Simonis 860HR Shortage?

[DJKeys]

Just an update, after two weeks of play, about 3 hours a day, the 30/30 cloth shows absolutely no ball marks whatsoever using Aramith Duramith Tournament balls. The slideyness is gone and my table plays much better than it did with the 860HR. Both cloths have the same specs, 70 wool, 30 nylon, 24 oz, but they play and wear completely differently.

-dj

 

[GentlemanJames]

Just an update, after two weeks of play, about 3 hours a day, the 30/30 cloth shows absolutely no ball marks whatsoever using Aramith Duramith Tournament balls. The slideyness is gone and my table plays much better than it did with the 860HR. Both cloths have the same specs, 70 wool, 30 nylon, 24 oz, but they play and wear completely differently.

-dj

Glad to hear you found the alternative cloth that works for you!

As I been harping on-and-on about, Weave Pattern and Quality Control in creating the cloth is equally important to performance and durability as Blend and Weight. - GJ

 

[phreaticus]

Just an update, after two weeks of play, about 3 hours a day, the 30/30 cloth shows absolutely no ball marks whatsoever using Aramith Duramith Tournament balls. The slideyness is gone and my table plays much better than it did with the 860HR. Both cloths have the same specs, 70 wool, 30 nylon, 24 oz, but they play and wear completely differently.

-dj

Thanks for the update. If its not too much trouble, could you please elaborate a bit on the difference/improvement you feel vs 860 HR?

I have 860 on my table, and it feels different than than similar tables at poolhalls and I assume this is because most commercial places use 860 HR. Its not a speed thing - cloth on my home table feels thinner, sort of like the surface is harder somehow. I was planning on trying HR, but am now curious to try the 30/30.

Thanks

 

[DJKeys]

Thanks for the update. If its not too much trouble, could you please elaborate a bit on the difference/improvement you feel vs 860 HR?

I have 860 on my table, and it feels different than than similar tables at poolhalls and I assume this is because most commercial places use 860 HR. Its not a speed thing - cloth on my home table feels thinner, sort of like the surface is harder somehow. I was planning on trying HR, but am now curious to try the 30/30.

Thanks

Well, there is a difference between 860 and 860HR, but the difference for me between the 860HR and the 30/30 is that the 30/30 weave appears tighter, the cloth feels slicker to the touch and it is definitely faster. The color is nearly identical.

-dj

 

[GentlemanJames]

Thanks for the update. If its not too much trouble, could you please elaborate a bit on the difference/improvement you feel vs 860 HR?

I have 860 on my table, and it feels different than than similar tables at poolhalls and I assume this is because most commercial places use 860 HR. Its not a speed thing - cloth on my home table feels thinner, sort of like the surface is harder somehow. I was planning on trying HR, but am now curious to try the 30/30.

Thanks

PHREATICUS - Remember, 860 and 860HR have very different blend ratios (See Post #16 for details); whereas 860HR and 3030 share the same blend ratio and weight. Also, 860 is 1 ounce lighter than both 860HR and 3030; so yes, 860 should feel thinner to you. - GJ

 

[phreaticus]

PHREATICUS - Remember, 860 and 860HR have very different blend ratios (See Post #16 for details); where as 860HR and 3030 share the same blend ratio and weight. Also, 860 is 1 ounce lighter than both 860HR and 3030; so yes, 860 should feel thinner to you. - GJ

Yep, got it all. Thanks guys

 

[telinoz]

It will be interesting to see if Simonis can fully recover from this after so many people are forced to use other less expensive cloth and find it's as good or better in so many ways. Demand may soon equal supply.

This has kind of taken over in Australia:

CPBA Competition Pool Table Cloth 7ft Blue Green - Cpba

CPBA Competition Pool Table Cloth 7ft Blue Green - Cpba

www.cueworld.com.au

Some places use Andy cloth as well.

It's hard to find a room here still using Simonis.
More, privately owned tables have them these days - but most players will cover their tables to match what they have to play on in tournaments.

I love Simonis cloth.
But, I have found, if I'm being fair that the CPBA competition cloth play's just as well.

 

[GentlemanJames]

This has kind of taken over in Australia:

CPBA Competition Pool Table Cloth 7ft Blue Green - Cpba

CPBA Competition Pool Table Cloth 7ft Blue Green - Cpba

www.cueworld.com.au

I've added the specs for both CPBA's Competition cloth and their Pyramid cloth to the comparative list on Post #16. - GJ

 

[telinoz]

I've added the specs for both CPBA's Competition cloth and their Pyramid cloth to the comparative list on Post #16. - GJ

Nice, sounds good.

