Side Pockets - Gold Crown IV vs Diamond Professional

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
are there any posters out there that have alot of experience playing on both the Gold Crown IV and the Diamond Professional tables?

the reason i am asking is i'd like to know if there are any differences in the way the side pockets play on these tables? the side pockets on my GCIV just absolutely kill me! seems like they just want to spit balls out, about like a pinball machine at times.

i noticed last night so many times off the break balls would hit the side pockets and bounce out. and a couple of times i hit angled shots into the side pockets and they just wouldnt fall. one time i just stood there and stared in disbelief as the ball hit the one edge of the pocket, bounced to the other side, and wouldnt fall in.

i think the side pockets could be part of the reason why, at times, i just dont make anything on the break. and, again, when this happens i start to get frustrated at not getting a chance, the gloom and doom starts, etc, etc, and i am back into that negative, pessimistic mode.

so, any posters out there play on both? which table do you prefer as far as the side pockets go?

DCP

p.s. again, serious replies only, save the jokes, please.
 
DCP,
I play about half the time on a GCIV (double shimmed) and the Diamond Pro's. I find the Diamond side pockets considerably more difficult (slightly tighter and a little deeper than on the GCIV).


You can check easily to see if you have a problem. Take the cue ball, put it in the rack area exactly where one of the corner balls would be in a 15 ball rack. Fire the cue ball into the side pockets several times. If you can fire it in even once or twice your side pockets are okay, and the problem is not with the table (you have to be very precise of course). If you can't get the cueball to stay down even once in 5 or 10 tries you may have a table problem (but DOUBTFUL if S.D. did your table). Good luck.
 
"Fire the cueball?"

ok, Willie, what exactly, or how hard, do i hit it? if i hit it hard from that angle it wont ever go in. if i baby it up there, to the point where its almost stopped, it might wobble and fall in.

medium speed? dunno, have to see.

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
are there any posters out there that have alot of experience playing on both the Gold Crown IV and the Diamond Professional tables?

the reason i am asking is i'd like to know if there are any differences in the way the side pockets play on these tables? the side pockets on my GCIV just absolutely kill me! seems like they just want to spit balls out, about like a pinball machine at times.

i noticed last night so many times off the break balls would hit the side pockets and bounce out. and a couple of times i hit angled shots into the side pockets and they just wouldnt fall. one time i just stood there and stared in disbelief as the ball hit the one edge of the pocket, bounced to the other side, and wouldnt fall in.

i think the side pockets could be part of the reason why, at times, i just dont make anything on the break. and, again, when this happens i start to get frustrated at not getting a chance, the gloom and doom starts, etc, etc, and i am back into that negative, pessimistic mode.

so, any posters out there play on both? which table do you prefer as far as the side pockets go?

DCP

p.s. again, serious replies only, save the jokes, please.
Click to expand...

The pockets on the Diamond Pro are significantly tighter than the typical GC4. That doesn't support your concerns, I know. Maybe you are just having a bad run of breaks.

Try playing on a Diamond Pro for awhile, then I think you'll find the GC4 pockets quite accomodating.
 
i am not really talking about the "Tightness" of the side pockets. what i am really referring to is the balls hitting the side pockets and being spit out instead of falling in. especially when it just seems really obvious that the ball should have fell in.

i am trying to find out if the Diamond Pro table's side pockets spit balls back out like the Gold Crown IV's side pockets?

DCP
 
The diamond tables side pockets are definately tougher,i play on a trip shimmed Diamond and it can be discouraging,making a ball on the break especially playing the one ball in the side 9 ball break,but i love it for one hole!;)
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
are there any posters out there that have alot of experience playing on both the Gold Crown IV and the Diamond Professional tables?

the reason i am asking is i'd like to know if there are any differences in the way the side pockets play on these tables? the side pockets on my GCIV just absolutely kill me! seems like they just want to spit balls out, about like a pinball machine at times.

i noticed last night so many times off the break balls would hit the side pockets and bounce out. and a couple of times i hit angled shots into the side pockets and they just wouldnt fall. one time i just stood there and stared in disbelief as the ball hit the one edge of the pocket, bounced to the other side, and wouldnt fall in.

i think the side pockets could be part of the reason why, at times, i just dont make anything on the break. and, again, when this happens i start to get frustrated at not getting a chance, the gloom and doom starts, etc, etc, and i am back into that negative, pessimistic mode.

so, any posters out there play on both? which table do you prefer as far as the side pockets go?

DCP

p.s. again, serious replies only, save the jokes, please.
Click to expand...


DCP

do you have drop pockets? if you do look at the distance between the
slate shelf and back of pockets, the smaller the distance the more likley
the ball will bounce out after hitting back of pocket.
 
its not the back of the pocket.
its the balls hitting the side of the pocket - the cushion - and bouncing out instead of just falling in.

this has been killing me lately. i'm almost afraid to shoot anything into the side pockets, unless its straight in, or close to it.

DCP
 
I grew up playing on Gold Crown 4s so I have a love for them. It's mainly what my local pool halls had with the exception of one. And they had K-stills but only played there here and there.

I recently found a pool hall nearbye that had Diamonds that I play at sometimes. I have trouble making the corner pockets. It spits so many of my balls out. I was alright with the corners but I have an easier time making 90degree cuts into sides than I can straight shots.

