Simonis Std Green 860 -- their website Fails so I ask the experts
- Thread starter OTLB
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John, minimum is loose buddy! Cloth can only be installed to one tension, and that's tight, as tight as the installer can install it, any less is loose, and will show up in how the table plays. Maximum tightness can be defined by each installer, minimum can not, as there is no such measurement with any kind of clothOTLB said:
Glen
OTLB
Banned
so one guy can do it tight enough and another even tighter. If someone can do it tight enough, that then would be a minimum, someone else does it tighter then great. There is number to this, you can't say that a guy puts it on as tight as he can and thats OK, thats wrong. If he isn't strong enough it will be loose.
At the carnival when I ring the bell with the hammer its not saying that I am the strongest, only that I am strong enough.
At the carnival when I ring the bell with the hammer its not saying that I am the strongest, only that I am strong enough.
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If a mechanic can't install bed cloths tight enough to keep if from coming loose...then the mechanic needs to find another line of work!!!! Because that same mechanic also wouldn't be able to lift the slates up on the frame of the table. Not everyone is cut out to be a mechanic, nor is everyone cut out to be a mover, so they find the kind of job that fits their skills and strengths. If you can't lift a box weighing 50lbs, you're NOT going to be delivering packages for UPS...period!OTLB said:
Glen
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OTLB
Banned
Exactly my point, so the table is 107, if a person could not pull at least 2.5 inches on the side and an extra 3 on the length its no good?
You don't have to be able to lift 200lbs to move a piece of slate or put it on a table by yourself.
And if you ask UPS they have a maximum because their drivers can only lift so much. They set a min for the exact reason I am asking this question..
You don't have to be able to lift 200lbs to move a piece of slate or put it on a table by yourself.
And if you ask UPS they have a maximum because their drivers can only lift so much. They set a min for the exact reason I am asking this question..
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I have a way of testing a mechanic's ability to stretch the bed cloth, and it's fool proof, so I can tell how much a mechanic can stretch cloth...can you with this line of questioning? I mean John, what is your point? It's NOT Simonis's job to determine the MINIMUM stretch on ANY kind of bed cloth, or any other cloth manufacture for that matter, that is OUR job as mechanic's...IMO!!!OTLB said:
Glen
PS, I think you're either being argumentative, or not understanding my point. The minimum stretch IS the MAXIMUM stretch by any mechanic based on their OWN abilities to pull the cloth tight. So, does that make any since? I guarantee you, you don't install the bed cloth tighter than I do, does that mean you're bed cloth is not tight enough? No, but if the cloth is installed as tight as you can install it, it should be tight enough as to NOT come loose over time, THAT...is the minimum John, and nothing less!
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I'm all eyes:wink:OTLB said:
OTLB
Banned
Ok here we go.
Let’s just say that you can have 4 inches of stretch on a bed for a GC 9 ft table. Surface is 107 so that’s all the cloth you need if you can pull the 4 inches and you want to tack strip it, I mean staple it, I mean glue it, whatever.. Yet as everyone knows when they purchase a piece of bed cloth it is always cut longer than what you need. What a waste isn’t it. This is because no one has addressed this issue until now. At the price of worsted cloth wouldn’t it be better to pay for what you need and not extra. This extra amount is built into the price yield from the sellers which is passed onto us!. We have been talking about keeping hacks out of the business. What do you suppose a hack would do when he see’s that the cloth he just received is short? He would surely screw it up. But give the new guy who really may not be a hack but just learning that short or just enough cloth and he probably just wasted his money because you know he is going to screw it up somewhere.. If he has all that extra cloth he will probably be able to get the cloth on( but not well). Now there is a hurdle that has to be met which would only come from someone who actually knew how to put on the cloth etc. Then when it’s said that it needs to be put on by a professional it would mean something wouldn’t it.
So if there was a std min of stretch established, distributors would rip to that number. This would be known throughout the world as the OTLB factor of course. The number would be less then present, the cloth less, the price less and less guys doing it because they would give up. So you see my little question has enormous ramifications.
This number could be applied to all sizes of tables and is in our best interest to establish. This is not my opinion but really a fact.
Let’s just say that you can have 4 inches of stretch on a bed for a GC 9 ft table. Surface is 107 so that’s all the cloth you need if you can pull the 4 inches and you want to tack strip it, I mean staple it, I mean glue it, whatever.. Yet as everyone knows when they purchase a piece of bed cloth it is always cut longer than what you need. What a waste isn’t it. This is because no one has addressed this issue until now. At the price of worsted cloth wouldn’t it be better to pay for what you need and not extra. This extra amount is built into the price yield from the sellers which is passed onto us!. We have been talking about keeping hacks out of the business. What do you suppose a hack would do when he see’s that the cloth he just received is short? He would surely screw it up. But give the new guy who really may not be a hack but just learning that short or just enough cloth and he probably just wasted his money because you know he is going to screw it up somewhere.. If he has all that extra cloth he will probably be able to get the cloth on( but not well). Now there is a hurdle that has to be met which would only come from someone who actually knew how to put on the cloth etc. Then when it’s said that it needs to be put on by a professional it would mean something wouldn’t it.
So if there was a std min of stretch established, distributors would rip to that number. This would be known throughout the world as the OTLB factor of course. The number would be less then present, the cloth less, the price less and less guys doing it because they would give up. So you see my little question has enormous ramifications.
This number could be applied to all sizes of tables and is in our best interest to establish. This is not my opinion but really a fact.
OTLB
Banned
If i ever encounter the OTLB factor with a 104" cut of 760 for a 9' I am going to be pretty mad!!!My hands hurt bad enough!!Glad to still have you here though!:smile:
I said 107 not 104 and that was not a defined number just the example. thanks Scruffy
John, one of the things my system changes in a mechanic, is it teaches the mechanic to start installing the cloth from the side pockets first, then stretch from the side pockets to the ends of the slate. What you're discribing is stretching from end to end first...with a short bed cloth, then expecting to be able to stretch back to the side pockets with enough slack to finish the side pockets correctly. NOT going to happen! No matter who you are as a mechanic...if you stretch from end to end first...you are not stretching the cloth as tight as it can be stretched because no matter what...you have to leave enough slack in the cloth to come back to the side pockets! My way of installing cloth makes it so you can stretch as hard as you can from the side pockets to the corner pockets, and not have to worry about do you have enough slack to finish the side pockets right.
I'm sorry buddy, I'm just not willing to sacrifice my knuckles to install a shorther than normal bed cloth everytime just to make it harder for a beginner to do this kind of work, and certainly not to save a few pennys in cloth....that I'm NOT paying for in the first place...the customer is!
You need to go back to doing more R&D on this one John
Glen
What does humidity do to a cloth? Does more humidity loosen the cloth? If so, by how much?
I just had a table installed and the cloth (860) is loose around the side pockets. It has been quite humid recently and was wondering if this may have been the cause. I turned on the dehumidifier and it seems like it helped, but want the table redone now!
Perhaps more support for starting cloth installation at the sides; which is how the cloth was installed on the snooker tables where I used play. I'd never seen cloth stretched end-to-end first until my pool table was installed.
In most pool rooms the cloth seems to wear holes in the bed at the corner pocket openings. What causes this.....too tight..too loose..or is it just normal for that area to wear our first?
Are you talking about the slate pocket of the tables? Because that all depends on what kind of tables you're talking about. Or, are you talking about inside the pockets on the facings of the rails? If this is the case, that happens because the facings are either worn out, or 1/8" thick. If the facings were 3/16" neoprene to begin with, that would never happen.
Glen