Simonis 860HR Shortage?

perdigao

Registered
Hi everyone,

Does anyone know what is happening to Simonis? I've been trying to buy a Simonis 860HR (8ft Tournament blue) for my Gold Crown III but can't find it anywhere.

I've checked everywhere, and the best answer is that they might be back in the market in November.

I would prefer to use them, but if they are not manufacturing them anymore, I will have to consider something else (Predator Arcadia Reserve comes to mind).
 

DJKeys

Sound Design
Gold Member
Silver Member
There was a flood in their main manufacturing facility:


I just had my table recovered with Championship 30/30. I like it better than the 860HR (which I had before), a little faster and less marks on the cloth. You may want to consider that cloth instead-

-dj
 

GentlemanJames

Well-known member
Last month I went to a room I had never been in before, and I noticed something I had never seen before in 50 years of playing pool. Stitched into the cloth on the top of the foot rail, in Olde English letters, were the words: ANDY 588.

I thought this really odd and novel; and, I failed to notice that ALL the other tables in the place had this on them too - I thought it was special for only the table I was using.

When I went up to counter to pay for my time after I was finished working-out, I asked the guy: "Does that Andy guy who had the hi-run of 588 back on table 8 still come in here?"

Well, the counter guy's eyes popped open and he just about busted a gut; and then, explained to me that since he couldn't get Simonis any longer, he had to get cloth from a company called Andy Cloth; and 588 is their commercial-grade cloth they are using since the shortage.

We had a really good laugh, and I learned that someone other than Simonis makes a decent cloth.

Who knew! - GJ
 
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perdigao

Registered
There was a flood in their main manufacturing facility:


I just had my table recovered with Championship 30/30. I like it better than the 860HR (which I had before), a little faster and less marks on the cloth. You may want to consider that cloth instead-

-dj

Thank you for sharing! I had no idea they had flooding. I will check the Championship 30/30.
 

perdigao

Registered
Last month I went to a room I had never been in before, and I noticed something I had never seen before in 50 years of playing pool. Stitched into the cloth on the top of the foot rail, in Olde English letters, were the words: ANDY 588.

I thought this really odd and novel; and, I failed to notice that ALL the other tables in the place had this on them too - I thought it was special for only the table I was using.

When I went up to counter to pay for my time after I was finished working-out, I asked the guy: "Does that Andy guy who had the hi-run of 588 back on table 8 still come in here?"

Well, the counter guy's eyes popped open and he just about busted a gut; and then, explained to me that since he couldn't get Simonis any longer, he had to get cloth from a company called Andy; and 566 is their commercial-grade cloth they are using since the shortage.

We had a really good laugh, and I learned that someone other than Simonis makes a decent cloth.

Who knew! - GJ

Never heard of 588. Will try to find out more for sure! Thanks!!!
 

bnall

<---Proud Dad
Silver Member
There was a flood in their main manufacturing facility:


I just had my table recovered with Championship 30/30. I like it better than the 860HR (which I had before), a little faster and less marks on the cloth. You may want to consider that cloth instead-

-dj
This......
 

Chip Roberson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Last year I had the 860hr installed on my Centennial. They stated that it's faster, which I think that it is, but that doesn't mean that one can draw the cue ball easier. There is more nylon blended into the cloth and drawing the cue ball long distances just isn't what regular 860 will allow.
Other cloth's to choose from or regular 860 would be my choice.
 

perdigao

Registered
Last year I had the 860hr installed on my Centennial. They stated that it's faster, which I think that it is, but that doesn't mean that one can draw the cue ball easier. There is more nylon blended into the cloth and drawing the cue ball long distances just isn't what regular 860 will allow.
Other cloth's to choose from or regular 860 would be my choice.
Thanks, Chip. Simonis, in general, are extremely hard to find now... I am almost decided on the Champion 30/30 (mentioned above).
 

Joe P.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Championship 30/30 is excellent cloth, had my table redone about a year and a half ago and it still plays like new. Had the previous 30/30 on for 10 years
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
30/30 is good and wears better. you really cant tell much difference. speed changes with all cloths anyway as they age and the humidity in your house.

if you play in leagues or money action then it is best to have the same conditions on your home table if you can.
but if you play well you adjust in a few minutes anyway or should.
 

perdigao

Registered
Thanks, everyone!

Does anyone know the "Tournament Blue" color equivalent for the Championship 30/30 is it the Electric blue?
 

GentlemanJames

Well-known member
You know what I really like about this thread? Not only is everyone so cool to PERDIGAO with their helpful cloth alternative recommendations; but, it serves to show that there actually is a world beyond Simonis - as bad as I feel for their company problems - and, that we don't really have to be slaves to only one cloth company to get the performance, durability, and color-options we want. I've learned a lot by researching the manufacturing specs of different cloths and cloth companies, which I never would have done, if Simonis did not have their flood.

PERDIGAO - If you don't already have them, here are the Simonis Specs for you to use as a base to compare alternative cloths from other manufacturers:

Simonis 860: 90% Wool 10% Nylon, 23oz. Fast
Simonis 860HR: 70% Wool, 30% Nylon 24oz. Faster than 860
Simonis 760: 70% Wool, 30% Nylon, 21oz. Faster than 860HR

Championship Tournament 3030: 70% Wool, 30% Nylon, 24oz.
Championship Pro-Am 3020: 70% Wool, 30% Nylon 21oz.
Championship Carombola: 70% Wool, 30% Nylon 18oz.

Andy 988: 80% Wool, 20% Nylon, 22.5oz.
Andy 900: 75% Wool, 25% Nylon, 21.5oz.
Andy 588: 60% Wool, 40% Nylon+ Acrylonitrile 21.5oz.

