Silly BCA eight ball question

dabarbr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Talking with my teammates yesterday one of the guys asked this silly question.
You just broke the balls playing eight ball with BCA rules. You made all the solids on the break and the eight ball is still on the table.
Question is, can you now shoot at the eight since you still haven't established a set yet by pocketing another ball? If so, what happens if you miss it?
 

SureShot21

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hahahaha! Well the law of pool physics says if you make all the solids, you will not have a shot at the 8 so the question is invalid. Just kidding, I think you could make the 8 because the suit is cleared.
 

nateobot

Undercover FBI Agent
Silver Member
Solids or stripes groups are not determined until the first shot after the break. Since the 8 is not considered a part of the solid or stripe groups, the only option you have is to take stripes, or play safe and hope the other person can't run them out.
 

Tronpocket

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Im thinking ...if this did occur....and your were permitted to shoot at the 8 ball (under bca the rules), but didnt make it ..... your opponent can shoot at it (8) too because you actually didnt establish your ball group....maybe?:scratchhead:
Ah ..the grey areas of pool.


If the rules are that you must establish a ball group....a called safe off a stripe would give your opponent the other group?...(or is it first ball made) ....which doesnt exist ...so he/shes on the 8 from the start. Best bet would be just give up ball in hand or not hit anything. So your on the 8 but your opponent has control of the table.....interesting.
 
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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Talking with my teammates yesterday one of the guys asked this silly question.
You just broke the balls playing eight ball with BCA rules. You made all the solids on the break and the eight ball is still on the table.
Question is, can you now shoot at the eight since you still haven't established a set yet by pocketing another ball? If so, what happens if you miss it?

Aside from the practical impossibility of this happening, it's a nice question that can lead into some interesting rule interpreting.

I'd have to agree with the other poster about it being an open table at this point.

Since you have to pick stripes, you better hope that you have an open shot, and with all solids off the tables the chances are good.

I would say in this situation, even though it's not very fair that it happened that way, given at least a semi-skilled player (say a B-), they would still have a good chance of winning even if they had to clear all the other balls before the 8.
 

Skippy27

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When you break and make the 8 you have not established a set either and you win, so I am not sure how this would be considered any different.

I would say at the time that you have sank the 8, you have established solids and won the game. But I am not a schmuck so I can't speak for all those here that are that will look for an out for losing instead of granting a win for a very difficult job well done.

I personally made 5 solids (almost 6) and scratched before. Needless to say the guy took about 20 seconds to run the remaining 3 balls that were all sitting wide open and either in a pocket or close enough to one to win. Besides an 8 on the break it was probably the fastest game of all balls of one suite being legally dropped then the 8 I will probably ever experience.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the APA you do.

But, in the APA you also take whatever balls you make as yours, so if you sink all of a suit only, you are that suit, then shooting the 8 is fine to win. This was about BCA rules where it's open after the break.

In BCA and WPA rules, and most other leagues, you don't establish your suit till you legally sink a called shot after the break. If you make a ball and scratch, table is still open (except in TAP, you can make a ball, scratch, and still be that suit).
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Aside from the practical impossibility of this happening, it's a nice question that can lead into some interesting rule interpreting.

In reality, making 7 low balls on the break can actually happen....
...I've seen Wiseman make 5 low balls....and I've heard of 7 balls made on the break.

Common sense says that such an excellent break should not be penalized...
...so the breaker should win when he knocks in the 8-ball.

The rules should eliminate this Catch 22.
The breaker should be able to claim the group made, or shoot the other group.
 

JasBy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A similar situation could more often happen that a breaker makes 5 on the break and on the ensuing shot pockets both remaining balls of that type (let's assume one was hanging in a pocket) and fouls. Now can the shooter approaching the table take BIH and drop the 8?
 

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Solids or stripes groups are not determined until the first shot after the break. Since the 8 is not considered a part of the solid or stripe groups, the only option you have is to take stripes, or play safe and hope the other person can't run them out.

This.

You would have to choose the only group on the table and run them. Hopefully, you can run seven balls that are wide open.
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
Not to hi-jack Dabarbr's thread but it looks like he got some good replies, but I have another question about BCA 8 Ball.

If you make a stripe on the break and the table is still open, (the table is always open after the break) can you make a stripe on the shot after the break but call safe (and do you still have stripes, after the shot, SINCE YOU CALLED SAFE)?

JoeyA
 

nateobot

Undercover FBI Agent
Silver Member
Not to hi-jack Dabarbr's thread but it looks like he got some good replies, but I have another question about BCA 8 Ball.

If you make a stripe on the break and the table is still open, (the table is always open after the break) can you make a stripe on the shot after the break but call safe (and do you still have stripes, after the shot, SINCE YOU CALLED SAFE)?

JoeyA

When you are making a shot, you call the shot you are making. If you aren't calling the ball and intended pocket, then you can't possibly 'win' that grouping of balls. I think the rule says something to the effect of legally pocketing your called shot and in this case you are calling "safe", not "striped ball in corner".
 

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
This actually happened to a teammate who I would consider a weak B-.

She (yes she) breaks and makes 5 stripes and no solids. Both stripes and 8 ball are wide open but would require almost table length shots with good CB control. She takes a time out and I advice her to make a easy solid and play safe (my assumption was she could not run out either group). 30 minute safety battle later she wins and the opponent still has both his balls on the table. Sometimes wrong is right.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Not to hi-jack Dabarbr's thread but it looks like he got some good replies, but I have another question about BCA 8 Ball.

If you make a stripe on the break and the table is still open, (the table is always open after the break) can you make a stripe on the shot after the break but call safe (and do you still have stripes, after the shot, SINCE YOU CALLED SAFE)?

JoeyA

Another good argument for last-pocket 8-ball ......NO call shots.
 

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Twice I have made 6 balls on an 8 ball break. 4 and 2, and one time 6 stripes. The 9 ball was on the rail near the side pocket. The cue ball was in the jaws of the diagonal corner pocket. I missed lol.

Also, a male 2 on my team once made 7 balls on an 8 ball break. On a 9' table also. Unreal.

My point is that if I can make 6 stripes only on the break, it seems likely that someone, sometime, has made 7.

KMRUNOUT
 

ne14tennis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BCA rules

To answer 2 questions:
1. If you make all the balls of one suit, yes you may make the 8 and win. If you miss the 8.....the table is still open.

2. To the other question about making stripes on the break and then playing safe, would the player have stripes? No. You can't establish a group with a safety. The table would still be open
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the BCA rule book in the back under clarifications and rulings: there is a paragraph where if the groups have not been established by the time one group is completely gone, either player may shoot at the 8-ball.
 
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