I remember watching a video of a guy trying to market a rubber tip he made. iirc, the test pilot didn't have the skills to impress anyone to buy one.
Single layer tip questions...........
- Thread starter Vince_Former_BB
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L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
During the 90's I was doing a lot of tips (mostly if not all Le Pro's) and one of the things I used to do with them before putting them on my cue lathe was to put them into a vice and squeeze them a bit before installing them. This seemed to resolve the 'inconsistency' problem with them people have mentioned. I never had a bad one doing this every time before installing them.
I personally still think a synthetic would work beautifully and predictably. Here's what I do sort of know. That Durometer scale that cue tip makers are using to measure the hardness of the leather is not a scale developed for measuring leather hardness. It's meant to measure rubber and plastics hardnesses. As far as I know and after asking a ton of leather tanneries there is no actual leather hardness "scale" per se. There are rebound/resiliency testers that I personally think would be a better measure of performance but again, nothing specifically for leather. The way I look at it and it's just my opinion when we say a tip is such and such a hardness that fine but compared to what? There really is no standard that I'm aware of. Comparing leather hardness to a shopping cart wheel or a tire is quite literally the old comparing of apples to oranges. I think the Janka scale for measuring wood hardness would be more accurate in the long run since that material pretty much runs the gamut from soft like a balsa to super hard like a lignum vitae. Also there are quite a number of books on the mechanical properties of woods to include modulus of elasticity which might be a good measure for tips. Plus the Janka scale runs from 100 up to roughly 3700. That's a huge scale in which fit tip hardness.
There are said to be 12 different Shore scales according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shore_durometer but none of the "everyday materials" is leather. I've seen some tip hardness charts that quote Shore C........NO clue what that is. I would love to see a standard developed one day so we're all on the same page and manufacturers can quote actual numbers instead of a generalized scale that doesn't relate. To me the numbers most are using is about as exact as small, medium and large when you order a pizza. Soft, medium and hard tip.......compared to
There are said to be 12 different Shore scales according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shore_durometer but none of the "everyday materials" is leather. I've seen some tip hardness charts that quote Shore C........NO clue what that is. I would love to see a standard developed one day so we're all on the same page and manufacturers can quote actual numbers instead of a generalized scale that doesn't relate. To me the numbers most are using is about as exact as small, medium and large when you order a pizza. Soft, medium and hard tip.......compared to
Shore 00
- Marshmallow: 10 Shore 00
- Gel Insole: 30 Shore 00
Shore A
- Rubber Band: 20 Shore A
- Mouse Pad: 30 Shore A
- Inner Tube: 40 Shore A
- Pencil Eraser: 50 Shore A
- Tire Tread: 60 Shore A
- Shoe Sole: 70 Shore A
- Leather Belt: 80 Shore A
- Phone Cord: 90 Shore A
Shore D
- Textbook Cover: 40 Shore D
- Golf Ball: 50 Shore D
- Shopping Cart Wheel: 60 Shore D
- Wooden Ruler: 70 Shore D
- Computer Case: 80 Shore D
- Bone: 90 Shore D
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
It's hard to believe that something to replace the leather tip hasn't come to market by now. The shoe heel looks like it would make for an interesting experiment!
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A little late to the thread but we used to take a new LePro tip turn it on it's side and bite down on it. Some would split and come apart, some wouldn't.
Thanks for the info. I ordered a box. Looks like some snacking is in the cards very soon.
Howdy;
How hard do ya chomp on'em? I used to chew-up jaw breakers after awhile. Granted, It was just chippin' away at'em
but they didn't last much longer then 20 - 30 minutes.
hank
I'm a triangle guy if... If I'm dealing with someone decent I ask for pressed.. soft tips become hard.. hard tips stay hard.. I prefer consistency... I shoot A LOT of pool... I haven't used a shaper in over a decade.. Triangle tips and master chalk... They got it right a long time ago.. and it's still right!
I have always been curious as to how a tip made from vulcanized rubber would play on a cue.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
Would be interesting to see this thing about tips come full circle and the preferred tip be a single layer again. Don't know if that will happen but stranger things have happened. Still think that there must be an alternative to the leather tip after all these years but no one seems to have come up with yet.
I've tried many layered tips of all kinds of brands. What I have found is that yes they last longer, hold shape a little better. However, I think, that because of the layers and because of the glue that they do not hold chalk very well compared to single layer tips. All the layered tips I have had to take extra care to make sure the tip was covered in chalk and it comes off very easy. I went back to Triangle and Elkmaster several years ago and I am much happier. They eat chalk and I never miscue, they don't glaze and I really don't even need to chalk every time and I use Masters.
They don't last as long but they feel better hitting the ball and the other aspects I mentioned. Both types work for lots of folks so pick your poison and enjoy.
They don't last as long but they feel better hitting the ball and the other aspects I mentioned. Both types work for lots of folks so pick your poison and enjoy.
Layered tips will always be, all the rage now. With new ones endlessly coming onto the market. But I think you can't beat single layer. Thay are just as consistent, it just comes down to finding a good one.hope more guys come back, to use these tips in the future.
That's because pool players are some of the biggest suckers on the planet. They too easily fall victim to endless marketing ploys and/or always wanting to copycat what some successful pro is using (who gets their stuff given to them by sponsors). $30 tips. $30 cubes of chalk. $400 shafts. $600 ball cleaners. $500 ball sets. $40 pool gloves. Need I go on???
First time in capitalism?
There's a huge market for 70k dollar 4 wheel drive trucks that never leave the pavement or haul a load. Singling out the relatively tiny pool accessory market is just a sliver of the whole.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
I have to agree, wasn't it P.T. Barnum who said "there's a sucker born every minute"? Will the most expensive multilayered tip mean the difference of you winning a tournament as opposed to using a single layered Le Pro tip? No it will not. Or will you wearing some expensive pool glove as opposed to no glove at all either.
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
I would recommend anyone wanting a single layer tip to give water buffalo a try. They are rated very hard but the leather surface has an open grain that really holds chalk and resists glazing and mushrooming. So in play they don't seem all that hard. Not particularly sexy at less than a buck a piece but are very consistent. The side wall is hard to make beautiful too as the leather is course. A box of 50 will result in 50 successful installs. And a lot of happy customers willing to try something different.
But of course everyone won't like them. These people are your best customers if changing tips is your bread and butter. They are always wanting to try the next greatest tip. For people who want to play good pool and not miscue a lot or fuss with their tips they are a great choice.
But of course everyone won't like them. These people are your best customers if changing tips is your bread and butter. They are always wanting to try the next greatest tip. For people who want to play good pool and not miscue a lot or fuss with their tips they are a great choice.
Very well said. Too meny forget, those guys with the black cues, fancy gloves,expensive tips.have been playing there whole lives. To get where thay are. You could give them any kind of equipment, and the result would be the same.
Over the last 7 or 8 years the big pool companys, with the players thay sponsor. have done a fantastic job, at promoting there stuff. If enough people belive it. It must be true!!
I had the same experience, thay sure are hard tips, but Thay play super consistent. And thay last a very long time.I had 3 of those, that where way better, than I thought.
I agree, but I think everything made that’s related to pool would fit in the back corner of an archery shop. Even the little plastic nocks on the end of the arrow that clips to the string have led’s in them. After being shot it will glow or blink for hours. Not to mention strings, sights, carbon arrows, arrow rests .. and we haven’t even gotten to the bows yet