Simonis 860/300 on 7 footers

D

daveb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stop it!

In my opinion, this cloth was designed for nine foot tables and the game of nine ball in order to facilitate position play where you are required to move the cue ball long distances around the table for position and to allow more aggressive offensive play, speed up the game for television, and compensate for players who don't really have a natural, or highly developed, power stroke. It was NOT intended for installation on little seven footers used for league play. When this is done, it transforms the elegance of pool into a pinball game. Try and slow roll a thin cut where the cue ball hits a rail; the ball will go a table length and a half beyond your intention, with the softest of hits.
I'm sure most of you will just interpret this as the whining of of a poor loser; but in my area, more tavern owners are installing this cloth on small tables for league play and it turns the game into crap shoot of lucky, or unlucky, rolls.

Stop it, dam**t!!!!
 
Too Funny!!

I have tried to stay calm while dealing with the same dumb sh_t in Houston...., I dont get it! No boby plays good under these conditions. I too hate it!!
 
daveb said:
Stop it!

In my opinion, this cloth was designed for nine foot tables and the game of nine ball in order to facilitate position play where you are required to move the cue ball long distances around the table for position and to allow more aggressive offensive play, speed up the game for television, and compensate for players who don't really have a natural, or highly developed, power stroke. It was NOT intended for installation on little seven footers used for league play. When this is done, it transforms the elegance of pool into a pinball game. Try and slow roll a thin cut where the cue ball hits a rail; the ball will go a table length and a half beyond your intention, with the softest of hits.
I'm sure most of you will just interpret this as the whining of of a poor loser; but in my area, more tavern owners are installing this cloth on small tables for league play and it turns the game into crap shoot of lucky, or unlucky, rolls.

Stop it, dam**t!!!!
Click to expand...

I feel your pain.

Tink...tink...tink...tink...

That's what I feel like when I'm playing on a fast bar table. You just baby every single shot. I'm beginning to get used to it, but I sure do hate it.

I've found you really have to work on your slow-roll stroke as opposed to your stun-through stroke. I was really lacking in the slow-roll department. The fast bar table really brought that to my attention.
 
It's been the norm for a few years in the Charleston SC area. You just don't need to be fancy... play position with stun shots and tangent lines. I can understand the aggravation, but it's just one more thing to get used to. You can also use spin to kill speed off of rails. Playing with the 5.5" pockets on typical bar tables allows a lot of spin and stop shot position routes that would be ill advised on a big table with 4.5" or smaller pockets.
 
DallasHopps said:
It's been the norm for a few years in the Charleston SC area. You just don't need to be fancy... play position with stun shots and tangent lines. I can understand the aggravation, but it's just one more thing to get used to. You can also use spin to kill speed off of rails. Playing with the 5.5" pockets on typical bar tables allows a lot of spin and stop shot position routes that would be ill advised on a big table with 4.5" or smaller pockets.
Click to expand...

I have won many bets in certain poolrooms betting the valley barboxes had smaller pockets than the big tables there. Its the way they are cut that makes the pockets seem like buckets. They are less than 5". Many diamond barboxes are around 4 1/2". I quit for over 15 years, and almost all cloth was slow nap and valleys and dinamos, and when I started back it seems everyone is playing on diamonds with 860 simonis. Its a finese game now, and diamonds and fast cloth play much easier than the old slow valleys, if nothing more than making balls easier on the break, and no need for a powerfull stroke. I do agree, they are to fast for most, and simonis needs to make a cloth slower than 860 for the barboxes.
 
I agree 860 is too fast for a Valley 7'. A lot of people like it though. Try fast cloth and Ridgeback rails on a Valley and you do have a pinball machine. I put the old backed slow cloth on mine and it plays great. Johnnyt
 
I've got a 7' Diamond Pro/Am with Simonis 860. I wouldn't want it any other way. It's consistent, durable, and plays like a dream. i can always hit them harder on nappier cloth...


:cool:
 
daveb said:
Stop it!

In my opinion, this cloth was designed for nine foot tables and the game of nine ball in order to facilitate position play where you are required to move the cue ball long distances around the table for position and to allow more aggressive offensive play, speed up the game for television, and compensate for players who don't really have a natural, or highly developed, power stroke. It was NOT intended for installation on little seven footers used for league play. When this is done, it transforms the elegance of pool into a pinball game. Try and slow roll a thin cut where the cue ball hits a rail; the ball will go a table length and a half beyond your intention, with the softest of hits.
I'm sure most of you will just interpret this as the whining of of a poor loser; but in my area, more tavern owners are installing this cloth on small tables for league play and it turns the game into crap shoot of lucky, or unlucky, rolls.

