Well....I am recovering my tables next month. I am (as always) putting Simonis #860 HR on the tables. Some of my guys are trying to get me to go to the "Blue 860 HR" instead of the "Green 860 HR". I assume it "plays" the same. My concern is how does it "wear" and "clean up". I regularly "damp cloth" the tables. So my question "IS"...in a commercial operation after months of use (periodically getting "over- powdered", spills etc..etc..) which one will "wear" better ???
Simonis #860 HR
- Thread starter Red Shoes
- Start date
We got blue and green Simonis and Granito in our room....
...I see no difference in the maintenance.
But we use a vacuum and a micro fiber cloth for cleaning....
..I think making the tables wet by using a damp cloth is a bad idea.
I've had the T blue HR on a my GC4 for about 3 years. A group of AZers that come over for my annual tournament still ask why I never use my pool table, LOL. 
The white burn marks seem somewhat fainter on the T blue imho, so the cloth appears newer longer. As far as just overall durability I would assume there is no difference between the green or blue.
My maintenance ritual (home table though, not commercial) is to brush it and clean the balls after every session. Occasionally (once a month or so) I vacuum, then wipe down with a damp micro-cloth. And the table is always covered when not in use.
For a pool room though, you also may want to consider the different "look" it will create for the room if all the tables are changed to blue. But I'm sure you've considered that.
Maybe do it in two stages. Try blue on a few tables and after all the regulars have tried the new cloth see which they prefer color-wise.
The white burn marks seem somewhat fainter on the T blue imho, so the cloth appears newer longer. As far as just overall durability I would assume there is no difference between the green or blue.
My maintenance ritual (home table though, not commercial) is to brush it and clean the balls after every session. Occasionally (once a month or so) I vacuum, then wipe down with a damp micro-cloth. And the table is always covered when not in use.
For a pool room though, you also may want to consider the different "look" it will create for the room if all the tables are changed to blue. But I'm sure you've considered that.
Maybe do it in two stages. Try blue on a few tables and after all the regulars have tried the new cloth see which they prefer color-wise.
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I am considering doing my table GC over at home. I couldn't decide between the green or blue. After playing on the blue, for me, it is not as easy on the eye for extended periods of time playing.
It made my decision easy. Green for me. For a pool room I think you might look into what color is easier on the eye for most people.
It made my decision easy. Green for me. For a pool room I think you might look into what color is easier on the eye for most people.
Never used 860HR but have had Simonis Green and Tournament Blue 860 on my table and I prefer the Tournament Blue.
There is no wrong answer here, but I actually think that the tourney blue is easier on the eyes - at least my eyes. Can't go wrong with the HR as far as I can tell either. I made the switch from regular 860 to 860 HR about 6 months ago and I really like the HR. It does seem to show burn marks a bit less, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.
Cheers and good luck.
Here is what Simonis says on their website about cleaning their cloth:
"The cloth can be brushed, but to remove the chalk and talc powders, it can be cleaned with the new Simonis X-1® or it can be carefully vacuumed with a non-rotating brush-head attachment that does not allow for too much suction to be formed. Some small vacuums can pick up bowling balls, but this will only stretch the cloth on the table and possibly harm the grouting of the slates as well. You should test your vacuum and brush attachment off of the table first to make certain that it is not going to damage the play surface. Less is more in this department. After all, you are trying to remove a fine powder from a smooth cloth, so don't overdo it. The Simonis X-1®, is a new device that will allow you to keep your cloth in great playing condition and extent the cloth's life.
The cloth can also be wiped with a damp (not wet) clean towel. This should only be done after the table has been vacuumed otherwise the dampness may cause the chalk dust to clump together (think of it as adding water to dry clay). Once the dampness has evaporated, a quick brushing is all you will need before playing as moisture will cause the fibers in the cloth to stand up and a quick brushing will smooth things out."
The cloth can also be wiped with a damp (not wet) clean towel. This should only be done after the table has been vacuumed otherwise the dampness may cause the chalk dust to clump together (think of it as adding water to dry clay). Once the dampness has evaporated, a quick brushing is all you will need before playing as moisture will cause the fibers in the cloth to stand up and a quick brushing will smooth things out."
Yeah, the "wet" cloth is not an issue. You simply fully wring it out the towel. The bed cloth doesn't even get wet to any significant degree. The moisture simply provides some adhesion for the cloth to pick up loose chalk dust. The table is completely dry in less than 5 minutes, if that long.
Gents....Thanks for the advice on table cloth. I know how to "clean" and maintain a commercial table. A combination of vacuuming, brushing AND damp cloth will yield the best result. Years ago I tried all the "sprays" and "liquids" and was not too impressed. Cleaning a commercial (high use) table is different than one in your home. Some of my tables are played on 15++ hours a day 365 days a year by a whole range of players. This means some have really "oily" hands, use powder (to excess) or are dirty etc..etc.. Being that I currently have 17 tables (had more before I added the bar and kitchen) and I opened in MAY 1995, assuming the tables are cleaned at least once (some more) a day...that is well over 100,000 table cleanings. I was interested in how the "blue" would wear over the course of "months" of "commercial use". Weather stains or powder were harder to remove or would the "blue" show wear faster? Any other "dittys" you guys want to throw in about blue vs. green of course are appreciated.
My big question is........is there any actual difference in the gameplay of the cloth between a normal 860 and the 860 HR?
Red, I'm guessing HR will pretty much wear the same regardless of the color, just that in my view the blue will show the wear less than the green. It just seems like ball burns, chalk and powder blend in to the blue better. Ball burns certainly seem less noticeable on the blue cloth.
BTW, I have no doubt you know how to take care of your tables. I just added my cleaning regimen so you would have a perspective when I mentioned my T blue still looks good after 3 years. Maintenance has something to do with it regardless of what cloth is on the table so I just thought it important to mention how mine is cared for. I wasn't trying to tell you something I didn't think you already knew.
Fathom - as I recall reading in the mechanics section, the HR is a little faster, but in my experience not much. Certainly not like the difference between 860 and 760.
BTW, I have no doubt you know how to take care of your tables. I just added my cleaning regimen so you would have a perspective when I mentioned my T blue still looks good after 3 years. Maintenance has something to do with it regardless of what cloth is on the table so I just thought it important to mention how mine is cared for. I wasn't trying to tell you something I didn't think you already knew.
Fathom - as I recall reading in the mechanics section, the HR is a little faster, but in my experience not much. Certainly not like the difference between 860 and 760.
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I read that the HR has a slightly higher nylon % than the regular 860 so it should play slightly faster than the 860 but still slower than the 760.
I think 860 is something like 90/10 and HR is more like 70/30.
I heard the same..... the 860 HR is between the 760 and the 860 as far as speed.
860 is 85/15 and 760 is 75/25, my guess is 860HR is 80/20.
Simonis 860HR™ (high resistance).
The most durable commercial-grade billiard cloth made. Heavier than 760, napless and tough as nails. Currently available in Simonis Green™, Blue-Green, Tournament Blue™ and Royal Blue.
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Simonis 860™ - The New Standard for Pool (Worsted)
Developed especially for 9-Ball.
Slightly Slower than the #760 Blend.
Combed worsted wool, high thread count and higher wool content assure long lasting wear and reduced ball burning.
Nap-free... will not pill, fluff or shed.
From what I gather from talking to Simonis, HR is basically the same as 860 yet its more resistant to heavy usage such as bar tables.
I've noticed that younger players would rather have the brighter colors, where older players say it hurts their eyes. I prefer darker colors myself.