Predator Arcadia Select: 65% Wool, 35% Nylon+ 21oz.
Predator Arcadia Reserve: 70% Wool, 30% Nylon+ 22oz.

CPBA Competition Series: 65% Wool, 35% Nylon+ 18oz.
CPBA Pyramid Cloth: 65% Wool, 35% Nylon+ 21.5oz

I spoke with one of the fabric engineers at Champion, and he informed me that they use a 2x2 weave pattern - this means two threads over, two threads under - in a cross-weave pattern to create their cloth. Without boring you beyond belief, the weave of a fabric is made up of not just the weave patter (2x2, 2x1, 1x1, 3x3, 3x2, 3x1, etc), but also, which threads are running which way, this is called the weft and the warp of a fabric (Wifey sews and works with a lot of textiles, that's why I know this LOL!); and this is very important to how a cloth feels and wears.

The problem is, I only was able to learn the weave pattern for the Champion brand cloth, and, I have no weave pattern specs for Simonis, Andy, or Predator.

So, the point is, we could compare 3 cloths - all 70 Wool, 30 Nylon, 24oz - and if they use different weave patterns, they will perform and wear differently. So there is that unknown variable to consider. A fabric coming in at 24oz but using a 6x6 weave pattern is going to be very smooth due to the thinner threads; versus, a 1x1 weave pattern which uses thicker threads.

I hope these numbers and information help you - and don't confuse - in comparing alternative cloths to that which you are already comfortable with, but cannot get.

This has been a very educational exercise, so I'm glad you need new cloth! - GJ
 
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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Last month I went to a room I had never been in before, and I noticed something I had never seen before in 50 years of playing pool. Stitched into the cloth on the top of the foot rail, in Olde English letters, were the words: ANDY 588.

I thought this really odd and novel; and, I failed to notice that ALL the other tables in the place had this on them too - I thought it was special for only the table I was using.

When I went up to counter to pay for my time after I was finished working-out, I asked the guy: "Does that Andy guy who had the hi-run of 588 back on table 8 still come in here?"

Well, the counter guy's eyes popped open and he just about busted a gut; and then, explained to me that since he couldn't get Simonis any longer, he had to get cloth from a company called Andy; and 588 is their commercial-grade cloth they are using since the shortage.

We had a really good laugh, and I learned that someone other than Simonis makes a decent cloth.

Who knew! - GJ

There are a few makers that make a god quality cloth similar in design to the Simonis 860/760, Andy, Championship, CPBA.
 

JoeEdmisten

New member
Hi everyone,

Does anyone know what is happening to Simonis? I've been trying to buy a Simonis 860HR (8ft Tournament blue) for my Gold Crown III but can't find it anywhere.

I've checked everywhere, and the best answer is that they might be back in the market in November.

I would prefer to use them, but if they are not manufacturing them anymore, I will have to consider something else (Predator Arcadia Reserve comes to mind).
I recently found Simonis 860 Tournament Blue for my 9' Diamond on Amazon. A little pricey...but that is the same cloth my local tournament tables have, so I decided to go that route.

Best of luck with your decision
 

perdigao

Registered
You know what I really like about this thread? Not only is everyone so cool to PERDIGAO with their helpful cloth alternative recommendations; but, it serves to show that there actually is a world beyond Simonis - as bad as I fell for their company problems - and, that we don't really have to be slaves to only one cloth company to get the performance, durability, and color-options we want. I've learned a lot by researching the manufacturing specs of different cloths and cloth companies, which I never would have done, if Simonis did not have their flood.

PERDIGAO - If you don't already have them, here are the Simonis Specs for you to use as a base to compare alternative cloths from other manufacturers:

Simonis 860: 90% Wool 10% Nylon, 23oz. Fast
Simonis 860HR: 70% Wool, 30% Nylon 24oz. Faster than 860
Simonis 760: 70% Wool, 30% Nylon, 21oz. Faster than 860HR

Championship Tournament 3030: 70% Wool, 30% Nylon, 24oz.
Championship Pro-Am 3020: 70% Wool, 30% Nylon 21oz.
Championship Carombola: 70% Wool, 30% Nylon 18oz.

Andy 988: 80% Wool, 20% Nylon, 23.5oz.
Andy 900: 75% Wool, 25% Nylon, 24oz.
Andy 866: 60% Wool, 40% Nylon + Acrylonitrile 23oz.

I spoke with one of the fabric engineers at Champion, and he informed me that they use a 2x2 weave pattern - this means two threads over, two threads under - in a cross-weave pattern to create their cloth. Without boring you beyond belief, the weave of a fabric is made up of not just the weave patter (2x2, 2x1, 1x1, 3x3, 3x2, 3x1, etc), but also, which threads are running which way, this is called the weft and the warp of a fabric (Wifey sews and works with a lot of textiles, that's why I know this LOL!); and this is very important to how a cloth feels and wears.

The problem is, I only was able to learn the weave pattern for the Champion brand cloth, and, I have no weave pattern specs for Simonis or Andy.

So, the point is, we could compare 3 cloths - all 70 Wool, 30 Nylon, 24oz - and if they use different weave patterns, they will perform and wear differently. So there is that unknown variable to consider. A fabric coming in at 24oz but using a 6x6 weave pattern is going to be very smooth due to the thinner threads; versus, a 1x1 weave pattern which uses thicker threads.

I hope these numbers and information help you - and don't confuse - in comparing alternative cloths to that which you are already comfortable with, but cannot get.

This has been a very educational exercise, so I'm glad you need new cloth! - GJ
A true Gentleman! Thank you so much for sharing all the information, James! Truly appreciated!!
 
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