Stop it, dam**t!!!!
Click to expand...
Get your hall owners to contact me and I'll explain the differences to them. Most people think that more expensive is better, and in some cases it is. But when it comes to Simonis cloth, there are differences for a reason. Each one is specifically engineered for a specific mode of play. I sell Simonis both wholesale and retail, and my email is in my signature.
 
While I agree with the premis that 860 is too fast for a 7 foot table, in general:

But, if you have a game developed on fast cloth then the size of the table is practically immaterial.

It is when you do not have a game fully developed on fast cloth that you get into trouble. You lack the delicasy to hit the ball precisely and slowly at the same time.
 
DelaWho??? said:
I've got a 7' Diamond Pro/Am with Simonis 860. I wouldn't want it any other way. It's consistent, durable, and plays like a dream. i can always hit them harder on nappier cloth...


:cool:
Click to expand...

That's exactly what we play on in league. And we've been at the same bar for years for that very reason. I love fast cloth, fast rails, and deep pockets. :cool:
 
Webbs Billiards said:
Get your hall owners to contact me and I'll explain the differences to them. Most people think that more expensive is better, and in some cases it is. But when it comes to Simonis cloth, there are differences for a reason. Each one is specifically engineered for a specific mode of play. I sell Simonis both wholesale and retail, and my email is in my signature.
Click to expand...


What would you recommend for an 8ft home table? (Vitalie... in case it matters) I was thinking of installing simonis 860 as well sometime soon. I'm a beginner though so I don't know the differences between cloths except their reputation. My table currently has Mali 21 oz. Thx in advance!


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My only complaint about 860 on bar box's is it wares fast. In reality, it's a bar box, the most inconsistent tables of them all.. you learn to adapt. Play them enough and it won't matter what cloth you're on.
 
MitchAlsup said:
While I agree with the premis that 860 is too fast for a 7 foot table, in general:

But, if you have a game developed on fast cloth then the size of the table is practically immaterial.

It is when you do not have a game fully developed on fast cloth that you get into trouble. You lack the delicasy to hit the ball precisely and slowly at the same time.
Click to expand...

A valuable skill indeed.

Makes me wonder if the term ball banger was the result of supre nappy cloth on the typical barbox


:cool:
 
I play in North Charleston, SC and everywhere but one or two bars has the regular, thicker green cloth. I have played at STB in Myrtle Beach and the Diamond 7ft'ers there are unreal awesome, but when the tables here put the Simonis on, its way too fast. Shady Lady has decent speed tables, but the place is suspect as far as the crowd goes. Too many shootings.

Players Place in West Ashley has this cloth speed issue. You can't even shoot there if you need to play into a rail for shape. If you lag the cue ball actually comes off the table when it contacts the rail, and then it goes into the air each time it hits the cushion. TERRIBLE!!!

Sandys has the perfect bar table cloth. I can draw, follow play rails easily, and people still complain its too slow, then when you go to a fast table, "It's too fast." Some you can't please.
 
IMO there is no right or wrong here. Some like bar boxes fast and some like them a bit slower than the Simonis cloth makes them. Dry or humid conditions where the table is has a lot to do with how fast it plays. If it's very humid and you have good fast rails on a Valley the balls are going to get air bound unless you hit them slower than normal. To me playing on bar tables was a challenge. Tables just down the street could play much different. Even in a multi table rooms table with the same cloth and rails can play a lot differnt. If one or two are right under a strong a/c vent they will play shorter and more bouncy than the rest in the room. If you were gabling on differnt tables and places all the time you needed to figure the table quickly. Then you have the tightness or loosness of the cloth that can play into the speed. There is a lot to it. Anyone can cover a bar table and slap new rails on it. But you have to understand where the table is. Johnnyt
 
they recovered the valleys at my fav room last month. i do not know what cloth was used but they sure are a lot faster !

being an old bar banger i do not complain about playing conditions. i learned early in life to adapt to the way the tables played when i hopped from bar to bar for a lil action, no 2 tables played the same lol.

last year i went to my apa regional singles and went 2 and out. they had diamonds which i had never played on before and they had been recently recovered. they were extremely fast for me and i had to learn them while i was playing in the tournament. the cueball never went where i expected it to but i went hill -hill in both my matches.

this year i went back knowing what to expect from the tables and went undefeated all the way to the finals where i lost hill-hill resulting in me coming in 2nd place. its all about learning the tables and adapting.

actually i love playing on different tables and environments when i can. i think it improves your overall game.
 
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