cog in a corporation that is after the almighty dollar, selling a product.. There's corporations taking over every nearly every amateur sporting endeavor now from hockey, soccer, gymnastics and on and on.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

If you come between a league operator and their money....it gets ugly. Guy here agreed to have us host APA then the other room in town threatened to start TAP if he allowed us to host. Then the APA operator backed out of our arrangement. He has 3 counties and just under 200 teams. Similar power moves pulled all over the country with these guys controlling where players play.

I don't need their money, but I'm very much the exception. I don't own a room to get rich, have a very good day job. People want to see my room fail, it might someday, but on my terms. Meanwhile I have a great room with quality tables for the old timers and diehard players that the league and fancy pool hall don't care about.


Heres all you need to understand about leagues to know what a drain they are on pool:

We have 1 American pro making over 100k a year off pool.
Meanwhile there are dozens of league ops making more. And the APA takes at least 30% nationally. How much money is that? What good could be done for pool with that money, except to versus fund the founders and corporation?

Someone tried to convince me to Join their APA League in PHX, I call the operator, got told the APA to join, weekly dues, etc.

Then I asked about cash payout at seasons end. Was told Trophies, like cash was dirty word.

Replied thank you for info. Hanging up phone.