 

[phreaticus]

I've added the specs for both CPBA's Competition cloth and their Pyramid cloth to the comparative list on Post #16. - GJ

Thanks for the specs summary& updates. I had similar notes but yours are cleaner

 

[evolution03]

Just an update, after two weeks of play, about 3 hours a day, the 30/30 cloth shows absolutely no ball marks whatsoever using Aramith Duramith Tournament balls. The slideyness is gone and my table plays much better than it did with the 860HR. Both cloths have the same specs, 70 wool, 30 nylon, 24 oz, but they play and wear completely differently.

-dj

What would you was the difference in play ?

 

[DJKeys]

The 30/30 is faster than the 860HR

-dj

 

[evolution03]

So I’m debating on swapping out my cloth and can’t decide if I want the Andy 988 or the championship 30/30. Anybody got any reasons why they would choose one over the other ? Also does anyone know where the championship cloth is made ?

 

[rexus31]

So I’m debating on swapping out my cloth and can’t decide if I want the Andy 988 or the championship 30/30. Anybody got any reasons why they would choose one over the other ? Also does anyone know where the championship cloth is made ?

How do your rails play? If they are zippy, Championship may not be the way to go.

 

[garczar]

So I’m debating on swapping out my cloth and can’t decide if I want the Andy 988 or the championship 30/30. Anybody got any reasons why they would choose one over the other ? Also does anyone know where the championship cloth is made ?

Mexico. https://www.champbilliards.com/about/ Never played on 3030 but i have played a lot on 988 and i really like it. Very similar to HR.

 

[evolution03]

How do your rails play? If they are zippy, Championship may not be the way to go.

It’s a brand New Brunswick table. They came and set it up and I’m pretty sure what they installed was cheap champion cloth. Thanks for your input

 

[GentlemanJames]

It’s a brand New Brunswick table. They came and set it up and I’m pretty sure what they installed was cheap champion cloth. Thanks for your input

Champion offers 12 different cloths across 7 different tiers, with some of the cloths offered with or without backing: Tour Edition 3030, Pro-Am 3020, Valley, Mercury Ultra, Saturn II, Invitational, and, Titan.

Does your invoice indicate which "Champion Cloth" they installed on your table? - GJ

 

[evolution03]

Champion offers 12 different cloths across 7 different tiers, with some of the cloths offered with or without backing: Tour Edition 3030, Pro-Am 3020, Valley, Mercury Ultra, Saturn II, Invitational, and, Titan.

Does your invoice indicate which "Champion Cloth" they installed on your table? - GJ

You know I should check I remember them saying it had Teflon. I know it isn’t the 30/30 because I don’t think it’s worsted. It’s isn’t slow but it isn’t super fast either. It isn’t super fuzzy either like cheap bar table cloth I’ve played on years ago

 

[garczar]

You know I should check I remember them saying it had Teflon. I know it isn’t the 30/30 because I don’t think it’s worsted. It’s isn’t slow but it isn’t super fast either. It isn’t super fuzzy either like cheap bar table cloth I’ve played on years ago

mercury ultra with teflon is good cloth. its a woolen that plays faster than generic woolen cloth. best cloth for a bar table imo. little slow for a 9ft.

 

[GentlemanJames]

mercury ultra with teflon is good cloth. its a woolen that plays faster than generic woolen cloth. best cloth for a bar table imo. little slow for a 9ft.

GARCZAR - I'm glad you brought this one up, because I don't think most people would even look twice at this cloth without shedding some light on what it actually is and what is was designed for, without discussing it here.

And, it might be the right choice for someone looking to recloth and save some money.

Mercury Ultra is a very interesting animal, being a 'hybrid' in terms of how the finish/feel of this cloth is produced. As GARCZAR has pointed-out, Mercury Ultra is a woolen (short fiber), not a worsted wool (long fiber) fabric - like Simonis, et al.

In Mercury Ultra's case, a 19 oz, 75% Woolen, 25% Nylon blend - and here comes the Hybrid part - which is then finished (imagine a finish process of the fibers being burnished to compress and smooth the short fuzzy fibers) to create a woolen cloth which now mimics the feel of the more expensive worsted wool cloths - which is what causes this cloth to play faster than the typical 'fuzzy woolen' found on a bar box; and, what makes Mercury Ultra's price-point far below that of more expensive worsted wool cloths.

Think of this one as the billiard cloth version of the gas/electric hybrid car, not because of the blend/ratio, but because of the finishing process which attempts to give the higher performance finish/feel of expensive worsted wool cloth to less a less expensive to produce woolen cloth.

Excellent post, GARCZAR - GJ