While playing on the Diamond table I noticed something. It seemed the end of the cushion had an odd turn to it. I'm not so sure how to describe it. But basically the bumper was straight all the way till about 2-3" before the corner pocket. Then it looked like it had a slight curve that you could only notice if you looked at it hard. Almost like a snooker curve. Then it of course cut straight back into the pocket. Wether that is by accident or design I do not know either. It was the first time I looked at a diamond bumper that hard.

The cloth was worn out so I do not know if that made that big of a difference.

Diamond pockets are also tighter. But have heard that even though Diamond tables have tighter pockets. Gold Crowns are known for spitting more balls out. Something to do with the angle the cushion is cut.

I think it's personel preference. I love Gold Crown 4s.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
its not the back of the pocket.
its the balls hitting the side of the pocket - the cushion - and bouncing out instead of just falling in.

this has been killing me lately. i'm almost afraid to shoot anything into the side pockets, unless its straight in, or close to it.

DCP
Click to expand...

Please just take a picture of the dammm pockets, both w/ & w/ out balls in the mouth:eek:

There have been lots of threads on why side pockets are tough. I think that is what you are discovering for yourself.

When I play on a drop pocket table, I rarely need to pull balls from the side pockets, proving what I already knew: I avoid side pockets, unless it's a duck or there is no other option.

Eeven though they are physically larger than the corners, when you approach them from an angle, the opening gets REALLY small- you did notice that, eh??

Don't worry, we'll sort this out for you- learn to play 1pocket!
 
Is this an "Out of the box" retail Gold Crown with factory cushions and rail setup, or has it been modified? This makes a HUGE difference. My home table (A 9' GC-III clone made by AMF) was re-railed by TableMechanic (The HardTimes table guru) and the side pockets are not only smaller than a standard GC but the throat angle is narrower and the points are sharper.

These combine to make is considerably tougher than a standard GC, especially one with well worn rails as the points of the pockets tend to get very soft and allow balls to slide off them and still drop. Additionally if the pockets have been shimmed, although this makes them smaller it also leads to degradation of the point itself as a "step" between the actual rail and the shim usually develops.

The shelf distance is another important factor. I amazed a friend of mine by making a ball into a GC side pocket from an angle of around 15 degrees on the side rail simply by rolling it right over the center of the side pocket and letting it just fall in, because the shelf drop was so shallow.
 
Sounds like what you're saying is the facing of the side pocket doesn't like to bounce balls into the hole. If it's the pockets, its because they are cupped (pocket facings are concave instead of flat) or because they are cut at a funny angle. If they are cut at a steep agnle from the long rail, it makes for a smaller opening, but the pocket accepts balls better. If they are cut at a shallower angle, the opening looks bigger, but balls hit into the facing at an angle bounce back toward the table instead of in toward the hole.

Does that sound like your table? Post a picture and table mechanics on here can tell you if your pocket cut is normal or if you need to have your cushions redone.

-Andrew
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
"Fire the cueball?"

ok, Willie, what exactly, or how hard, do i hit it? if i hit it hard from that angle it wont ever go in. if i baby it up there, to the point where its almost stopped, it might wobble and fall in.

medium speed? dunno, have to see.

DCP
Click to expand...

DCP,
FIRE THAT SUCKER AT TOP SPEED (ie. 4 rail speed - the speed at which the cue ball struck from the foot spot to the head rail will then travel at least 4 lengths of the table). On the Diamond Pro (even with the tight pockets) I can pocket the cue ball in the side at least 9/10 times. If you can do it once, but not 9/10; there is something wrong with your stroke. If you can't do it even once there MAY be something wrong with your side pockets (though VERY doubtful), or there may be something seriously wrong with your stroke.
 
I can't help myself. I have to respond seriously.

DrCue'sProtege said:
are there any posters out there that have alot of experience playing on both the Gold Crown IV and the Diamond Professional tables?
...
the side pockets on my GCIV just absolutely kill me! seems like they just want to spit balls out, about like a pinball machine at times.
...
one time i just stood there and stared in disbelief as the ball hit the one edge of the pocket, bounced to the other side, and wouldnt fall in.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've played a lot on both. Gold crown side pockets = buckets. Diamond pro side pockets = tight but fair.

This is the first time I've ever heard someone complain about gold crown side pockets. it's like someone crying over valley barbox corner pockets. If they are spitting out balls, you're hitting them bad. Accountability's a *****.

Sometimes if the side pocket is screwed up, you can't get away with hitting a ball bad and it going in, which is the scenario you describe.

DrCue'sProtege said:
i noticed last night so many times off the break balls would hit the side pockets and bounce out. and a couple of times i hit angled shots into the
...
i think the side pockets could be part of the reason why, at times, i just dont make anything on the break.
Click to expand...

I'm starting to understand why you whine about your break so much. It's because you have no idea what you're doing. If you disagree or think I'm just making fun of you, that's fine - ask around.
 
Egg McDogit said:
... it's like someone crying over valley barbox corner pockets. If they are spitting out balls, you're hitting them bad.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree here. It is not ALWAYS the shooters fault if a ball is spat out, specifically if the ball bounces back out off the back of the pocket when hit at a perfectly normal speed without touching the sides of the pocket at all. I've played on several tables, mostly furniture style tables, that have exhibited this tendancy.

Other tables (A particularly obstreperous GC II I play on regularly comes to mind) have just one pocket that will always spit ANY shot no matter how well aimed that is travelling at more than pocket speed. The fact that only one pocket out of 6 does this indicates that a level of variance in both manufacturing and maintencance of table can cause unplesant randomness in the pocket's response.
 
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