SJM at the 2023 International Open

[skogstokig]

I think you've framed the argument well, but I think you've done it from the vantage point of a competitor. To me, the subject of alternate break is one in which what the players want must come second to what makes pool a more entertaining sport for the viewer.

As a fan, I like winner breaks better, but I understand where those who prefer alternate break are coming from.

Many on this forum would agree that the most electrifying pool moment we've seen in pool in our lives was when Wu Jiaqing came to the table down 16-12 and ran out the match for a 17-16 win in the World Pool Championships in 2005. That can't happen with alternate break. The fans like packages.

also shane's WC comeback against immonen last year, he was down by a lot but turned it around.

i suppose lil ko's semi at the US open could be a counter-argument, but yapp had turns at the table and what ko did is extremely rare.

 

[Flakeandrun]

I think you've framed the argument well, but I think you've done it from the vantage point of a competitor. To me, the subject of alternate break is one in which what the players want must come second to what makes pool a more entertaining sport for the viewer.

As a fan, I like winner breaks better, but I understand where those who prefer alternate break are coming from.

Many on this forum would agree that the most electrifying pool moment we've seen in pool in our lives was when Wu Jiaqing came to the table down 16-12 and ran out the match for a 17-16 win in the World Pool Championships final in 2005. That can't happen with alternate break. The fans like packages.

I see what you are saying, making and ensuring the game is a watchable entity where the fans are more involved and can visually see/add to the ebb and flow of emotions is important in sustaining the ability to host competition in the first place and foster interest from more players.

A complicated and important question regarding the game, almost philosophical, and with no real 'correct' answer.

 

[sjm]

I see what you are saying, making and ensuring the game is a watchable entity where the fans are more involved and can visually see/add to the ebb and flow of emotions is important in sustaining the ability to host competition in the first place and foster interest from more players.

A complicated and important question regarding the game, almost philosophical, and with no real 'correct' answer.

Yes, there's no correct answer, but we trust the event producers and directors to make these choices for us in the best interests of marketing the game.

 

[Flakeandrun]

Yes, there's no correct answer, but we trust the event producers and directors to make these choices for us in the best interests of marketing the game.

Whether we trust them or not, money talks. Sometimes we just have to deal with it, and be thankful the thing we love is alive and kicking, or not under-threat. As long as it doesn't betray the principles or reasons we love the game - then It's fine. I am new to American tables/pool, but my busy little brain has soaked up hours of YouTube, and played as many games and formats as it can muster. I see what's happening now as progressive. Unlike some of the other interests I have, where the core values/principles of the thing that is loved are undermined by money and corporate nonsense (e.g. the money driven worlds of skateboarding or photography (specifically 'modern' interest in film photography driven forward and propped up by people with no background, just funds. Marketing these things as 'lifestyle' with no real understanding of the culture or thoughts of their long-standing demographic. Damaging and re-shaping their rich and inclusive histories).

...Maybe I had one too many coffees this morning...

 

[Taxi]

I think Ko Ping Chung's whitewash of Yapp in the US Open semifinals was the single greatest performance of 2023, and it rates among the finest single-match performances that I've ever seen. The fact that it came on four-inch pockets makes it all the more remarkable.

At least for this fan, Yapp's performance against Gorst at the International was the second-best effort of the year. Also in the conversation is Kaci's 11-0 whitewash of Ko Pin Yi in the UK Open semifinals in June, which he followed up with a dominating 11-4 win over Filler in the final.

Dr Dave and I chatted about how watching the best doesn't guarantee that you'll see THEIR best but that sometimes you get lucky and you are right there at that special moment when it happens.

We sure have seen some great pool this year!

I agree that the Ko Ping Chung whitewash was the great performance of the year, but for the greatest tournament match I've ever seen in person, I have to go back to 2008, to a Planet Pool final at Champion Billiards in Shirlington, VA. It was played on a triple shimmed Gold Crown that was absolutely murder.

The final was a race to 13, and Manny Chau beat Matt Clatterbuck by 13 to 8, but what made it so memorable was that Manny didn't miss a single open shot in the entire match, while Matt missed only one. The only times either of them left the table were after a safe shot or a dry break.

IIRC Manny closed out the match with either a 5 pack or a 6 pack. I'd have paid serious money for a video of that match, but alas, it wasn't even live streamed. You had to be there, and I'm glad I was.

 

[maha]

all the died hard pool player viewers are going to watch anyway.

the question is what will the not so interested need to get involved and add to the tournament payouts and viewers, and money in general.

 

[sjm]

I agree that the Ko Ping Chung whitewash was the great performance of the year, but for the greatest tournament match I've ever seen in person, I have to go back to 2008, to a Planet Pool final at Champion Billiards in Shirlington, VA. It was played on a triple shimmed Gold Crown that was absolutely murder.

The final was a race to 13, and Manny Chau beat Matt Clatterbuck by 13 to 8, but what made it so memorable was that Manny didn't miss a single open shot in the entire match, while Matt missed only one. The only times either of them left the table were after a safe shot or a dry break.

IIRC Manny closed out the match with either a 5 pack or a 6 pack. I'd have paid serious money for a video of that match, but alas, it wasn't even live streamed. You had to be there, and I'm glad I was.

Great stuff. Thanks for sharing.

For me, it's the US Open 9-ball final of 2014. Dennis Orcullo shot 1.000 TPA in the early part of the match, forcing SVB to dig down deep and play what may have been the best match of his entire career, winning 13-10.

 

[sjm]

all the died hard pool player viewers are going to watch anyway.

the question is what will the not so interested need to get involved and add to the tournament payouts and viewers, and money in general.

Exactly right, and what you said is just another way of saying that what matters is what's best for marketing of the pro game.